Poll: With Time Passed, Gibbs or Zorn?

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I think Cowher is going to return this team to respectability starting in 2009. I just can't convinced that Zorn and Blache are anything other than place holders.

"Well, we can't see to find the right coach."

"Let's just wait and get Cowher next year."

"Ok, But who will coach us in the meantime?"

"Hmm. Well, we have this guy we already hired as an OC. Maybe we can sell him as a HC for a season and get people excited about youth and change. Blache is going to retire, but maybe we can talk him into putting in 1 more year as DC."

"Hey, that'll work. Let's go with them until Cowher is ready."

I'm bumping this in a year so you can have a good laugh at yourself.

[hail2skins]

I think Cowher is going to return this team to respectability starting in 2009. I just can't convinced that Zorn and Blache are anything other than place holders.

Barring Zorn totally crapping the bed this year and showing total incompetence, if Dan were to give Jim the heave-ho after 2008 in favor of Cowher, Snyder would indeed have to go.

When Cowher comes back it'll be for no more than five years tops and then he'll retire again to the TV studios......just IMO.

[McD5]

While I appreciate you optimism, how can you say we can compete with ANY team and beat them........we have NO clue WHAT Zorn can do. Really. He was a qb coach. Never a leader of a team.

Our qb is coming off a season ending injury.....and, IMO, needed to make improvements in his play before he was injured.

A shot? At the SuperBowl? Lots of teams "have a shot."

That is really not making much of a commitment. While it may very well prove to be true....I dont see it. I would love to come back and say........hey......this coach lead this team farther than I thought he would........I just can't make that statement now.

I don't believe that Zorn is stuck to JC.

If JC isn't cutting it, I believe Todd Collins can.

We don't need a GREAT qb........you don't need a GREAT qb to make the Superbowl in the NFC.

We just need someone a little better than competent. I wouldn't be surprised if JC wasn't taking the snaps by the tenth week of the season.

And we don't exactly have to beat the best teams to make the big game.

While we may be in one of the toughest divisions, we are certainly in the easiest conference.

[MustangSteve]

There are so many unknowns about Zorn. My lord, he has never even been a coordinator..........so how can we know what he will bring to the playing field. Going to the SuperBowl with him? Oh my. Let's get out of training camp first.

Thats what scares me and it is truth. The only faith I have in this team is because it was built and taught by great coaches on offense and defense. Joe Gibbs inherited one of the worst teams in football and in only 2 years had them on a SuperBowl run.

If the Skins happen to even make the playoffs this year, most of that credit still goes to Gibbs because Jim Zorn inherited a playoff team that has the potential to be a champion, thanks to Joe Gibbs.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'm going with Zorn...and the man hasn't even coached an NFL game yet.

I personally think Gibbs was so overmatched in his last stint that it wasn't even funny.

I know many will argue how we made the playoffs 2 out of the 4 years that Gibbs was here.

But you have to look at HOW we made the playoffs. Being forced to make those late season runs was in large part, the fault of Gibbs.

So yes, I think that Zorn will do a better job than Gibbs. Many coaches would have, IMO

[jnhay]

Gibbs had to overcome a learning curve when coming back to coach, and I think he improved and adapted every year he was coaching. That's what you need to do if you want to be a great coach, and that's what Gibbs is. I don't know if a Super Bowl would have come this year, but there's no way I would say that Gibbs just wouldn't be able to ever get it done.

One more year in Saunders' system would have helped Campbell greatly as well, so you would have to also take that into consideration.

[tr1]

Gibbs was never going to get it done, and I don't know a thing about Zorn until the first play.

No, Gibbs was never going to get it done....since he put us in the playoffs two of the last three years. :doh:

Please, when was the last time we were in the playoffs prior to Gibbs II?

Asinine thread.... :2cents:

[tr1]

I think Cowher is going to return this team to respectability starting in 2009. I just can't convinced that Zorn and Blache are anything other than place holders.

"Well, we can't see to find the right coach."

"Let's just wait and get Cowher next year."

"Ok, But who will coach us in the meantime?"

"Hmm. Well, we have this guy we already hired as an OC. Maybe we can sell him as a HC for a season and get people excited about youth and change. Blache is going to retire, but maybe we can talk him into putting in 1 more year as DC."

"Hey, that'll work. Let's go with them until Cowher is ready."

