Mid term Grades for Cerrato

[PlayAction]

Well the start of the problem is listening to Talk Radio. Who is your source Steve Czban? Colin Cowherd? Mike Golic?

John Riggens, DOC Walker. Both are of the opinion that this far into the season a rookie should be able to contribute. While a WR may not know all of the routes he should be able to master a few packages.

I don't expect these guys to be as good as the WRs that Denver and Philly drafted. But if they can only catch a handful of balls between the 3 pass catchers then we'll be lucky to match Gibbs' record of squeaking into the playoffs as the second wildcard. I am very hopeful that Kelly will live up to his reputation when he finally gets to play. If he doesn't show anything then the Skins are going to be mediocre for a few more years.

[HBnotBlades]

What that goes to show you is that when a rookie fails to help ANY in his rookie season... then he probably won't in year two either.

It also shows that when a rookie can play football... then he shows it usually in his first year... like Horton did... and like Thomas and Davis did NOT.

That's not even remotely true for receivers. The general rule is that receivers take 3 years to actually show what they can do. At the very least, more than one year. There are countless examples all over the league like Braylon edwards last year, roddy white this year, TO, our very own Santana, etc. the list goes on and on.

[HBnotBlades]

I don't expect these guys to be as good as the WRs that Denver and Philly drafted. But if they can only catch a handful of balls between the 3 pass catchers then we'll be lucky to match Gibbs' record of squeaking into the playoffs as the second wildcard. I am very hopeful that Kelly will live up to his reputation when he finally gets to play. If he doesn't show anything then the Skins are going to be mediocre for a few more years.

Remember, Thomas was drafted as a VERY raw prospect with the physical tools to become a dominant receiver later on. Virtually ever scout assumed he wouldn't contribute much his rookie season as he learned the NFL game. He needed significant work on his route running and didn't run a pro style system in his one successful year in college.

Kelly, on the other hand, is a very polished route runner with all the tools to be a dominant player now, IF he could stay healthy. Most teams believed he wouldn't be able to which is why we grabbed him in the 2nd.

[Metskins]

Yes, because grading a draft class the year after it was drafted ALWAYS shows the proper results... Let alone grading it in midseason.

You may be right, but give it some time.

Be a little bit more patient. Receivers generally take awhile to groom in the NFL. Some catch on quick, others take years, not weeks, to get comfortable. Relax. Sit back. Enoy the show.

The guy said it was a MIDTERM GRADE. He didn't say they were all destined to suck.

[JdoubleU]

Relax. Sit back. Enoy the show.

The 2nd Round Picks are taking your advice. 1st & 2nd round picks may not be immediate starters, but they are expected to contribute as 3rd or fourth receivers or DBs. Only QB's & O-linemen see constant action. D-lineman are rotated, RB's & LB's can be shuffled depending on down & distance.

The fact that these guys, not to mention vets like Taylor & E James, have given the Skins close to nothing speaks volumes about VC's ability to evaluate talent & character. Remember, Vinny is the guy who brought in Stubby, a mis-used J. Trotter, a complete waste of salary cap space in Michael Barrow, a past-their-prime B. Smith & Primetime, and the coach-killer Jeff George. He's worse than Casserly!

Let's also remember, the 49er's fall from grace was a result of Vinny putting them in Cap hell (Deion, Charles Mann, etc). Only Walsh's return gave them a short comeback (See TO & Garcia).

One Chris Horton can't offset the mountain of bad moves.

[Norvitis]

Cerrato deserves a big fat F-minus and a pink slip out of town, along with his mentor.

[JdoubleU]

Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell, Stephon Heyer (undrafted Free agent), LaRon Landry, Sean Taylor, Rocky McIntosh, Montgomery, Carlos Rogers, Chris Horton.

Other than Horton, these are Joe Gibbs' picks. Other than Horton, I don't think Vinny brought in one starter on either side of the ball. Casserly got Jansen & Samuels. I think the rest were brought in under Gibbs' watch.

