Number 5 Honesty Thread....Reid and McNabb...Gotta Go!!!!1

[zoony]

I still think you eagle fans are over-reacting a bit. Sheesh, come see us when you've strung together 5 or 6 losing seasons in a row. Until then, :stfu:

[BillyKilmer]

I still think you eagle fans are over-reacting a bit. Sheesh, come see us when you've strung together 5 or 6 losing seasons in a row. Until then, :stfu:

and may those seasons begin soon

[OWUeagleMD]

I still think you eagle fans are over-reacting a bit. Sheesh, come see us when you've strung together 5 or 6 losing seasons in a row. Until then, :stfu:

You are probably right, and I'm aware that things in this league are almost never as bad as they seem and that the Eagles have still managed to win 5 games out of 9 despite my insanely negative opinion of the team.

However, the basis of my opinion is that the team's talent level is too low. I'm not reacting to McNabb's supposed exhaustion, or Reid's callous post-game interview, or even the frustration of learning to no longer be the division's odds-on favorite.

My reaction is absolutely nothing more than a dispassionate look at the roster and the subsequent realization that the talent level is not high enough to win in this league.

It's not hard to change that fact, and it won't take long. It will, however, require the admission that the guys we've got now aren't good enough.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I don't care what situation the Eagles are in when they come to Giants Stadium. These two teams always get up to play one another. I would take nothing for granted when the Eagles come to town no matter their position.

[pointyfootball]

I still think you eagle fans are over-reacting a bit. Sheesh, come see us when you've strung together 5 or 6 losing seasons in a row. Until then, :stfu:

I agree. It's maddeningly frustrating to watch them lately, and it's obvious that AR & Co. can't overcome a team that has some glaring deficiencies (S, TE, G, DTs) with better game plans and game decisions. However, they had NO business being in either game against the Cowboys or Giants, yet they were at the end. There is no such thing as moral victories and this isn't U-8 soccer where we can be proud of them for being competitive. But, considering that this team is an average team right now, for them to put up 31 on the Giants is quite a feat.

The problem with the Eagles the past few years is that they've become the proverbial Dutch boy with plugging the holes in the dyke with his fingers. Last year it was the special teams, McNabb's injury and CB health/play that was hurting the team. This year, they lose their best OL (which IMO has affected the team more than anything else), their safeties are awful and they can't move the ball 1 yard when needed.

I like AR a lot, even though he drives me insane like many of you. I think some of us Eagle fans have to be careful in what we wish for because there are more Rich Kotites and Buddy Ryans out there than there are AR. As much as we might hate him at times, what he's done in Philly is more than any other coach before him, even Vermeil.

What I DESPISE about AR is his GM responsibilities. The only way I want to see him continue is if he/Lurie agree to hire a TRUE GM and do a Stalin-esque purge of the player personnel & scouting department. Otherwise, I don't have a lot of hope for the next 2 years, as AR's contract runs until 2011 I believe.

No matter what, assuming the Eagles continue their plunge down the path of mediocrity, there almost has to be drastic changes. Trading McNabb, assuming a good deal can be found, becomes a priority. They're going to have to be major players in the FA market due to their significant needs on OL after this year. The defense is the biggest challenge because it's getting annihilated. 36 freaking points at home?

PF

[barens2]

You are probably right, and I'm aware that things in this league are almost never as bad as they seem and that the Eagles have still managed to win 5 games out of 9 despite my insanely negative opinion of the team.

However, the basis of my opinion is that the team's talent level is too low. I'm not reacting to McNabb's supposed exhaustion, or Reid's callous post-game interview, or even the frustration of learning to no longer be the division's odds-on favorite.

My reaction is absolutely nothing more than a dispassionate look at the roster and the subsequent realization that the talent level is not high enough to win in this league.

It's not hard to change that fact, and it won't take long. It will, however, require the admission that the guys we've got now aren't good enough.

Your defense is ranked 9th in the league, and that's after the Giant game. I don't see a lack of talent there, and despite your moaning and groaning, you have a very good rotation of defensive tackles. I'm not sure why you don't like Asante Samuel...he pretty much shut down Plax.

The reason why you're running game wasn't up to par, was because Westbrook has broken ribs and an ankle problem, and you're missing Shawn Andrews. Plus, how many times has McNabb been sacked this season? 6 times? DeSean Jackson is sick.

