Do gays/lesbians "straight-bash" as much as straight people gay bash?

[BigMike619]

****** was also socially acceptable for a long time. so were many other racist names.

[Bang]

It's hardly hypocritical...

You're essentially making the argument that nicknames or classifications of any sort are wrong. Should I not call you Big Mike because you're either big or bigger than some unknown Little Mike? Seems to me that you like the term Big Mike otherwise it wouldn't be your handle on ES. On the other hand, I could just call you Dumb Mike if I perceive you as dumb... but somehow I don't think you'd appreciate that.

I'm saying that it all comes down to judgment and social stigma. The term "breeder" doesn't have a negative social stigma around it and, honestly, most people just laugh at the term. The term "fag" is quite the opposite and there are easily dozens of other terms or phrases you could use as a response that would not risk offending your landlords.

Also, if you really do dislike "breeder" you should probably tell someone.

Depends on who you ask.

If a gay person called me a "breeder" I'd definitely take offense to it. For one, we don't "breed". Breeding is a term most used when discussing the reproduction of animals. If someone referred to my wife the same way a farmer refers to his pigs, he'd get a face full of fist.

If it's technically correct that we do indeed reproduce, or breed, then technically it is not offensive for me to call a gay man a "***sucker". It would be a factual statement, and he shouldn't be offended by it. Same goes for "rump rider," "buttplugger", and a hundred other technically correct descriptions of their activities.

It's not up to the person casting the slur to decide if it's offensive or not.

~Bang

[ljs]

Well, there's lj...the OP

Here I am...good morning all....thank god for conference calls... lets me do work and hang out on ES all at the same time.

let me catch up on the 4 pages of new posts..brb

[Forehead]

If it's technically correct that we do indeed reproduce, or breed, then technically it is not offensive for me to call a gay man a "***sucker". It would be a factual statement, and he shouldn't be offended by it. Same goes for "rump rider," "buttplugger", and a hundred other technically correct descriptions of their activities.

I always thought 'Bone Smuggler" was funny, myself. And for some reason, I'm not offended by the term "Breeder."

More MUNCHING OUT!!!:munchout::munchout::munchout::munchout:

[Kosher Ham]

****** was also socially acceptable for a long time. so were many other racist names.

It was used more. I don't think it was ever socially acceptable really.

As far as blacks being called names...they usually have had negative references attached to them. I call one of my best friends "country", what does that mean to you ?

And Bang, I agree. If Mike or yourself is offended by being called a "breeder", than its offensive to you at least and it is something you needs to discuss with the person(s) who said it.

To me it seems more playful than hateful though.

Bang you have a child, therefore you are a breeder...why would you be offended. We are technically animals right ?

[The Sisko]

BigMike, I don't know if you didn't get my point or if you're intentionally trying to mischaracterize my position for some reason. I obviously wasn't trying to condone or minimize slurs from any group. Rather, I was acknowleging that some slurs, because of the history behind them, carry more weight than others. They're all bad, but certainly calling a Jew the K word is much worse than calling someone "baldy" because the latter term has no history of violence and repression behind it. The same is true of anti Gay vs anti Straight slurs.

[ljs]

we should get the homosexual ES posters on here and they should start a thread, sort of like the "Ask a mechanic" thread, (not like the ask MSF thread though.) It might actually breed a bit of tolerence among some, maybe get the lines of communication going or whatever.

Probably a dumb idea, but my opinion is that questions lead to answers.

actually, I'd be cool with it. I think educating people is great. I've met alot of people in my life who said I was the only gay person they knew. And some even had changed their views once they got to know me. For example, one friend thought all lesbians had short hair, never wore make up and such. He used say, you're too pretty to be a lesbian. Sorry, but that was hella funny. Like only ugly chicks are gay.

[Kosher Ham]

actually, I'd be cool with it. I think educating people is great. I've met alot of people in my life who said I was the only gay person they knew. And some even had changed their views once they got to know me. For example, one friend thought all lesbians had short hair, never wore make up and such. He used say, you're too pretty to be a lesbian. Sorry, but that was hella funny. Like only ugly chicks are gay.