How many years did it take Cowher to win a SB? Just asking.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Personally, I was not sold on the Gibbs II administration. I don't think that's a huge news flash to anyone around here. I really felt that they should have been able to do a lot more than they did in terms of turning this back into a Winning franchise. I was not real disappointed to see Joe re-retire.

Unfortunately I'm not sold on the replacement that the team brought in either. Zorn has no NFL head coaching experience. He has no experience as an OC or a play caller in the NFL either. He's only had the ability to bring in a small number of "his" people. While I hope he does well, I'm not going to be terribly surprised if this season looks like the news footage from the Hindenburg or Titanic disasters.

[tr1]

Personally, I was not sold on the Gibbs II administration. I don't think that's a huge news flash to anyone around here. I really felt that they should have been able to do a lot more than they did in terms of turning this back into a Winning franchise. I was not real disappointed to see Joe re-retire.

Unfortunately I'm not sold on the replacement that the team brought in either. Zorn has no NFL head coaching experience. He has no experience as an OC or a play caller in the NFL either. He's only had the ability to bring in a small number of "his" people. While I hope he does well, I'm not going to be terribly surprised if this season looks like the news footage from the Hindenburg or Titanic disasters.

Wow! What a surprise! MSF doesn't like any Skins' coaches... :laugh:

[kevinklein]

You can't win a Super Bowl when you stop playing at half time. That's what I'm hoping Zorn corrects.

[elkabong82]

Good point tr1.

If Gibbs could get us to the playoffs, then we do have a shot at getting to, and winning, the Superbowl. In recent years, the Giants and Steelers have both proven it doesn't matter how you make the playoffs, it's what you do when you get there. They have both proven as 5th and 6th seeds, that any team has a shot at winning it all so long as they make the postseason.

[hail2skins]

I know many will argue how we made the playoffs 2 out of the 4 years that Gibbs was here.

But you have to look at HOW we made the playoffs. Being forced to make those late season runs was in large part, the fault of Gibbs.

Its interesting when you look past the three Lombardis, a good number of seasons of Gibbs I contained late-season runs:

'84: from 5-4 to 11-5 (won NFC East)

'85: from 5-5 to 10-6 (missed playoffs)

'89: from 5-6 to 10-6 (missed playoffs)

'90: from 6-5 to 10-6 (wild card berth)

Of course we're always going to remember Gibbs for the three trophies but what's more is that the Skins were a consistently good team, with the only hiccup being in '88, and even then we were 6-4 before sliding to 7-9. I think the expectations of Gibbs II making it back to the Super Bowl were probably too high, but I wonder if some of us (and I include myself) would have looked on his return stint more favorably if we had a decent season in 2006 (remember, the Giants and Cowboys both made the playoffs with 8-8 record) instead of the 5-11 steaming turd that happened.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Wow! What a surprise! MSF doesn't like any Skins' coaches... :laugh:

tr1, I didn't say that I don't like Zorn; I just said that he hasn't proven anything yet and that I'm not sure whether he can do the job or not. Now, we'll probably know a lot more about how much I like him on September 5th, but that's still a couple of months away.

BTW, In the past I enjoyed the first tenure of Joe Gibbs, I had great hopes for Marty Schottenheimer when he arrived and had hopes for Steve Spurrier's time here as well. So please don't say there are NO Redskins coaches that I like.

[Larry Brown #43]

No intent on bias there. If people are really just undecided, they don't have to vote.

That third option doesn't express that. It is more of a, we weren't going to realistically get there with Gibbs.....but it is too early to tell on Zorn.

Different than just "undecided."

So you just decided not to bother offering a perfectly legitimate option of just plain "undecided?" Or perhaps someone feels that Gibbs was moving us in the right direction, but is equally optimistic about Zorn?

Cut the stupid **** about "no intent on bias." That's a load of **** and you know it. You keep making these stupid, slanted polls that blatantly exclude options that you don't want people voting for, thinking that people are too stupid to see through it. What a ******* joke.

Kinda hard to be wrong when you hand-pick the options to suit your purposes. So what is this supposed to prove? I could post a poll with only one option, and say the option I listed got 100% of the vote. I guess that would make me a genius, right? Nonsense like this does nothing but drag ES down. I bet you're having a good laugh over it too.

If this were the first time you pulled this I might be willing to call it an oversight. But this is your second rigged poll in a week. How about acting your age for a change?