I'd say the talent is there, you don't need pro-bowlers at every position to be successful. To me, it's either the coach, or it's you're QB, who hasn't gotten the job done in the final minutes of countless games.

[OWUeagleMD]

Your defense is ranked 9th in the league, and that's after the Giant game. I don't see a lack of talent there, and despite your moaning and groaning, you have a very good rotation of defensive tackles. I'm not sure why you don't like Asante Samuel...he pretty much shut down Plax.

The reason why you're running game wasn't up to par, was because Westbrook has broken ribs and an ankle problem, and you're missing Shawn Andrews. Plus, how many times has McNabb been sacked this season? 6 times? DeSean Jackson is sick.

I'd say the talent is there, you don't need pro-bowlers at every position to be successful. To me, it's either the coach, or it's you're QB, who hasn't gotten the job done in the final minutes of countless games.

I do like Asante Samuel, I've said a number of times that he's one of two (maybe three) top tier players on our roster. He's a stud, worth every penny he received this offseason.

Offensive and defensive rankings mean nothing. We were ranked int he top ten in both measures last year, too. Those rankings pay no attention to a team's ability to make a play when the game is on the line, something the Eagles haven't been able to do for two years running.

Westbrook is healthy enough to pick up a yard when we need him to. The fact that he (and Buckhalter) have been unable to do so in 11 out of 14attempts is indicative of an offensive line that cannot win at the point of attack. Sure, the Andrews absence plays a role in that. But so does Jamaal Jackson's failure in making line calls (a fact that Tra Thomas has acknowledged on air) and so does Todd Herremans' inadequacy as an offensive guard. And, frankly, with the number of draft picks we've used on offensive linemen over the years, I'd hope that we'd have depth that is capable of weathering the storm presented by one (1) injury. To expect complete health across the line is illogical; teams need to be able to overcome the loss of one guy. Of course, this doesn't even consider the fact that the Eagles have a defensive tackle playing fullback, another failure in talent evaluation (Luke Lawton, Tony Hunt, Jason Davis, et al).

I'd love to believe that it's as simple as poor coaching or disapointing QB play. By comparison, those are very easy things to fix. But really, the problem is, the guys on this team simply aren't good enough. Plenty of national voices with an eye to personel evaluation (as opposed to guys like Schlereth, Wingo, Boomer, Jackson, etc. who merely provide snap judgements) have said that the Eagles are a team that lacks talent.

[SonnyJ]

For all the praise the Eagles get for their drafts year in and year out, they really don't have a great track record.

They are considered a great drafting team because they completely adhere to the Draftnik Bible. Accumulate lots of picks. Trade down for even more. When in doubt, draft a lineman. Make sure you win the value rating perception in any deal.

The problem is, the Draftnik Bible doesn't concern itself with what happens after the draft. As OWU has so starkly outlined, most of their draft picks just aren't very good. Actually, I wouldn't say they aren't very good. They may be fine as supporting cast members. The problem is, there is, as OWU pointed out, very little in the way of difference-making talent on the team. They are well-coached, which I think shows when they are playing poorer teams. The Eagles consistently beat the snot out of those teams. But their lack of difference-makers shows when they play better teams and can't just rely on out-executing the opponent.

For crying out loud, the LT and (deteriorating) face of the defense were drafted BEFORE the AR regime even got to Philly. Not to mention that the RT is a FA picked up many years ago and they've been trying to replace for 5 years. These are the type of players, according to the Eagle model, that should have been moved out to pasture many seasons ago. But they still play pivotal roles. It's not good to be a team that builds through the draft but isn't very good at it.

Really, the best of all for the Eagles would be AR relinquishing his personnel power to someone else (supposedly one who is competent). I just don't see AR firing himself and I doubt Lurie 1) deposes AR the GM and keeps him as coach, and 2) would crowbar his wallet open widely enough to pay top executive dollars to two guys. Still, even though the Eagles seem to be well-coached (in general, not getting into specifics of play-calling strategies and tactics), it's been said that each coach has a shelf life with a team. I wonder if AR and staff are hitting their expiration date with the Eagles? :whoknows:

[dockeryfan]

What I DESPISE about AR is his GM responsibilities. The only way I want to see him continue is if he/Lurie agree to hire a TRUE GM and do a Stalin-esque purge of the player personnel & scouting department.

