Mid term Grades for Cerrato

[elkabong82]

It's too early to grade the draft class. How long did it take Rogers to come around? What did Braylon Edwards, Robert Meachem, Reggie Wayne and others do their rookie years? Nothing. It's no secret rookie WRs take time to develop typically, most struggle picking up the playbooks just as a lot of rookies do. It doesn't mean they are dumb or the scouts did a bad job as some would like to assume.

And why are the draft and a couple player acquisitions the only things used to grade Cerrato at the midpoint? There is no mention of the hiring of Zorn or the promotion of Blache. And even in the draft itself nobody mentions we still pulled off good trades on draft day. Instead some people want to gripe about a 6th round punter and that our WRs don't look like Jerry Rice yet.

I think if you click on the Skins predictions link in my sig, and revisit what peoples expectations were at the start of the season, the overall grade might be higher.

[The Sisko]

Not only is it way too early to try to grade any of our draft picks, the same is without a doubt true of Cerrato. I've been tough on him over the years but I like what he did with our F.O. this offseason. Ditto that with our draft. Receivers take time to develop but once they start contributing you'll see our offense really take off.

Instead of trying to grade the Cerrato era 12 games into the season after his first draft, how about we reserve judgement on him until we see what he's been able to put together as a whole after three or four drafts?

[elkabong82]

Why didn't other teams draft him? He wasn't the first one selected. Eddie Royal would have been better at this point, but again... it is way too early.

Vinny keeps saying he was a first round TE. Well, why didn't other teams get him? Is Vinny just watching ESPN and going from there? He is not very informative.

too bad every team in the NFL passed on him for a reason except us. If his knee bothers him now, it's going to always bother him. It will always mysteriously swell and keep him injured. Horrible pick...

but again it's way too early.

jury is still out on Reinhart. He hasn't played yet. His teammate in college was viewed as a better pro prospect.

Two guys we kept and cut veterans instead. VInny's ego wouldn't let him admit each of these picks were mistakes.

decent picks in the later rounds were shots in teh dark with Vinny receiving no credit.

Grade = D-... with room for improvement.

Grade may be changed at the end of next season... we should have a better understanding by then... again... it is WAY too early.

Why didn't other teams get Horton? Desean Jackson wasn't the first WR taken, why didn't other teams get him first?

And late picks are a shot in the dark, so Vinny gets no credit? Gee, you all don't have any problem giving him the blame for Brooks.

Yes, every team passed on Kelly. Every team also passed on EVERY WR, given that one wasn't taken until the 2nd round when the Rams drafted Avery.

And Royal? Seriously? This board would have flipped their **** if we had taken a receiver under 6'0". We need big, tall WRs for the WCO, and we got the 2 best projected ones. Randle El isn't going to be here forever, Moss is a great WR, when healthy. We needed to bolster the redzone O for the future, and we took the best steps possible in the draft to do that. Kelly and Thomas could likely play in the NFL for a while, yet people are already jumping the gun on them just halfway past their first year. As others have said, many great WRs didn't do much their first year. You think our WRs are the only ones to ever struggle with a playbook? C'mon. Some of you are exaggerating just to fit your argument. Rogers didn't get on the field until halfway through his rookie year, Sean Taylor didn't start right away as a rookie, neither did Cooley, Santana Moss didn't do jack his rookie year, etc. Give them time fellas. Everyone wants us to build through the draft, yet so few seem to have patience with the development process. It's not an overnight thing guys.

[blucollarguy]

Rookies are being held onto while better players are being released.

Who was let go that's better?

And you really think Demetric Evans constitutes "talent ignored"? Really?? He's a hardworking, valuable BACKUP.

And it's fine to criticize, but how about somebody do it when it's due. Passing out grades on a test that isn't complete yet isn't exactly fair. How about we go back and grade every test you've ever taken about 15% into it, and then see how you do with it?

The SKins FO has done some pretty stupid stuff over the years, but the past two have been pretty good, and just because we don't have a rookie lighting up the league, doesn't mean they aren't any good or won't be in the future.

[Sonny9TD]

Yea Devin is a complainer so far, Malcolm is a tenderfoot, and Fred is dumb and sleepy.

[morpheusmeyers]

Why didn't other teams draft him? He wasn't the first one selected. Eddie Royal would have been better at this point, but again... it is way too early.

Vinny keeps saying he was a first round TE. Well, why didn't other teams get him? Is Vinny just watching ESPN and going from there? He is not very informative.

too bad every team in the NFL passed on him for a reason except us. If his knee bothers him now, it's going to always bother him. It will always mysteriously swell and keep him injured. Horrible pick...

decent picks in the later rounds were shots in teh dark with Vinny receiving no credit.

quote]

Regarding D. Thomas, he was considered the top WR. It was a surprise that the Rams took D. Avery. And like Elkabong stated, this board would have flipped out if we had taken E. Royal, a smallish receiver who was not rated as highly as Thomas.

Regarding F. Davis, yeah I've heard Vinny say that, too, that he had a 1st round grade on him. Like I said before, the pick was a bit of a headscratcher for me. But I do like the matchup problems that he can create when paired with C. Cooley in 2 TE sets.

