Poll: With Time Passed, Gibbs or Zorn?

[skinsince72]

I think it will take time w/ Zorn.

[DCchillin89]

Let's face it. Gibbs deux was disappointment. We had two unbelievable runs that got us into the playoffs, but for 75%of his second tenure, we underacheived just like before

[Guest sith lord]

The people who keep on bringing up the two playoffs under Gibbs is just grasping at straws. On both occassions, we had to go on end of the season winning streaks and on both occassions we were the 6th seed.

[elkabong82]

The people who keep on bringing up the two playoffs under Gibbs is just grasping at straws. On both occassions, we had to go on end of the season winning streaks and on both occassions we were the 6th seed.

Uh, we didn't have to win the last game against Dallas. Minny lost, finishing 8-8, and if we had lost to Dallas, we'd have been 8-8 and still made it, holding the tie-breaker over Minny.

Seeing as 5th and 6th seeds have won the Superbowl recently (Steeler's and Giants) I would say those trying to discount our playoff appearances because we were the 6th sed are "grasping at straws". 2 winning seasons out of 4, and 2 in the past 3 season, would NOT suggest we had "ZERO" shot at the Superbowl. Any team who makes the playoffs, regardles of how, has a shot at the Superbowl. Gibbs turned us into a playoff team.:2cents:

[Guest sith lord]

Uh, we didn't have to win the last game against Dallas. Minny lost, finishing 8-8, and if we had lost to Dallas, we'd have been 8-8 and still made it, holding the tie-breaker over Minny.

Seeing as 5th and 6th seeds have won the Superbowl recently (Steeler's and Giants) I would say those trying to discount our playoff appearances because we were the 6th sed are "grasping at straws". 2 winning seasons out of 4, and 2 in the past 3 season, would NOT suggest we had "ZERO" shot at the Superbowl. Any team who makes the playoffs, regardles of how, has a shot at the Superbowl. Gibbs turned us into a playoff team.:2cents:

To be honest, Minnesota lost to the Broncos at the sametime we beat the Cowboys. The point is, in both playoff appearances under Gibbs, we had to win like 4 or 5 games in a row to end the season. And lets not kid ourselves, Gibbs was no brought in to SQEEZE into the playoffs every now and then.

[elkabong82]

To be honest, Minnesota lost to the Broncos at the sametime we beat the Cowboys. The point is, in both playoff appearances under Gibbs, we had to win like 4 or 5 games in a row to end the season. And lets not kid ourselves, Gibbs was no brought in to SQEEZE into the playoffs every now and then.

No, but Gibbs was brought in, for other reasons, to make this team good. And he left having accomplished that goal. Did he accomplish every goal? No. But given realistic expectations, Gibbs, IMO, did leave this team as more of a success than a failure. Unless of course you are strictly talking Superbowl, but in that case there a lot of good coaches, even HOF ones, who would qualify as failures, And at the same time there are decent-to-average coaches who would be considered successes because they did get the SB (Switzer, for example).

BTW, 2 out of 4, isn't "every now and then" it's "half the time", unless you consider we got in 2 of his last 3 years, in which case it wuld qualify as "fairly often in his final seasons", but none of those are truly accurate.

[Guest sith lord]

No, but Gibbs was brought in, for other reasons, to make this team good. And he left having accomplished that goal. Did he accomplish every goal? No. But given realistic expectations, Gibbs, IMO, did leave this team as more of a success than a failure. Unless of course you are strictly talking Superbowl, but in that case there a lot of good coaches, even HOF ones, who would qualify as failures, And at the same time there are decent-to-average coaches who would be considered successes because they did get the SB (Switzer, for example).

BTW, 2 out of 4, isn't "every now and then" it's "half the time", unless you consider we got in 2 of his last 3 years, in which case it wuld qualify as "fairly often in his final seasons", but none of those are truly accurate.

I'll be the first to admit that Gibbs left the organization better than when he arrived, but were we ever a legitimate threat under Gibbs II?

[elkabong82]

I'll be the first to admit that Gibbs left the organization better than when he arrived, but were we ever a legitimate threat under Gibbs II?

If not for injuries, in 2005 I think we really were. Once Thomas went down though, you could see it all starting to slip away. Just my opinion though.

[Guest sith lord]

Im sorry, but a 30-34 record, any way you slice it, is failure. We had the highest paid coaching staff and one, if not the highest payroll, all we can muster is a 30-34 record over the four years of Gibbs II?

[MustangSteve]

The people who keep on bringing up the two playoffs under Gibbs is just grasping at straws. On both occassions, we had to go on end of the season winning streaks and on both occassions we were the 6th seed.

