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Off Duty Cop Shoots Hells Angel in Sturgis Bar

Dan T.

By Dan T.
in The Tailgate

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
You tell me, Larry. You were so dismissive of their concealed weapon permit in S.D., I figured you knew the answer already. Until I looked it up.

Well, I've been told that there are some states where they allow CCW permit holders to carry in bars. (I was kind of surprised. Seemed like a stupid law to me. But I should be used to the fact that stupid laws exist by now.)

OTOH, the way I figure it, in order for this cop to be legally carrying a gun in a bar in ND, all of the following have to be true:

  • WA has to have a CCW law.
  • SD has to have a CCW reciprocity agreement with WA. (Could well be true, from what's been posted here.)
  • The cop has to have applied for, and received, a CCW permit in WA. (IMO, real unlikely. Why go through the classes and whatever for a permit that allows him to something that, as a cop, he can already do, without the permit?)
  • SD has to allow CCW holders to carry guns in bars.

What are the odds that all of those statements are true?

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Fergasun

Fergasun

Posted
Posted

I don't get the biker gangs. Here in Southern California I see a ton of bikers wearing masks, etc. covering their face and I just assume they are in some gang... sometimes wearing funky full-face masks... they look like Raider fans. Why can't the biker gangs go to war with the inner-city gangs?

So from what I understand, biker gangs are where older white people get their gang on, and inner cities are where the minorities get their gang on? Seriously, I really am naive about this all and never understood it... maybe I'll have the bikers coming after me because of my comments... but it seems to me a gang is a gang...

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Shilsu

Shilsu

Posted
Posted

Why not just open carry that shiznit o bammamamamoooooa

I heard about a case in VA where a couple of guys in the hood who were up to no good decided to carry some heat in teh neighborhood so my mom got scared and sent me to bel air and that's how i became the fresh prince of bel air yo taxi smell ya later anyway i heard open carry is the bomb shizinitnig dodgggg and the cops who confiscated their guns returned them without incident ineresting no

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Dan T.

Dan T.

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Well, I've been told that there are some states where they allow CCW permit holders to carry in bars. (I was kind of surprised. Seemed like a stupid law to me. But I should be used to the fact that stupid laws exist by now.)

OTOH, the way I figure it, in order for this cop to be legally carrying a gun in a bar in ND, all of the following have to be true:

  • WA has to have a CCW law.
  • SD has to have a CCW reciprocity agreement with WA. (Could well be true, from what's been posted here.)
  • The cop has to have applied for, and received, a CCW permit in WA. (IMO, real unlikely. Why go through the classes and whatever for a permit that allows him to something that, as a cop, he can already do, without the permit?)
  • SD has to allow CCW holders to carry guns in bars.

What are the odds that all of those statements are true?

This article provides an account of the incident from the shooter, and includes a discussion of the legality of that off-duty officer carrying a gun in the incident:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008107160_sturgis12m0.html

From the article:

"The South Dakota Division of Criminal Investigation is reviewing state and federal laws pertaining to concealed-weapons permits to determine whether the detective did anything illegal by carrying a firearm into a bar, said Sara Rabern, spokeswoman for the South Dakota Attorney General's Office.

Kinney, the bar owner, said he doesn't know how the Seattle detective got past security with a firearm.

According to South Dakota law, people with concealed-weapons permits cannot carry firearms into bars. Police officers are exempt from this rule if they have written permission from the county sheriff, according to the law.

However, a federal law enacted in 2004 supersedes the state law, allowing off-duty law-enforcement officers to carry weapons anywhere they choose, but it requires that the weapons handler is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

"I was not intoxicated," the detective said.

Kinney said he doesn't recall any of the Iron Pigs group being drunk.

The detective added that he believes the 2004 federal law gives him the right to carry a gun wherever he wants while off-duty. The detective said he always carries a gun at motorcycle rallies because he knows that a motorcycle club composed of cops and firefighters attracts negative attention from "outlaw" bikers."

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Dan T.

Dan T.

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Here's an account from "Paladin" on the biker message board ozbiker.org.

http://www.ozbiker.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=33&topic=16585.15

(Reply #17)

Let me start by telling all that I am an LEO, I belong to an LEMC, and I am sadden by this event in SD.

Here is the reality. Cops have worn 3P Cuts for as long as the so called 1% MC's, this is fact and any 1% MC member on these forums knows this.

I have the details of this event, I will not cage my report, or put it in any better light.

FACTS: The LEO's were all patched members of the Iron Pigs MC (not my club, just to let all know). They were in the American RoadHouse bar at around 1 a.m. on the far side from the door. The HA's were near the entrance to the RH. A PROSPECT HA kept eyeing and throwing jestures at the IP's. The PROSPECT walked over to the IP's and began to curse them, tell them they could not wear their colors in "Their Bar". One of the IP's told the PROSPECT HA to go away they were not looking for any trouble. The PROSPECT then knocked the IP to the ground and began kicking him in the head. A full patch HA (weighed about 350 lbs) blocked the other 4 IP's from assisting their buddy. The IP drew his firearm and shot the PROSPECT HA in the knee and in the gut.