Regarding M. Kelly, I don't see how you can claim that "If his knee bothers him now, it's going to always bother him." That's arguing that no player can ever return from injury. And his knee is apparently not bothering him now. As I stated before, M. Kelly was ranked as the top WR in this year's class up until a few weeks before the draft. I saw him mocked as high as #11 overall. And Kiper stated that he was the most NFL ready receiver in this year's draft. I loved this pick when we made it, and I still do.

Why shouldn't Vinny receive any credit for later round picks, like Horton?

[longball]

what about our old offesive line? how do we not see this as a weak point???

[illone]

There is only one grade right now, guys.

He's passing, clearly. Horton is a win, Hall is a win, and the rest of the draft we won't know for at least 2-3 years.

Jason Taylor is a fail, but if by some miracle he is able to be himself again for a few games then this might move to a nuetral.

[blucollarguy]

what about our old offesive line? how do we not see this as a weak point???

What does the offensive line have to do with grading this year's draft class?

With where the Skins picked, do you really think there is a linemen who would have beat out one of the current vets on the line for a starting job?

Sure, they needed to be looking for young linemen who can take over soon(should have been doing this every year), but this line is still easily a top 10 O-Line, and there is some depth there.

I think offensive and defensive linemen should be drafted EVERY year, the reality is that good O-Linemen CAN be made (coached into it), but the skill position players are much more difficult find, as well as the high quality D-Linemen.

[PlayAction]

Who was let go that's better?

And you really think Demetric Evans constitutes "talent ignored"? Really?? He's a hardworking, valuable BACKUP.

And it's fine to criticize, but how about somebody do it when it's due. Passing out grades on a test that isn't complete yet isn't exactly fair. How about we go back and grade every test you've ever taken about 15% into it, and then see how you do with it?

The SKins FO has done some pretty stupid stuff over the years, but the past two have been pretty good, and just because we don't have a rookie lighting up the league, doesn't mean they aren't any good or won't be in the future.

Perhaps Evans is a backup but that bolsters my point. The backup is getting the playing time over JT even when JT is healthy. JT is a great player but his skill set doesn't fit well with the Skins existing roster and scheme. He would have been a great fit if it was Andre Carter that had been injured.

If it's a multiple choice test you better get an A 15% of the way in to the test or you aren't going to get an A when the test is complete. But a mid-term grade is not final. It's mid-term. Schools give out quarterly grades (even mid quarter progress reports). Why the front office gets a pass is beyond me.

There's a difference between lighting up the league, making a meaningful contribution, and making NO contribution. Right now the rookie pass catchers have made NO contribution when there's been a dire need on the team. When a coach calls his rookies out several times during the season and ex-NFL players criticize them I think it's okay for a fan to do so as well. I don't put the blame on the coach. I blame the players and the front office for selecting them. "Just wait till next year or the year after that" is not very comforting given Skins history. 2 catches a game for each of two rookies would do wonders for the Skins offense.

[blucollarguy]

I guess this is the part I don't get: "dire need on the team." Dire need?

Their 6-4. No it's not OK either. But this is NOWHERE close to dire. That's ridiculous.

And JT hasn't been healthy yet, so how can you say he's starting over backup. Yeah, he's healthy now, but is he in game shape? No way. So it's big F'in "duh" that he wouldn't be set to start his first game back after being out so long. So, invalid point.(and BTW, I didn't like doing that trade to begin with, I UNDERSTOOD it, but I didn't like it).

And personally, I do put more of the "blame", if there is any, on the coaches for the rookies not playing more. I love what Zorn is doing overall, but I do see a very "Gibbsian" approach with the young players from him, and I think that has to change. Does anybody really think that these other guys(Royal, Jackson and so) aren't screwing up routes and assignments? Of course they are, the difference between them and the Skins is that Zorn and his staff apparently don't believe they need them on the field on order to win. And up until recently at least, they were OBVIOUSLY right.

Now it's just not so obvious. So we question the decisions. And that's fine, but to judge the draft before the first year is even over is lunacy. And, if 15% of the test is enough for YOU to pass or fail, then I can only expect you don't finish many tests. I don't intend for the FO to get a PASS, I just expect it to be done fairly and accurately, and the whole "grading" thing for ANY rookie has always irritate me because it is so pointless and seriously lacks any possibility of accuracy.

I liked the draft, I thought more effort could have been made to go after either a LB or OL of quality in the second round. There were no Dlinemen I thought were worth it once Miami took Merling. But when one looks at how difficult it is to select WRs correctly, trying two very highly rated WRs with ONE pick(the 21st pick became 2 of the three 2nd round picks and more) they increased their chances of hitting on at least ONE very good one. I'm ok with that. It's called preparing for the future.

[zCommander]

Good thread. I will give it let's C what happens after the season is over.

[scruffylookin]

F

No credit for Zorn since they wanted Cowher and others before being forced to settle on Zorn. Besides the whole process was a cluster.....ah mess. Hiring assistants and coordinators before a coach was in place. Just terrible.