You have just made this thread... useless without pics.

[ljs]

Something of a disclaimer here...I've had the opportunity to get to know Lori this year. She's very nice and I'm lucky to have her as a friend.

It's no secret in here about me being a conservative. However, I've always had three "liberal" biases. I'm not for the death penalty. I'm against assault weapons being in the hands of our citizens. Gays - I don't bash, hate, or discriminate. Let them have civil unions. Leave them be, especially if they are happy.

Who bashes more? Straights - by far. In my time on mother earth, I have known some ten people or so who are gay. I know for a fact that each one of them has faced anything from bashing to hate and yes, violence.

If you get the fortunate chance to befriend Lori, you won't regret it.

Love ya Lori.

aww, Ken you rock!

funny thing is, I'm actually conservative myself. I'll leave it at that since I decided to join the non political group til the election.

[ljs]

Originally Posted by Riggins77

Why don't you quit crying about it, telling the guy to **** off and threaten to beat his ass in front of God and everybody?

What does being gay have to do with standing up for yourself? If you're a man and have a set of balls stand up to those ****ers.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

If the poster was a gay guy, why would a guy hitting on him bother him? Obviously the poster is a lesbian.

ding ding ding...we have a winner....

[BigMike619]

It was used more. I don't think it was ever socially acceptable really.

As far as blacks being called names...they usually have had negative references attached to them. I call one of my best friends "country", what does that mean to you ?

And Bang, I agree. If Mike or yourself is offended by being called a "breeder", than its offensive to you at least and it is something you needs to discuss with the person(s) who said it.

To me it seems more playful than hateful though.

Bang you have a child, therefore you are a breeder...why would you be offended. We are technically animals right ?

so by your logic with bang breeding, is it ok for someone to call you darky? you are darker then that person most likely, so is it ok?

my point is this; it may be "new" to some people to hear that breeder and other slurs come from gay people and offend straight people but it all has to have an origin some place. it doesnt mean it is ok just because it isnt done in the same numbers as straight vs gay bashing and it is something that needs to be addressed.

[ljs]

I like the "ask a lesbian" or "ask a gay man" thread idea. Could be interesting as long as certain members don't act like 10 year olds. .

I'm seriously considering it, I think it could be interesting. And I'd ignore the "stupid" posts.

The flamboyant gay men are the funniest of all. I don't know what a flamboyant gay woman is other than a dyke. Please explain if you can. .

I think of someone who is flamboyant as extreme. Like I'm a "flamboyant" redskins fan...lol. I've gone to pride parades in the past, but that was when I was younger and wanting to make a statement. I think that most of my "bashing" experiences happened as a teenager and it was my way of standing up and saying, "Here I am, I won't go away". I had short hair, looked more butch and stuff.

As I've gotten older, I've really embraced who I am and what makes me comfortable. I don't need short hair to fit in the gay world. I can be who I am. I'm a business manager, so I have to wear business suits and such. I wear makeup and do my hair. But then when I get home, I throw on my Redskins visor, jeans and such. Again, it's about what makes you comfortable, you have to just be who you are.

I live by this motto regarding friends:

"There is something about every person in life that you will ever know that is effed up, your decision is whether that effed up part is too much for you to accept them as a friend".

I have a good friend that is a gay woman. She is a "lipstick lesbian", but she loves sports. She loves just hanging out and having a good time. She is just an all-around cool chick. She has bad taste in women though...at least by my standards.

I love that quote about friend. Was just having that same type of discussion with my mom the other day.

LJ, (and I know that I have said this many times)

Prejudice is the issue. Not racism, or sexism...prejudice.

Spot on. Prejudice is wrong, no matter who does it. I hate when my gay friends say the word faggot or "that is so gay". Just as I'm sure there are African Americans who don't like other black people using the N word. Just because you call yourself that doesn't make it right.

