Guest sith lord Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Nobody is saying that this is still Gibbs' team, not really. But you have to admit that Zorn is coaching Gibbs' players. I mean, how much has the roster really changed since JG retired again? You can argue about the draft picks, and yes, those are Zorn's, but the core of the team (CP, SM, JC, the defence with exception of Horton, etc) are all Gibbs' people. Heck, even the running system is the same. I know you (sith) have a low opinion of Gibbs 2.0 (from reading prior posts), so I don't expect an honest appraisal. But the proper analysis is that Zorn is indeed fortunate that he has the team Gibbs built, and he can (and I expect will) take them further than JG could. Again, Zorn brought in the cookbook, but the ingredients were provided by Joe Gibbs. But what's the point? OK, Gibbs brought in most the players, but it's Zorn who's getting the most out of them. I think when you guys keep constantly bringing up Gibbs, it underminds Zorn. The man already have the Gibbs shadow hanging over him, why make it worse? PS. I totally disagree about the running system being the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is Zorn's team now, not Gibbs'. Get over it. You're missing the point my friend. Is it really that much of a stretch to suggest that part of the success Zorn is enjoying is attributable to the team Gibbs assembled? In other words, would Coach Zorn have the Detroit Lions at 5-2 right now? I'm not taking anything away from Zorn...I think he's a hell of a coach and the PERFECT man for the job. I'm just saying that Gibbs constructed a quality team for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're missing the point my friend. Is it really that much of a stretch to suggest that part of the success Zorn is enjoying is attributable to the team Gibbs assembled? In other words, would Coach Zorn have the Detroit Lions at 5-2 right now?I'm not taking anything away from Zorn...I think he's a hell of a coach and the PERFECT man for the job. I'm just saying that Gibbs constructed a quality team for him. Again, we know that. But what's the point in keep bringing it up? Does Greg Williams get credit for putting this defense together? I mean, Williams' defense was way better than Gibbs' offense during Gibbs II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is Zorn's team now, not Gibbs'. Get over it.If Zorn is OK with giving credit to Gibbs for assembling the talent, why are you so against it?Zorn said the cupboard wasn't bear thanks to Gibbs. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemsSC7Skinfan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is Zorn's team now, not Gibbs'. Get over it. You take some of the bad with the good that is freedom of speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 If Zorn is OK with giving credit to Gibbs for assembling the talent, why are you so against it?Zorn said the cupboard wasn't bear thanks to Gibbs. Get over it. No one's against giving credit to Gibbs, but it has already been done to death. Lets move on. It's all about Zorn now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goflyhelo Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 We just had a big "discussion" about Gibbs a couple of weeks ago.I stand by what I said and this is Gibbs team and Zorn is adding his touch. And whoever disagrees is crazy. Word up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Again, we know that. But what's the point in keep bringing it up? Does Greg Williams get credit for putting this defense together? I mean, Williams' defense was way better than Gibbs' offense during Gibbs II. Coach Gibbs had final say on all personnel decisions, so the buck stopped with him. With a few notable exceptions, Gibbs generally brought in high-character guys on both sides of the football. In fact, Gibbs was mocked by some fans for claiming that character is THE most important attribute he looks for in a player. But now he looks pretty smart in that respect, when you look at the mess that's unfolding in Dallas. It could fairly easily be argued that Zorn is a better head coach at this very moment than Gibbs is. But that doesn't diminish the fact that Gibbs built a quality team full of guys with character, and that is contributing to Zorn's success. In other words, a football team is not successful or unsuccessful in a vacuum. Decisions made in the past impact a team's future. So to suggest that Gibbs doesn't have a hand in this team's success is just foolish and short-sighted. It's as foolish as suggesting that Parcells had nothing to do with the Cowboys going 13-3 last year. There are some who relentlessly bash Coach Gibbs as a Pavlovian response to threads like this. And there are others who defend Gibbs, because they know that despite his shortcomings over the last four years, he put this organization in a position to be sucessful. Gibbs was hired for a rescue mission. If you have any recollection of the Spurrier era, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Spurrier didn't even know half the players' names. As long as there are Gibbs bashers, there will be Gibbs supporters there to set the record straight about what he did here. He rescued the franchise from the cavernous depths it found itself in by bringing in the right kind of players and instilling the right kind of attitude in the team. Now, Zorn has an opportunity to take things to the next level, and he appears to be doing just that. So props to both of them. Again, I'm not taking anything away from Zorn. I've said many times that he's the perfect man for the job. I'm giving both men credit, and I'm sorry if that hurts people's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 i thought he did an amazing job. 2 palyoffs in 4 years.Not as bad as the "paloffs" gaffe, but this one doesn't bode well for you.:doh:Sorry, couldn't resist...:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 you cant really say he didnt get the most out of them. The game is a whole different animal these days. Zorn is a younger coach with experience in the "new" NFL. I dont think Gibbs holds any kind of jealousy. He knew the game had progressed and wasnt the same that it was when he DOMINATED... yes DOMINATED the league. Nothing can be taken away from the man, and you gotta admit... he did bring in the right people, but his system just didnt fit the way it used to. and the smartest thing we did was NOT replace Gibbs with someone like the Cowboys did. someone with a known losing track record. Snyder really did a great job in picking Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 and the smartest thing we did was NOT replace Gibbs with someone like the Cowboys did. someone with a known losing track record. Snyder really did a great job in picking Zorn. and we also didnt make the mistake of bringing in someone who had a HUGE track record that had been coaching for 30 years. We brought in a fresh face with new blood and it's making us a better squad. When you bring in a big name coach, players tend to get someone intimidated, and the coaches Ego then gets in the way. Zorn is one of the guys on this team. he gets along with players and personel. I admit i was finicky when it came to Zorn getting hired, but since he's been here i've like what i've