There you have it.

Now, There has been a longstanding tradition in the MC world that COP clubs are of no threat to 1% MC's and that the 3P cuts worn by LEMC's did not "claim" territory, or signal any threat to the dominate 1% club in a state. I have been approached by HA's who saw my Colors, asked who I was, I identify myself as a police officer that is a member of a LEMC, and the coversation turns to, "what kinda beer do you want?".

This situation is bad all the way around in SC, the Prospect was, as they do, trying to earn his cuts and stepped into a world of crap. The IP's should not have been in the bar with HA's, showing disrespect to them.

I have been around the LEMC world for a long time, this is the first I have ever heard of a LEMC shooting a 1% MC member.

Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath, and get back to the basics.

Let's be real, the Prospect HA knew who the hell the IP were, and no Patch holding HA would have ever acted in such a manner, because there is no point in aggravating a situation such as this. If the HA's did not want the IP's in the bar, it should have been handled between office holders, period. This is a case of a prospect getting out of hand, and his sponsor letting it go to far.

I am not taking up for the LEO's, but all 1% know that LEMC members are armed at all times, we are trained in the use of firearms, so what in hell would someone approach a bunch of "known" cops and attack one of them? Stupidity. As it would be stupid for a LEMC member to approach the HA's and start going off at the mouth, then the LEMC member should get his ass kicked.

This is a bad deal. I hope the Prospect HA recovers, as does the long standing tradition of living together in the MC world of LEMC's and 1% MC's. If not, it is going to only fuel more incidents like this.

Paladin [/Quote]

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REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE

REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE

Posted
Posted

1) Don't take your gun on vacation

I disagree, I stay strapped when I go on vacation and or out of town. And I would never pull it out unless I absolutely had to, I'd rather scrap with my hands. I dont care if I was to get my azz whopped, I still wouldnt bring it out. Guns dont kill people, stupid people kill people. That cop/biker gang member is a tough guy who probably uses his badge to bully people and probably went into that bar like he was all high and mighty because he's a "iron pig", and the Hells Angels probably started to beat the crap out him, then he went for his gun and let it off. He put himself in that situation, having a gun has nothing to do with it. If he had a big rambo knife, would that had made the better?

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REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE

REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE

Posted
Posted
were talking about the Hell's Angels though. They dont think rationally and they dont care what happens as long as they get revenge. The war between them and the Mongols is unfreakingreal and its crazy the lengths they will go to "get" each other when they feel like they need to.

you guys should pick up the book Under and Alone if you want to read something cool about a cop who goes undercover in the HA's.

I saw a special on the History channel (I think that was the channel) and it talked about the Hells Angels with the Mongols (showed the video tape of the huge fight that broke out in the casino). Also showed the guys who went undercover and infiltrated the Angels, those guys had to have b-lls of steel. It also showed the beef with the mafia and how the Angels were were in Canada with the drug trafficing. The Hells Angels (not all of them) are as business savy as they are violent. That was a good show, I learned a lot about the Hells Angels....

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

Posted
Posted
I don't get the biker gangs. Here in Southern California I see a ton of bikers wearing masks, etc. covering their face and I just assume they are in some gang... sometimes wearing funky full-face masks... they look like Raider fans. Why can't the biker gangs go to war with the inner-city gangs?

So from what I understand, biker gangs are where older white people get their gang on, and inner cities are where the minorities get their gang on? Seriously, I really am naive about this all and never understood it... maybe I'll have the bikers coming after me

A gang is a gang.

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Dan T.

Dan T.

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Can someone explain the whole "one-percenters" thing? I know it comes from a quote about "one-percent" give the other 99% of bikers bad names but it seems this is used to describe certain people within certain biker gangs and I'm really confused.

Here's a piece on the origin of the phrase:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rcvsmc-edu/id26.html

A link there goes into a bit more detail:

http://www.roadratroberts1.bravepages.com/What_The_Hell_is_1%25.htm

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SkinsBry

SkinsBry

Posted
Posted
I disagree, I stay strapped when I go on vacation and or out of town. And I would never pull it out unless I absolutely had to, I'd rather scrap with my hands. I dont care if I was to get my azz whopped, I still wouldnt bring it out.

I don't know you, but I'll take your word for it. I can honestly say that if I was getting a beat-down, I'd probably pull my piece, that's why I don't carry.

Guns dont kill people, stupid people kill people. That cop/biker gang member is a tough guy who probably uses his badge to bully people and probably went into that bar like he was all high and mighty because he's a "iron pig", and the Hells Angels probably started to beat the crap out him, then he went for his gun and let it off. He put himself in that situation,

I agree with this 100%.

having a gun has nothing to do with it. If he had a big rambo knife, would that had made the better?

The article said that they deal with crap everyday on the job and they don't want to deal with it outside of work. My view is that if he wasn't carrying and had been more passive and left when confronted, this could've / might've been avoided. :whoknows:

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