[elkabong82]

Good call Larry. I only alluded to it, but you hit the nail on the head.

[FuriousD]

I picked undecided.

We all have a right to be excited about Zorn and the new season. Fresh and exciting is what Gibbs was not. Hell, after Gibbs, the 68 yr old Saunders was fresh and exciting and we all saw what Gibbs did to that.

With Zorn, the risk-reward could he high. He could take off or he could implode but whatever happens, it will be fun to watch.

Having said that, I think Gibbs would have a better '08 than Zorn but I wanted change after last year and I got what I wanted so I'm not gonna ***** too much if he struggles! :shhh:

:helmet:

[Shilsu]

It just wasn't going to happen with Gibbs, at least not in one year if he remained in the same capacity where Saunders was handcuffed. It doesn't surprise me a bit that there are now reports that there were some times of friction between Gibbs and Williams. Too many questionable decisions as both, a part-GM and a coach, from the way too conservative offense and horrible time management to some of the most mindboggling drafts and free agency pickups (trade a 3rd rounder for Brunell, trading a 3rd and 4th so TJ Duckett could provide depth for one year, drafting Manuel White and Nehemiah Broughton, etc.).

Even though Zorn is unknown, and he might be a gamble, at least there is a chance.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Zorn hasn't even played a preseason game yet, so how could you expect anyone to be sold on him? The last time we ran a WCO was the very following year Gibbs retired the first time and we went 1-15 that year.

Pretty sure we went 4-12 that year...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I agree with Bulldog. I think a lot of the reason Gibbs decided to call it quits at the end of 2007 was that I think he looked at the results and believed the team, while decent, was probably several seasons away from being true championship caliber.

And so, being the high character guy Gibbs is known to be, decided to use his grandson's very serious illness as a cop out. Yeah, ok.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

No intent on bias there. If people are really just undecided, they don't have to vote.

:laugh:...So you're admitting that your "undecided" doesn't apply to those of us who really ARE undecided lol...which pretty much makes the case that it's a biased option.

You should have offered the option of "Gibbs would have gotten us there, and I think Zorn will, too". But I don't think in your world "Gibbs would have gotten us there" makes sense so that option never occurs to you.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think Cowher is going to return this team to respectability starting in 2009. I just can't convinced that Zorn and Blache are anything other than place holders.

And if we do, we can expect that Super Bowl trophy in 2024!!

Or maybe we'll rehire Marty, because he "had us on the right track". That way, maybe we can win 4 or 5 wild card games by 2024!!

[corrupt3d]

One of my favorite posters on this board......and I agree on the realization that while we were improved--a Superbowl just wasn't going to happen with the way things were.

However, I am becoming extremely excited about Zorn and what he brings. And it isn't the 95 degree heat here in Florida causing it.

Has he called even one single play yet? No.

Could he be our Cam Cameron, totally over his head? Yes.

But knowing how quickly coaching stints in DC last......I believe Zorn knows he is really only guaranteed one season, maybe two tops.....to let it fly.

With the knowledge of Cowher's name waiting in the wings.....and having been a former qb in the league with an offensive mind.....I don't believe he has anything to lose.

I think he has one shot......and he takes it. Total focus, 100% effort.....let's move the ball.

I couldn't ask for anything more.

Exactly. I think, given time, Gibbs would've taken us to playoff regulars, but I don't think we woulda won another Super Bowl.

Zorn is hungry. I like hungry*.

*Except for when I am hungry, than its uncomfortable

[hail2skins]

And so, being the high character guy Gibbs is known to be, decided to use his grandson's very serious illness as a cop out. Yeah, ok.

Califan, certainly Gibbs cares about his family and I'm sure his grandson's illness weighed on his mind. And no doubt the Taylor tragedy took a toll as well. However, if this team had either a) won the division or gotten to the NFC Championship Game or beyond, I think Gibbs would have decided to come back for another season. Just my opinion.

[McD5]

:laugh:...So you're admitting that your "undecided" doesn't apply to those of us who really ARE undecided lol...which pretty much makes the case that it's a biased option.

You should have offered the option of "Gibbs would have gotten us there, and I think Zorn will, too". But I don't think in your world "Gibbs would have gotten us there" makes sense so that option never occurs to you.

Gibbs would have gotten us there is the very first option.

Anyone who believes that, can vote that way.

No bias.