Not going to change as long as the cast of characters looks like this:

[pointyfootball]

Not going to change as long as the cast of characters looks like this:

Seriously...how can you not laugh at Spadaro's pic? That is classic.

[OWUeagleMD]

Is there any official team website guy who gets as much attention as Dave Spadero?

That dude is villified on WIP everyday and referred to among Eagles fans as a symptom of the misinformation and excuse-making that plagues the Andy Reid administration.

Is there another guy of his ilk anywhere in the league?

[dockeryfan]

Seriously...how can you not laugh at Spadaro's pic? That is classic.

That's not Spads. This is Spewdaro.

From Left to Right:

Andy Reid, Exectutive VP football operations

Howie Roseman VP Player Personnel non football guy

Tom Heckert GM

Joe Banner Emperor of the Universe pencil pusher meddler

[Roger.Staubach]

I do like Asante Samuel, I've said a number of times that he's one of two (maybe three) top tier players on our roster. He's a stud, worth every penny he received this offseason.

Offensive and defensive rankings mean nothing. We were ranked int he top ten in both measures last year, too. Those rankings pay no attention to a team's ability to make a play when the game is on the line, something the Eagles haven't been able to do for two years running.

Westbrook is healthy enough to pick up a yard when we need him to. The fact that he (and Buckhalter) have been unable to do so in 11 out of 14attempts is indicative of an offensive line that cannot win at the point of attack. Sure, the Andrews absence plays a role in that. But so does Jamaal Jackson's failure in making line calls (a fact that Tra Thomas has acknowledged on air) and so does Todd Herremans' inadequacy as an offensive guard. And, frankly, with the number of draft picks we've used on offensive linemen over the years, I'd hope that we'd have depth that is capable of weathering the storm presented by one (1) injury. To expect complete health across the line is illogical; teams need to be able to overcome the loss of one guy. Of course, this doesn't even consider the fact that the Eagles have a defensive tackle playing fullback, another failure in talent evaluation (Luke Lawton, Tony Hunt, Jason Davis, et al).

I'd love to believe that it's as simple as poor coaching or disapointing QB play. By comparison, those are very easy things to fix. But really, the problem is, the guys on this team simply aren't good enough. Plenty of national voices with an eye to personel evaluation (as opposed to guys like Schlereth, Wingo, Boomer, Jackson, etc. who merely provide snap judgements) have said that the Eagles are a team that lacks talent.

good post and I agree with a lot of it...especially the part about the picking up one yard (Barry Switzer, anyone?). when it's third and one or fourth and one, a *good* team should be able to pick it up 11 out of 14 times, not the reverse.

I will say that if your team had been playing in the NFC West, or any other weaker division, that you'd probably not be singing the blues right now.

[[[ghost]]]

And McNabb.....look, I smoke at least 3 bags of green a day and after I run 15 yards, I don't need a timeout.

:rotflmao:

[zoony]

Now one thing I will say about the Eagles Front Office is that there are too many chiefs. They were talking about this on NFL Radio the other day- basically 4 or 5 people doing the same job. Nothing getting done thru gridlock, and no accountability when things go bad.

[Roger.Staubach]

Now one thing I will say about the Eagles Front Office is that there are too many chiefs. They were talking about this on NFL Radio the other day- basically 4 or 5 people doing the same job. Nothing getting done thru gridlock, and no accountability when things go bad.

Sounds like any U.S. Government agency.

[No_Pressure]

Really, the best of all for the Eagles would be AR relinquishing his personnel power to someone else (supposedly one who is competent). I just don't see AR firing himself and I doubt Lurie 1) deposes AR the GM and keeps him as coach, and 2) would crowbar his wallet open widely enough to pay top executive dollars to two guys. Still, even though the Eagles seem to be well-coached (in general, not getting into specifics of play-calling strategies and tactics), it's been said that each coach has a shelf life with a team. I wonder if AR and staff are hitting their expiration date with the Eagles? :whoknows:

IMO They would be much better off if he left altogether. They have the pieces in place to be a great run oriented balanced attack. The reason the Eagles are so streaky is because McNugget drops back 40 times per game and Westbrook can't always get the short yardage. I mean throw aside all those completely true things you said about how they draft- they had the most success as a team those years when they at least mixed in a power back and ran the ball down people's throats at least a few times per game.