[NAC386]

Can we let that go and focus on this year?

[celticsalmon]

I heard talk show host Vinny Cerrato tell a caller this week, that basically he's not interested in the draft right now-"the Seattle game is what is important." He'll think about the the draft in April. And therein lies the problem. The man is not doing his homework-so Vinny-you fail!

Hail....

[cphil006]

VInny's progress report.... F+

Only Horton has panned out so far and that was a shot in the dark, probably someone besides VInny scouted him...

But... in Vinny's defense... it is WAAAAAY... toooo early..

[morpheusmeyers]

Immediately following this April's draft many of the pundits declared us a big winner, and we received several A grades.

2a) Devin Thomas was generally regarded as the top receiver in this year's class and was a guy we were considering drafting at #21. We got him later and cheaper, and aquired another 2nd rounder in the process. Well done, imo.

He is now starting to see more playing time, and had a 3 catch game in his last outing. Too bad his long TD was called back.

I like his potential. He's a big target, with excellent speed for a WR his size. And he's a special teams contributor.

2b) Fred Davis was a head scratcher pick for me. I really wanted DT Trevor Laws, but the Eagles traded up to nab him one pick before us. I read somewhere that the Skins were targeting Laws. Oh well.

I like Davis's blend of size and speed, and I see him as a matchup nightmare when paired with Cooley in 2 TE sets. Am surprised we haven't seen more of him thus far. I think he will develop into a solid player in the next 1-2 years. Would rather have seen an OL, DT, or DE taken with this pick, though.

2c) Malcolm Kelly was regarded as the top receiver in this year's class up until a few weeks prior to the draft. I saw him mocked as high as #11 overall. And Kiper labeled him as the most NFL ready receiver in this year's class.

He's a polished route runner with excellent hands. And yes, he's tall.

He now appears 100% healthy, so we'll get to see a lot of him down the stretch. I loved this pick when we made it, and I still love it. He could be the steal of the draft. Just not yet.

3) Chad Rhinehart. Tough to get playing time as a rookie OL when you're a backup and the guy ahead of you is injury free. Coaches seem to like him and he showed promise in the preseason. I think he'll develop into a solid starter.

4) Justin Tryon. Didn't know much about this guy when we picked him. A lot of teams had a 6th round grade on him, so I think we reached a bit. He appeared lost at time in the preseason. Maybe he'll work out, but I'm not too hopeful. Coaches must see promise though, since they kept him over Matteral Richardson in the final roster cuts, and over Leigh Torrence recently.

I wanted OG Roy Schuening here.

6a) Durant Brooks. Was surprised we didn't go OL or DL here. My immediate reaction was "A Punter?" Too bad he didn't punt for us like he did back in college. Off the team so bust pick.

I wanted Barry Richardson OT Clemson here.

6b) Kareem Moore. Like M. Kelly, a value pick. He's got promise. Showed flashes in preseason. Contributes on special teams. I liked the pick when we made it, and I still like it.

6c) Colt Brennan. Another value pick. Should be the #2 next year.

7a) Rob Jackson. Didn't think he would make the team, and he did. Looked good in preseason. Don't have a good feel for what we've got yet. Would like to see him more.

7b) Chris Horton. Star of the draft thus far. Let's hope he continues his stellar play.

Outlook: This draft class has already produced a starter in C. Horton, a player that many thought wouldn't even make the team. And 9 draft picks are still on the roster. But with so much promise, it's been frustrating that we haven't seen more from our rookies, especially D. Thomas, M. Kelly, and F. Davis. Still, it takes time for rookies to develop. I'm confident they will, and that this year's A graded draft will be looked back on as one of our best ever.

[Shilsu]

For the 2008 draft? D.

For the 2008 season? B-.

[NoVaSkins21]

Yes, because grading a draft class the year after it was drafted ALWAYS shows the proper results... Let alone grading it in midseason.

You may be right, but give it some time.