[Bang]

Bang you have a child, therefore you are a breeder...why would you be offended. We are technically animals right ?

Well, by all means.

Then a gay person should not be offended by my calling him a dick sucker, or an asslicker. Hell, they call themselves fags and queers and gals, so why all the hubbub, bub?

Seems to make sense to me.

Not.

~Bang

[Enter Apotheosis]

Depends on who you ask.

If a gay person called me a "breeder" I'd definitely take offense to it. For one, we don't "breed". Breeding is a term most used when discussing the reproduction of animals. If someone referred to my wife the same way a farmer refers to his pigs, he'd get a face full of fist.

Interesting point. I never really considered that interpretation of the term.

If it's technically correct that we do indeed reproduce, or breed, then technically it is not offensive for me to call a gay man a "***sucker". It would be a factual statement, and he shouldn't be offended by it. Same goes for "rump rider," "buttplugger", and a hundred other technically correct descriptions of their activities.

The terms you're equating to "breeder" are decidedly harsher and much more direct, though. Those terms better equate to just outright calling someone a whore.

It's not up to the person casting the slur to decide if it's offensive or not.

~Bang

At the same time, you can't reasonably expect people to not say something just because it may offend someone, somewhere. Our channels of communication would be extremely limited, otherwise. The individual has to make a snap judgment about what constitutes a slur and whether or not the risk of offending someone is worth it at some point.

[ljs]

OK lets see...I have a couple lesbian friends who are complete "male-haters" and bash them...not really straight bashing. I have had a few "gay friends" who while never taking it to the physical level have yelled their little insults. no biggie.

I was told that a lesbian rugby team was looking to kick my butt....(and yeah I would have been dead...) but again, wasn't a straight bashing thing...the girl I was dating at the time got upset with me at a rugby tourny and was crying in the bathroom. She told them some BS story about me, and they started looking for me, asking anyone who was wearing anything that said Albany Knicks on it if they knew where I was.

So straight bashing....no....Male bashing yeah, but that was because of a damn lie my soon after that ex said.

When I was a cop, my best friend was a male cop I worked with. He came to pick me up at an all lesbian party (he was my DD). I told him it was ok to just walk in, cause some of the ladies knew him. Long story short, there were a lot of older lesbians there. Well, he walked in and you could almost hear a pin drop. He told me that he felt like they were killing him with their eyes.

I spoke to the person who held the party and apologized if I wasn't supposed to have him come in. She explained that many of the older women (over 50), had some extremely bad experiences with men and that they just didn't feel comfortable. It made sense that it wasn't that they hated men, but they had no idea my buddy was going to show up. So it kinda freaked them out.

I had a similar incident in the military. A black gal befriended me and invited me to a bbq. I show up and I'm the only white person there, amongst about 30 people. Many of whom looked at me with so much hate, I got scared. (and btw, they were almost all gay/lesbian). I just find it ridiculous that people who experience hate and prejudice end up doing it themselves.

[Kosher Ham]

so by your logic with bang breeding, is it ok for someone to call you darky? you are darker then that person most likely, so is it ok?

my point is this; it may be "new" to some people to hear that breeder and other slurs come from gay people and offend straight people but it all has to have an origin some place. it doesnt mean it is ok just because it isnt done in the same numbers as straight vs gay bashing and it is something that needs to be addressed.

So you assume I am "darker". That's interesting.

What ever happened to getting to know someone ?

I have buddies that tease me and call me Hawaiian and such...big deal. It's just teasing. There is no malice behind the words. Even if there was, I am not weak enough to empower them.

And I said that if it is offensive to you, than you should address it with the "breeder" caller.

I go back to a post I made earlier regarding sexuality and such.

[ljs]

, I'm going to applaud LJ's use of the smilie :munchout:. It's only fitting that for a thread involving lesbians, we use a smilie called "Munching Out."

:notworthy ok, now that is hilarious. I laughed so hard I nearly fell out of my chair.

[BigMike619]

So you assume I am "darker". That's interesting.