seen/heard coming out of Redskins park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 you cant really say he didnt get the most out of them. The game is a whole different animal these days. Zorn is a younger coach with experience in the "new" NFL. I dont think Gibbs holds any kind of jealousy. He knew the game had progressed and wasnt the same that it was when he DOMINATED... yes DOMINATED the league. Nothing can be taken away from the man, and you gotta admit... he did bring in the right people, but his system just didnt fit the way it used to. I agree, this league is a different monster than when Gibbs dominated his first go round. And maybe youre right, jealous was probably a bad choice of words, but I do think he now realizes that he didnt get the full potential out of these guys. I do give him complete credit for bringing in the right people but I stand by my original statement, that he didnt get the most out of these guys. I don't know. We had to win the last 4 and 5 games in 07 and 05 to make the playoffs. I don't think respect would have got us that far. Yea, maybe. But if they were capable of that type of play, shouldnt Gibbs have been able to get that out of them week in and week out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 If Zorn is OK with giving credit to Gibbs for assembling the talent, why are you so against it?Zorn said the cupboard wasn't bear thanks to Gibbs. Get over it. If that's what Zorn has said, then that's that. It looks like from that Zorn gives JG credit for the talent he has to work with. So like it or not, JG does get credit. But, this is Zorn's team. Thank you, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Zorn gets most of the credit. He's the coach. He gets the credit and the blame. That's how it works. That said, Zorn's supposed strength is the passing game. Right now we are winning by running the ball, using Gibbs' running scheme, and defense, with Gibbs' defensive coordinator. Looks like Zorn is smart enough to do more with these tools than Gibbs did, but it's ok to recognize that Gibbs passed them them along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasticbricks Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Can we all just agree that BOTH Gibbs ad Zorn have contributed positively to the current state of the team now? Laying the foundation to any orginization is import and getting the most out of what you have when you arrived at any situation is also important. As Redskins fans, we are lucky with with Joe Gibbs left us with and we are also lucky to have a new Head Coach who brings to the table a fresh philosophy, who is bold and is willing to take risks. Why debate who is more important and not just accept that both men have helped make the team what it is now. Smile everyone, be happy. Enjoy what we are experiencing. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanders 83 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 I give all the credit to Zorn. Some need to leave Gibbs in the past. Being that I started the thread, I could and probably should have given Zorn some credit. I didn't mean to take away anything he has brought the team. My point was more the structure Gibbs brought back to the Redskins, bringing in the hard working players we have. The ones who don't point fingers and other people when and if we do lose, instead looking in the mirror and saying I need to play better, we all need to play better. Much unlike our good "friends" in dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanders 83 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're missing the point my friend. Is it really that much of a stretch to suggest that part of the success Zorn is enjoying is attributable to the team Gibbs assembled? In other words, would Coach Zorn have the Detroit Lions at 5-2 right now?I'm not taking anything away from Zorn...I think he's a hell of a coach and the PERFECT man for the job. I'm just saying that Gibbs constructed a quality team for him. There we go!! Someone who gets it... lol Obviously Zorn and the Lions would be undefeated... lol:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Isn't our running system technically Saunders, since it wasn't changed from last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sith lord Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Isn't our running system technically Saunders, since it wasn't changed from last year? Don't you know? EVERYTHING good that happened in the past 4 years is Gibbs and anything bad was someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Isn't our running system technically Saunders, since it wasn't changed from last year? We're talking about the roster that Gibbs assembled and the type of character guys he brought in. In other words, the team he handed over to Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Without a doubt!! Thanks Coach Joe!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcnativenerd Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 He may not have been the best coach his second time around, but he was the RIGHT coach. Thanks, Coach Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwills1 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 who cares....Zorn is doing his thing now. Gibbs may have assembled talent....but he didn't really know how to scheme in this "new" NFL. Great guy...great leader...great coach...can we focus on Zorn now? Truth be told...we still need to add depth and get better in certain areas...so let's let Zorn earn his stripes. I don't doubt his ability to evaluate talent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 We're talking about the roster that Gibbs assembled and the type of character guys he brought in. In other words, the team he handed over to Zorn. Well, no, someone mentioned the running game. Considering the running game from 2004 wasn't even the same system as it was in 2006-7 and that Saunders brought his running scheme to the team as offensive coordinator, that would mean that we're really using some kind of Saunders/Gibbs hybrid scheme. But it's no surprise that we started to see REAL running room in 2006, even with Ladell Betts and even though our team was destroyed by injuries and bad QB play. We had Portis in 2004 and we didn't make the playoffs. It was in 2005 where it was pointed out how much was changed even in the run blocking to account more for Portis' talents, even though he did gain weight to take more of a pounding. Gibbs maybe had a positive effect on Portis from that perspective but I think a small part of that was unintentional. It's not taking credit away from the kinds of players Gibbs brought in. Not at all. I just think it's getting a bit tiresome to keep hearkening back to Gibbs after every win when it's ZORN doing the coaching and Zorn who seems to have gotten CAmpbell to perform at a higher level AND who has also put Clinton back up in YPC average, as opposed to hovering around 3.9/4.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 We just had a big "discussion" about Gibbs a couple of weeks ago.I stand by what I said and this is Gibbs team and Zorn is adding his touch. And whoever disagrees is crazy. And that is the final answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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