Be a little bit more patient. Receivers generally take awhile to groom in the NFL. Some catch on quick, others take years, not weeks, to get comfortable. Relax. Sit back. Enoy the show.

Midseason may be early, but look at the impacts Giants' picks had last year on the team's performance. This team could have really made an impact with the 3 2nd round picks and instead chose players that were not ready to play or that they didn't really need with Fred Davis.

[dwbiggs]

Any Redskin exec that needs to have his ego stroked by having his own radio show needs to be shown the way out of Redskin Park. Work behind the scenes Vinny...nobody wants to hear your hyena laughing self.

[blucollarguy]

This is another pitiful thread. Not sure why there is any question why when returning all 22 starters, anyone would have thought there was ANY expectation that this year's rookie class would have some major impact. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

Did Cerrato succumb to the star power and ignore the existing talent on team? IMO

What "existing talent"? What was left after two players at the same position were lost for the season, on the same day, a day that also happened to be the FIRST DAY OF CAMP?

I didn't really like that trade, but I couldn't argue that it didn't make sense at the time considering the circumstances. I would have rather the coaches simply "made it work" without them, and held on to the draft picks, but Taylor's injuries were IN NO WAY PREDICTABLE and his history did NOT suggest this might happen. So the move was reasonable at the time.

And to suggest that because other teams have rookies contributing, doesn't make any of them an automatic success. It has been well documented that early success or failure does not indicate what any given player will do over the entirety of his career. Only time can do that, and passing judgement and "handing out grades" is fruitless, unless your just trying to lay blame, as it servers no other purpose.

[RalphZero]

The key here is trading a 2nd round pick for a 34 year old D-Lineman. (F) This tells me the Redskins are still looking for a quick-fix patch. I am sure Danny was involved in this bone-head trade also. Danny believes the team is 1 or 2 players and a head coach away from winning a Superbowl.

Signing the rookie punter and cutting the veteran punter, only to cut the rookie punter and signe a veteran punter who is not as good as the original veteran punter. (F)

The season started off good when the team was rested and healthy and the coach was unknown.

The defense is starting to break down because of the weak D-Line. There is to much pressure on the secondary. The O-Line is breaking down too. The Redskins will finish this season at 7-9, beating the Bengals.

Grade D-

[RalphZero]

I didn't really like that trade, but I couldn't argue that it didn't make sense at the time considering the circumstances. I would have rather the coaches simply "made it work" without them, and held on to the draft picks, but Taylor's injuries were IN NO WAY PREDICTABLE and his history did NOT suggest this might happen. So the move was reasonable at the time.

Trading a 2nd round draft pick for a 34 year old D-Lineman tells me 1 thing and only 1 thing....

Danny and Vincy honestly think the Redskins can win a superbowl this season with Jason Taylor. They are not building for the future.

Teams that are building will use their draft picks. Teams who feel they are 1 or two players away from winning a Superbowl will trade early round draft picks for veteran superstars.

What a big fat joke this is!!!!

[blucollarguy]

Trading a 2nd round draft pick for a 34 year old D-Lineman tells me 1 thing and only 1 thing....

Danny and Vincy honestly think the Redskins can win a superbowl this season with Jason Taylor. They are not building for the future.

Teams that are building will use their draft picks. Teams who feel they are 1 or two players away from winning a Superbowl will trade early round draft picks for veteran superstars.

What a big fat joke this is!!!!

You aren't seeing the whole picture. For one, have you watched any football this year? Frost is ranked as low as Brooks was before he was cut, like it or not, Brooks had upside, every one already knew what Frost was, and it hasn't changed one damn bit in Green Bay.

And the trade for Taylor was a reactionary issue, as I said, I didn't like it at the time, but I could understand it. There are nine drafted players still on this team, how can you say they aren't here for the future?

You define there entire offseason based on ONE move? Again, just doesn't make sense.

[texasthunder]

You aren't seeing the whole picture. For one, have you watched any football this year? Frost is ranked as low as Brooks was before he was cut, like it or not, Brooks had upside, every one already knew what Frost was, and it hasn't changed one damn bit in Green Bay.