What ever happened to getting to know someone ?

I have buddies that tease me and call me Hawaiian and such...big deal. It's just teasing. There is no malice behind the words. Even if there was, I am not weak enough to empower them.

And I said that if it is offensive to you, than you should address it with the "breeder" caller.

I go back to a post I made earlier regarding sexuality and such.

If you want to twist it so that it sounds like I was calling you darker that is fine. I was merely making an example but take it how you will.

And just because you have decided to let it slide off your back doesnt mean that everyone is going to be the same as you. I personally had enough of the racial names coming at me while growing up in Chillum and dont even like being called "white boy" any more because I know what was once meant behind it.

[ljs]

Well, by all means.

Then a gay person should not be offended by my calling him a dick sucker, or an asslicker. Hell, they call themselves fags and queers and gals, so why all the hubbub, bub?

Seems to make sense to me.

Not.

~Bang

It really comes down to perception when we talk about words. Funny how I actually teach about that in some of my management trainings. You can say something with no malice intent, but that means nothing if the person you are talking to perceives it to be malice.

such as someone said earlier that he has a gay friend and they tease each other w/ the word breeder or "fag". But they have agreed to that. Heck, even some of my lesbian friends and I will use the term Dyke when we want to flip each other ****. But I would get offended if someone screamed that at me. I think you also have to take into consideration, tone of voice. You can tell when someone is joking and when someone is saying it to be mean. I've called straight people breeder, in a joking manner. Never with malice intent, and they were friends. I would never just yell that at someone out of anger. Again, it's the tone you use. '

Mike, you have been joking around with calling me slagathor. Which I find funny. I looked it up yesterday and it means something to the effect of a really ugly woman. Even knowing what it means, I'm not offended, as I know it's just a joke. Now, if you were to "say" it in a mean tone (which yes you can do that via internet), then I would get upset. (and call you breast milk )

[Kosher Ham]

Well, by all means.

Then a gay person should not be offended by my calling him a dick sucker, or an asslicker. Hell, they call themselves fags and queers and gals, so why all the hubbub, bub?

Seems to make sense to me.

Not.

~Bang

I'm not offended.

But for someone like you that pokes fun at people all the time based on perception...I find it odd that names would hurt you.

What they call each other is within their circle of life. It changes nothing in my life.

As far as the 'DS' or 'AL' references, hey that's up to them. Depends on your relationship.

To use an example. Eminem was criticized for saying 'N'. Reality is, it was acceptable for him to say it around his peers, friends, even his audience.

[Bang]

The terms you're equating to "breeder" are decidedly harsher and much more direct, though. Those terms better equate to just outright calling someone a whore.

At the same time, you can't reasonably expect people to not say something just because it may offend someone, somewhere. Our channels of communication would be extremely limited, otherwise. The individual has to make a snap judgment about what constitutes a slur and whether or not the risk of offending someone is worth it at some point.

No, I can reasonably expect that a term used to describe an entire group of people in a derogatory manner should not be used.

And calling someone a "breeder" is indeed derogatory.

As you say, the terms I used are decidedly more harsh, but in who's ears? As I said, a breeder is a term used towards animals, or people who facillitate the reproduction of animals.

Again, someone calls my wife that they're going to have a problem with me.

(Truth is, I've only ever heard the term actually used once, and I'm playing some Devil's Advocate here.)

I know plenty of gay guys, one of my oldest and best friends on this earth is gay. And I've never heard any of them use such terms, and I wouldn't expect too, either. Same as they would be shocked if they heard me refer to them as "faggots". They're decent folks who know the difference.

The people who would use such a term are more than likely a person who doesn't know better, or care. Same as people who would use racial epithets or otherwise offensive slurs.

As to my poking fun at people, I do, and you're right in that area. The only one I think I actually come close to slandering is Jeff Garcia, and only because he talks so effeminate. I've made cartoons in which he shows off his smokin' hot wife and tells everyone to go screw, too.