Incase someone hasnt told you yet, the reason this game is played is to win, and win enough games to get into the playoffs, and your better off entering the playoffs on a winning streak.

As far as the 6th seed, Joe Gibbs at least got us there and did it with everything going against us. Injuries to major positions, death of Sean Taylor, but the fact is he got us there, and if any fan cant appreciate that after a decade of losing seasons, then their not much of a fan.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If not for injuries, in 2005 I think we really were. Once Thomas went down though, you could see it all starting to slip away. Just my opinion though.

I wholeheartedly agree there. Having 497 year old Ray Brown start in place of Randy Thomas didn't exactly help our Super Bowl chances, needless to say. Having Renaldo Wynn go out the very next game, while not as significant an impact, did have an effect as well.

The more minor injuries to both Brunell and Portis didn't help, either. But if Thomas is starting at RG, I'm guessing Brunell has a bit more time to throw and Portis has a bit more room to run, injuries or no injuries.

[Guest sith lord]

Incase someone hasnt told you yet, the reason this game is played is to win, and win enough games to get into the playoffs, and your better off entering the playoffs on a winning streak.

As far as the 6th seed, Joe Gibbs at least got us there and did it with everything going against us. Injuries to major positions, death of Sean Taylor, but the fact is he got us there, and if any fan cant appreciate that after a decade of losing seasons, then their not much of a fan.

Here we go again, if you question Gibbs you're not a fan. Newsflash, EVERY team has injuries. Like I said, Gibbs left the Skins in better shape than he found it, but he wasn't gonna lead us to the SB.

[tr1]

Incase someone hasnt told you yet, the reason this game is played is to win, and win enough games to get into the playoffs, and your better off entering the playoffs on a winning streak.

As far as the 6th seed, Joe Gibbs at least got us there and did it with everything going against us. Injuries to major positions, death of Sean Taylor, but the fact is he got us there, and if any fan cant appreciate that after a decade of losing seasons, then their not much of a fan.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[tr1]

Here we go again, if you question Gibbs you're not a fan. Newsflash, EVERY team has injuries. Like I said, Gibbs left the Skins in better shape than he found it, but he wasn't gonna lead us to the SB.

He gave us the best shot since...since...Gibbs I.

Please, give it a rest.

[Guest sith lord]

He gave us the best shot since...since...Gibbs I.

Please, give it a rest.

But that's not saying much.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Here we go again, if you question Gibbs you're not a fan. Newsflash, EVERY team has injuries.

Just for the record, not EVERY team has injuries like what the Skins faced in 2007. I think only 5 or 6 teams lost as many starters for the year due to injury. And out of those teams, only the Redskins made the playoffs. That goes to show how difficult it is (was) to overcome the types and numbers of injuries Gibbs had to face (not to mention all the issues that went along with Sean Taylor being murdered).

I think it almost borders on insulting to diminish Gibbs' coaching last year by saying "EVERY team has injuries", as if what the Redskins and Gibbs went through is par for the course in the NFL.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

And the team that went 5-11 in '03 and was in supposed "total shambles," according to some, improved by one whole game under Gibbs in '04. And then was back to 5-11 two seasons later.

Joe is entitled to some benefit of the doubt due to what he did in the past and the fact that he was away from coaching for a while, but......just sayin'.

Huh?...I think I get what you're trying to say, but your logic threw me for a loop there...

You make it sound as if taking a team that was in "total shambles" and improving the team by one game the first year, then by 5 games and making the playoffs the following year, isn't impressive. I dunno, but going from 5-11 and in "total shambles", to 6-10 and promising, to 10-6 and the second round of the playoffs is definitely impressive. Bill Parcells does that, and everyone sings his praises. Gibbs does that, and you're more likely to hear "so what?"...Actually, Parcells went in just the opposite direction: from 10-6 and a playoff birth, to 6-10 and a losing record. It took him 3 years to make it back to the playoffs again, and he still couldn't win. Yet I damn well guarantee you that Parcells' 4-year stint will get TONS more respect than Gibbs' 4-year stint.

[Larry Brown #43]

And the team that went 5-11 in '03 and was in supposed "total shambles," according to some, improved by one whole game under Gibbs in '04. And then was back to 5-11 two seasons later.

The team was in total shambles in '03 not just because of the 5-11 record, but because we had a coach who was more interested in golf than in football and who didn't know the names of most of the players on the team. And because we had a cast of players who didn't give a crap about anything but their next paycheck.

The fact that Gibbs got the wrecked organization into the playoffs twice was pleasantly shocking. And we'll never know what would have happened in '07 if we didn't endure one of the most injury-plagued seasons in franchise history. As Califan noted, we were the only team in the league that lost as many starting players as we did that still made the playoffs.