And the trade for Taylor was a reactionary issue, as I said, I didn't like it at the time, but I could understand it. There are nine drafted players still on this team, how can you say they aren't here for the future?

You define there entire offseason based on ONE move? Again, just doesn't make sense.

I have to agree with you.

If JT had 4 or 5 sacks this year, we would never hear these negative comments. Its not the teams or Taylors fault injuries happen.

I sincerley doubt there will be any 2nd round lineman in next years draft that would make our starting roster.

The Redskins are the 5th best team over the last five years in the draft.

People that want to bash the FO after 10 games are just filled with discontent and it wont matter if we draft 8 players that turn out like Horton, their attitudes just wont change.

[blucollarguy]

I have to agree with you.

If JT had 4 or 5 sacks this year, we would never hear these negative comments. Its not the teams or Taylors fault injuries happen.

I sincerley doubt there will be any 2nd round lineman in next years draft that would make our starting roster.

The Redskins are the 5th best team over the last five years in the draft.

People that want to bash the FO after 10 games are just filled with discontent and it wont matter if we draft 8 players that turn out like Horton, their attitudes just wont change.

I couldn't have said it better myself. It will always be around, and it will never change.

[addicted]

Here is my assessment

Draft = Intelligence has been questioned on many draft picks. Draft picks weren't ready for training camp. Rookies can't get on the field. No one's produced for the rookie class except for one player. Rookies are being held onto while better players are being released. If it weren't for Horton our draft would grade F right now.

Free Agents = We lost our 2nd round pick next year and have a banged up old DE to show for it that doesn't fit our system. Our old offensive line was not addressed properly and it cost us games. Our backup QB who we targeted as our #1 priority looked lost when given the chance. And we offered 2 number one draft picks for an old WR on the decline of his career. About the only thing FA wise that looks to have any promise is maybe Denangelo Hall but we are likely going to be in another bidding war for him next year if he plays well. I can't think of any good FA moves.

Future = The 2009 free agents we have include three linemen who I'd like to see us resign (Evans, Golston, Montgomery) and Pete Kendall who although is old I think we need next year considering how poor our Oline has been playing. And Reed Doughty who I have a soft spot for. 2010 we are looking at needing to keep Jason Campbell, Chris Wilson, Rocky McIntosh and maybe Randy Thomas but nothings happened yet with any of these guys. The longer we wait to resign these people the more likely the price goes up.

Overall:

Cerrato did a bad job this year picking draft picks and free agents. History shows he's not been good at doing that in Washington. These pickups at the time seemed like good picks at the time but they always do. I believe one or two more bad years from Vinny and Snyder will be forced to replace him. Then again like some suggested here maybe these guys are just really slow developers? I just really hope that these guys all produce and earn there paychecks but if I were Snyder I wouldn't be happy with these results.

[cphil006]

Immediately following this April's draft many of the pundits declared us a big winner, and we received several A grades.

2a) Devin Thomas was generally regarded as the top receiver in this year's class and was a guy we were considering drafting at #21. We got him later and cheaper, and aquired another 2nd rounder in the process. Well done, imo.

2b) Fred Davis was a head scratcher pick for me. I really wanted DT Trevor Laws, but the Eagles traded up to nab him one pick before us. I read somewhere that the Skins were targeting Laws. Oh well.

2c) Malcolm Kelly was regarded as the top receiver in this year's class up until a few weeks prior to the draft. I saw him mocked as high as #11 overall. And Kiper labeled him as the most NFL ready receiver in this year's class.

Why didn't other teams draft him? He wasn't the first one selected. Eddie Royal would have been better at this point, but again... it is way too early.

Vinny keeps saying he was a first round TE. Well, why didn't other teams get him? Is Vinny just watching ESPN and going from there? He is not very informative.

too bad every team in the NFL passed on him for a reason except us. If his knee bothers him now, it's going to always bother him. It will always mysteriously swell and keep him injured. Horrible pick...

but again it's way too early.