By the same token, I'd never call him a fag in a cartoon, same as I'd never call someone a ****** or a chink or a spic. (And if i did, it would be a shot at the character using the term, not the character he's flinging it at. I certainly wouldn't use such things gratuitously.)

I may poke a little fun, but I do sincerely try to not just be purposely offensive. But, satire does allow some leeway, as long as it's got a point beyond just trying to offend people. Offending folks is easy.)

~Bang

[BigMike619]

Mike, you have been joking around with calling me slagathor. Which I find funny. I looked it up yesterday and it means something to the effect of a really ugly woman. Even knowing what it means, I'm not offended, as I know it's just a joke. Now, if you were to "say" it in a mean tone (which yes you can do that via internet), then I would get upset. (and call you breast milk )

no, the difference is that you came out calling me breast milk which indicates that you want to joke and call each other names. i responded with a name that i heard on scrubs and called you that. I would never come out and call someone a name that could offend them without personally knowing it was ok. And honestly, until this thread I had no idea if you were male/female, straight/gay. And thats the truth.

Then out of fairness to the others, you will be Slagathor. Daves, Debbies, Slagathor, I will be in my office. If you need anything, feel free to bother Dorian. -Dr. Kelso

the nurse's name was actually debbie so he decided on slagathor out of fairness to others.

[Predicto]

He used say, you're too pretty to be a lesbian. Sorry, but that was hella funny. Like only ugly chicks are gay.

True story. The first week after I moved to San Francisco, I went down to Baker Beach, which is just outside the Golden Gate and is the best beach in the City.

I'm walking toward the bridge, looking at the waves and all of a sudden this extraordinarily beautiful woman comes up from the surf. Long dark hair, big eyes, perfect figure. She is coming straight toward me waving her hand in greeting and she is.... get this... totally stark naked. :laugh: I'm thinking that it is a dream, that I'm living the Bo Derek scene in the movie "10." I'm blushing and stammering and trying to think of something witty to say.

Then her girlfriend (who was behind me) brushes past me and hugs her and they kiss and move back toward the water chattering. I felt like a complete fool. :doh:

That was the day that I learned that the north end of Baker Beach is clothing optional and that no, not all lesbians are homely.

[grhqofb5]

actually, I'd be cool with it. I think educating people is great. I've met alot of people in my life who said I was the only gay person they knew. And some even had changed their views once they got to know me. For example, one friend thought all lesbians had short hair, never wore make up and such. He used say, you're too pretty to be a lesbian. Sorry, but that was hella funny. Like only ugly chicks are gay.

The reason I asked, honestly, is that as a straight guy i've never been friends with a gay guy or a lesbian (that I know of), and even if I was I probably wouldn't bug them about it, so I know nothing. I'm sure a lot of people here have some good questions (even if they sound immature), but another thread would probably be better.

[ljs]

no, the difference is that you came out calling me breast milk which indicates that you want to joke and call each other names. i responded with a name that i heard on scrubs and called you that. I would never come out and call someone a name that could offend them without personally knowing it was ok. And honestly, until this thread I had no idea if you were male/female, straight/gay. And thats the truth.

.

I hope I didn't offend you by saying breast milk, as I thought that was what someone else called you in the anti politics thread. I honestly thought we were all joking about different names if someone broke the rules of our lil group.

I figured that most don't know I'm a woman, let alone a lesbian, unless they read certain threads. Unlike some of the other ladies on ES, my screen name would not indicate either way. I've had to set the record straight a few times, which is no big deal. I never get offended when someone thinks I'm a guy on here, cause I bet 85% or more really are. I just let them know I'm a woman and go about my business.

I don't consider myself flamboyant either, and only ever came out due to some religous threads on homosexuality months ago that I felt compelled to respond to. Then once in awhile the topic comes up, hence the thread that was the inspiration for this one. I think it's good to let people hear from the horses mouth so to speak. I mean, isn't it kinda hard for a straight person to speak about what gay people go through? Just like it's hard for a white person to speak like they really can understand what black people experience, regarding prejudice.