Seriously, I think that if they just got a tough minded coach in there that drafted a RB next season that is somewhere around 240 pounds and gave him at least 100-200 carries while working Westbrook in 50% and using different formations they would be a great team. They have adequate players to be a top 15 defense in this league even if Dawkins is on the decline, 2 linebackers aren't cut out to start, and the other safety sucks. The thing that makes and breaks the Eagles is the ability to grind out 1st downs, control the time of possession, and beat up defenses. Andy Reid doesn't do it. He flat out does not do it. Westbrook goes out and catches 5 screens per game and either gets stuffed on 3rd down or breaks the 1 outstanding 20 yard highlight reel run and it looks flashy and he has great stats but the plan for stopping the Eagles has been the same since 2005- chase down Westbrook because nobody else is really good enough to beat you.

McNabb...he can still play, but he is better when the game isn't put on his shoulders. Seriously, he has 324 pass attempts through 9 games this season. He is on pace to throw the ball what...620 times or something? Even Peyton Manning has never attempted that many passes in a season. At the same time the Eagles as a team have run the ball 221 times and that includes 22 scrambles from McNabb, 3 from Kolb. From their running backs and WR's that means the Eagles have thrown 324 times, and run 196 times. The ratio of passes to handoffs to the running back is worse with 324 to 185. The Eagles lose games because they don't run the ball, they don't have anybody who can pound a defensive line, and Andy Reid is a panzy playcaller.

If they wanted to succeed it's simple, start bruising other teams on offense and stop throwing the ball almost 2:1 over handing off to a back. McNabb can't handle having the game in his hands, Westbrook can't pound a defense...what the hell do they have that MASSIVE offensive line for? All they ever do is drop back or throw screens.

[OWUeagleMD]

A bruising running game does not require a large running back. Point in case: the Washington Redskins.

Jean-Gilles is a huge guard, but he hasn't generated any push in the running game.

Jackson is a huge man in the middle, but he's at his best when he's leading the way on screens.

Todd Herremans is a left tackle playing guard. He has great technique in the passing game, but I've never seen him gain leverage on a defensive tackle.

The weight of the Eagles offensive line is misleading. They aren't great run blockers (at least not based on how they've played this year).

[No_Pressure]

A bruising running game does require an every down back who is durable. Portis is fairly durable but he gets dinged up often. Westbrook is very tough for his size but he gets hurt too often with his already light load, he wouldn't be able to survive a 300+ carry season for all 16 games. Buckhalter flat out isn't good enough.

Every lineman in the NFL should be able to run block at the very least. Maybe they just don't seem to have that push because they don't have the scheme, or don't have the mentality. I refuse to believe that an offensive line like the Eagles have can't control the line of scrimmage if they want to, they just need to actually commit to the running game.

Honestly, if the Eagles went out next year and drafted a guy like Chris Wells or PJ Hill to take 200-250 carries, give Westbrook 100-150 I think they would be much better off.

[dockeryfan]

People seem to forget that at one time McNabb was a huge threat to run.

That doesn't exist anymore either.

[dockeryfan]

Every lineman in the NFL should be able to run block at the very least. Maybe they just don't seem to have that push because they don't have the scheme, or don't have the mentality.

Or maybe don't practice it as much? Have you ever noticed that the run blocking improves as the game goes on, and it doesn't matter if they're winning or losing? The Eagles line just does not focus on running.

[No_Pressure]

Or maybe don't practice it as much? Have you ever noticed that the run blocking improves as the game goes on, and it doesn't matter if they're winning or losing? The Eagles line just does not focus on running.

Exactly, I remember watching Bill Cowher a few weeks ago on one of those NFL shows talking about the year that they decided to start airing it out in Pittsburgh instead of being a run-first team, and their line lost it's identity and toughness- when they did try to run the ball they couldn't pound away like they normally did, he thought it was a mentality thing though.

It is no secret though that Reid doesn't run the ball like he should. You can't have almost a 2:1 ratio of passing to handing the ball off to a RB and expect to be on top of your division. especially a division as physical as the nfc east is.

[tr1]

People seem to forget that at one time McNabb was a huge threat to run.

That doesn't exist anymore either.

Agreed.

And, he was a very elusive runner.

Not anymore.

[OWUeagleMD]

Agreed.

And, he was a very elusive runner.

Not anymore.

Father time gets to us all.

[Big Weirdo]

Nothing changes until Stay Puft gets ousted. A true GM? Please, Andy could screw up the '72 Dolphins.