3) Chad Rhinehart. Tough to get playing time as a rookie OL when you're a backup and the guy ahead of you is injury free. Coaches seem to like him and he showed promise in the preseason. I think he'll develop into a solid starter.

4) Justin Tryon. Didn't know much about this guy when we picked him. A lot of teams had a 6th round grade on him, so I think we reached a bit. He appeared lost at time in the preseason. Maybe he'll work out, but I'm not too hopeful. Coaches must see promise though, since they kept him over Matteral Richardson in the final roster cuts, and over Leigh Torrence recently.

6a) Durant Brooks. Was surprised we didn't go OL or DL here. My immediate reaction was "A Punter?" Too bad he didn't punt for us like he did back in college. Off the team so bust pick.

jury is still out on Reinhart. He hasn't played yet. His teammate in college was viewed as a better pro prospect.

Two guys we kept and cut veterans instead. VInny's ego wouldn't let him admit each of these picks were mistakes.

6b) Kareem Moore. Like M. Kelly, a value pick. He's got promise. Showed flashes in preseason. Contributes on special teams. I liked the pick when we made it, and I still like it.

6c) Colt Brennan. Another value pick. Should be the #2 next year.

7a) Rob Jackson. Didn't think he would make the team, and he did. Looked good in preseason. Don't have a good feel for what we've got yet. Would like to see him more.

7b) Chris Horton. Star of the draft thus far. Let's hope he continues his stellar play.

decent picks in the later rounds were shots in teh dark with Vinny receiving no credit.

Grade = D-... with room for improvement.

Grade may be changed at the end of next season... we should have a better understanding by then... again... it is WAY too early.

[PlayAction]

This is another pitiful thread. Not sure why there is any question why when returning all 22 starters, anyone would have thought there was ANY expectation that this year's rookie class would have some major impact. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

You presume that the 22 starters had enough talent. Everyone in the league knows that the Skins have a deficiency in talent at the #2 WR spot. The draft was supposed to address that need.

What "existing talent"? What was left after two players at the same position were lost for the season, on the same day, a day that also happened to be the FIRST DAY OF CAMP?

Demetric Evans plays LDE. He's not flashy. Now that Jason Taylor is healthy again the Skins seem to have decided that JT is a liability on 1st and 2nd down. JT would have been better suited to playing RDE a position which the Skins already had a starter (Andre Carter). If the Skins had traded for a LDE (non superstar) then there wouldn't be an issue to argue about.

And to suggest that because other teams have rookies contributing, doesn't make any of them an automatic success. It has been well documented that early success or failure does not indicate what any given player will do over the entirety of his career. Only time can do that, and passing judgement and "handing out grades" is fruitless, unless your just trying to lay blame, as it servers no other purpose. Talking about the Skins on this website serves no other purpose than talking about the Skins. Fans criticize - get over it.

[hobbie8046]

Donald Driver had 3 catches his rookie season.

Wes Welker didn't have a single catch his first two seasons.

Jerricho Cotchery only had 6 his first year.

My point is that the OP is wrong when they say you can always get a clue from a rookie's first year.

[PlayAction]

Donald Driver had 3 catches his rookie season.

Wes Welker didn't have a single catch his first two seasons.

Jerricho Cotchery only had 6 his first year.

My point is that the OP is wrong when they say you can always get a clue from a rookie's first year.

Are those the exceptions or the rule? Unfortunately, you will hear time and time again that pure physical talent is not enough for a player to make it in the NFL. They need to have the desire and the football smarts to adjust to the demands of pro-football. The comments coming out of Redskin park indicate that the coaches don't trust the rookies. They can't learn the playbook. They are not veterans but they should have been able to get down a number of the basic plays after 5 preseason games and 10 games of the regular season. Perhaps my expectations are too high. I hope you are right and all three of the rookie pass catchers make significant contributions in the future. (Kelly starting this weekend).