We came out of 2007 in need of upgrading the Oline, the pass rush and the receiving corps.

We added Rinehart to the oline and he can't even contribute. And before anyone says, "he wasn't supposed to contribute this year" that arguement is null and void when a rookie free agent like Stephon Heyer could come in and help last year.

Not a single move made on the Dline until injuries hit and then he panicked and made a "Duckett part 2" deal. I hate saying that because I do like Jason Taylor and I wish him well in his post football career, but we should not have traded a 2nd for him.

Our receivers are the same as last year and the year before (minus another offseason gem, Brandon Lloyd). Moss, ARE, Thrash. I know people are now making the excuse that "nobody expects rookie receivers to contribute their first year" and I say bs. You can't tell me the plan was to have Moss, ARE and Thrash be our top three for 2008. No way. And if that was the plan.............the FO still gets an F for thinking that was a good idea.

Only 2 notable draft picks.

Colt was a Zorn pick and Horton was luck.

Just like the Pats got lucky 8 years ago that their 6th round QB turned into the best QB in the NFL, the Skins I'm sure are shocked by how good Horton has been coming out of UCLA. He was supposed to be just another Kareem Moore type of contributor. Nothing more, so no, I'm not giving Cerrato credit for being clarivoyant and seeing that Horton was going to be this good.

[str8jacket]

Yeah, too early to judge. Kind of disappointed in the our first few picks so far and pleasantly suprised with Chris Horton. But they are young and receiver typically takes time to develop.

[str8jacket]

Some of the moves they have made have been good some bad but i am damn glad we have an orginization that at least trys to get us the guys who can get it done. Otherwise, we could be like the detroit lions. So props to Cerrato and Snyder they at least have shown me they want to win.

[blucollarguy]

F

A: No credit for Zorn since they wanted Cowher and others before being forced to settle on Zorn. Besides the whole process was a cluster... (snip)

B: We came out of 2007 in need of upgrading the Oline, the pass rush and the receiving corps.

We added Rinehart to the oline and he can't even contribute... (snip)

C: Only 2 notable draft picks.

Colt was a Zorn pick and Horton was luck.

... (snip)

A: I have never heard them say anything about being forced to settle on Zorn. What I have heard(and read) is one or two individuals say that a "source" told them this. There has NEVER been anybody stand up and agree with it. Not even Spags. Rather, the story is that they "had a feeling" about Zorn from the beginning, and as time went on, that feeling never went away, and since NONE of the other interviews "blew them away" they decided to give Zorn a shot. If that isn't what happened, then someone should step up with some balls and say so rather than hiding behind the "source" crap.

B: I'm not sure they felt they needed to "upgrade" the o-line or receiving corps. The pass rush for sure, but it wasn't a big priority(something I did disagree with). Considering the injuries to O-Linemen last year, and the fact that they still ran the ball well and handled pass protection fairly well, they didn't need to "upgrade", they needed to prepare for the future and maintain good depth. They did a little of the future work, and still have good depth. The WRs is another issue, again, the didn't need to "upgrade" 'per sey', but re-vamp the corps to fit Zorn's style/system. I don't think there was expectation that they would come in and take over starter's duty(Zorn said early on that he'd be shocked if they did), but there was certainly expectations that they would be contributing at least some by now. Disappointing that they haven't, but there is still time for that to change.

C: This is another point that just doesn't make any sense. You want to nail the FO for not picking well(or the right guys or whatever), but then say it's all "luck" when they do. I know this fits your need to validate your hatred for Snyder/Cerrato, but that doesn't make it right or a valid point. Cerrato was working with Gibbs while they drafted, what, 6-8 or more current starters, but he gets no credit right? But all the busts are his fault right? The same with free agents too?

These are just the same arguments over and over with the same responses over and over.

Some of us don't think it's time to judge any of it and think the direction has been set(at least to some extent) and that's good, with some guys with HIGH UPSIDE for the future.

Others think they somehow were supposed to draft a bunch of guys who were going to come in and take over starting roles right away, and be some major improvement on the team. And at the same time, we can't forget mistakes that happened two, three or more years ago while there are many other things that were good.

This is ridiculous in my opinion, but, hey, like a few other things, everyone has opinions.

Some just stink more than others

[Mr. Blitz]

Do we give Cerrato any credit for hiring Jim Zorn? Or does that all go to Dan?

Credit for hiring Zorn?? I think that is the same as trying to grade the draft class. 10 games in you just can't make the call yet. Wait until we play the schedule out and make judgement. This is a very telling time for Zorn. I hope he does well...BUT as of late we have not looked like a playoff team. That is why they play 16 games. Bottom line....you can't make any judgements yet on the draft class or new Head Coach.

However... I will say this... what is the only thing that hasn't really changed since Dan bought the team? Answer: Vinny.

Personally, I like Dan as an owner...but Marty did the right thing by getting rid of Vinny for one year...then Marty is canned and Vinny is back. We have changed coaches and players...but never hired a top GM that we can bring in here. This franchise is one of the elite teams in the NFL. There are top GMs that we could get to build this team into a year in year out playoff team with a few home playoff games.