MMA's network television debut tonight on CBS - Kimbo fights

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I wanted to get the consensus on the network television debut of Mixed Martial Arts tonight. There seems to be a thin red line between MMA lovers and haters.

Here are the questions I pose:

Are you a fan?

If you answered no, please continue:

Is it too brutal for your tastes?

Is it more brutal than American football?

Do you consider it a televised bar-fight?

How many Jui Jitsu blackbelts, olympic wrestlers, or professional muay thai fighters have you met at the bar?

Is MMA a fad, and when/why will it start to lose steam?

Is MMA more barbaric than boxing?

Well, as for boxing fans that take pride in slamming martial arts (I know you're out there), please refer to this blip taken out of today's Yahoo! article on MMA:

MMA Myths Debunked Again

Regardless, the wheezing “in my day” arguments from grey-haired boxing writers too set in their ways to learn anything new continue unabated. The mental gymnastics required to declare MMA “barbaric” while ignoring that boxing has a body count greater than every other contact sport combined make these sort of columns must-reads in their own perverse way.

In MMA, when a fight hits the ground, the referee is instructed to halt the match at the first sign the fighter on the defensive can no longer intelligently defend himself.

Boxing, on the other hand, features the standing eight count, in which a dazed pugilist who has been knocked to the mat has to immediately scramble to his feet, regardless of whether the cobwebs have cleared, and come right back out to potentially absorb more brain trauma from the person who just put him down.

Which sport is barbaric, again?

So, as for the fights tonight, you have Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson (2-0) taking on James Thompson (14-8). It will be Kimbo's biggest test thus far, although they'll be feeding him low-rung fighters like Thompson for his next few fights. He should win, maybe by TKO (Dive) , but should still be good to watch.

Yikes...to ease your eyes...take a look at the lady who is in action tonight, Ms. Gina Carano

Sure, EliteXC (the fight promotion) is basically the Triple A league of MMA, but Kimbo Slice and Gina Carano are relatively two of the biggest names in the sport. Who's gonna watch?

[StillUnknown]

MMA is human ****fighting and i do not support it

[BigMike619]

wait, a girl is fighting? Is it bad that Im going to be watching it in my underwear?

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

MMA is human ****fighting and i do not support it

:laugh: I am NOT voting for you.

[herrmag]

Kimbo is the most well-rounded fighter I've ever had the pleasure of watching fight. I expect a ground war in his battle versus Thompson. I can't wait!

Are the female fighters going to be in a mud pit or a baby pool with white t-shirts?

[rincewind]

wait, a girl is fighting? Is it bad that Im going to be watching it in my underwear?

You're going to wear underwear?

[BigMike619]

You're going to wear underwear?

so....many...jokes....

must.....not....get....banned!! :laugh:

[Teller]

I wanted to get the consensus on the network television debut of Mixed Martial Arts tonight. There seems to be a thin red line between MMA lovers and haters.

Here are the questions I pose:

Are you a fan? VERY casual fan, so I'll say no. (Though I do enjoy the sport when I see it.)

If you answered no, please continue:

Is it too brutal for your tastes? No way.

Is it more brutal than American football? The sports are too different to compare.

Do you consider it a televised bar-fight? No. I think the sanctioning and rules in place do a pretty good job of preventing serious/permanent injury.

How many Jui Jitsu blackbelts, olympic wrestlers, or professional muay thai fighters have you met at the bar? None that I know of.

Is MMA a fad, and when/why will it start to lose steam? Network TV is the best move they can make. I stopped being a boxing fan when the era of "Wide World of Sports" died, and everything went to PPV. Make it accessible, and people will access it; poor economy or not.

Is MMA more barbaric than boxing? Again, as with football, the sports are entirely different.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

wait, a girl is fighting? Is it bad that Im going to be watching it in my underwear?

I agree with rince, no need to overdress.

[rincewind]

so....many...jokes....

must.....not....get....banned!! :laugh:

:laugh:

Yeah, I figured it was going out on a limb with the possibilities. But, damn, that girl is smoking. I would like to see her with no underwear. :hump:

[BigMike619]

isnt that the girl from American Gladiators that beat her husband?

[ACW]

Gina Carano's "Crush" on American Gladiators. Hot :drool:

I like boxing, I've been to an MMA event live once (just like boxing: GREAT live, not so much on TV IMO). I prefer boxing, because MMA IMHO has to much grappling.

EDIT: Mike, you're half right. The Gladiator you're thinking of is "Steel."

[StillUnknown]

she didn't make weight for her fight, came in 4.5lbs over the limit and had to give up 12.5% of her purse as a result.

she could very well lose tonight

[Shilsu]

No, I'm not a fan, but I'm not a hater either. I do have interest as I've been trying to watch it more, but for now, the "ground game" bores me terribly, especially when they squirm over to the ropes every couple of minutes and then reset in the middle and so on. The CBS primetime thing will definitely help me get exposed to it more.

Also, I saw a feature on ESPN and it seems like some of the top UFC fighters (even I recognize the name Tito Ortiz) think Kimbo is a joke. I wonder if they really think that or if it's just taking a stab at a future promotion.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I wanted to get the consensus on the network television debut of Mixed Martial Arts tonight. There seems to be a thin red line between MMA lovers and haters.

Here are the questions I pose:

Are you a fan? VERY casual fan, so I'll say no. (Though I do enjoy the sport when I see it.)

If you answered no, please continue:

Is it too brutal for your tastes? No way.

Is it more brutal than American football? The sports are too different to compare.

Do you consider it a televised bar-fight? No. I think the sanctioning and rules in place do a pretty good job of preventing serious/permanent injury.

How many Jui Jitsu blackbelts, olympic wrestlers, or professional muay thai fighters have you met at the bar? None that I know of.

Is MMA a fad, and when/why will it start to lose steam? Network TV is the best move they can make. I stopped being a boxing fan when the era of "Wide World of Sports" died, and everything went to PPV. Make it accessible, and people will access it; poor economy or not.

Is MMA more barbaric than boxing? Again, as with football, the sports are entirely different.

Thanks for the feedback H_H

While I agree that the sports I compared to MMA are different in many respects, brutality is, IMO, pretty easy to judge.

In my opinion, cosmetic injuries cause people to think brutality is rampant in MMA. But boxing allows people that just received concussions 10 seconds to regain their balance and absorb heavy blow after heavy blow for 12 rounds. Football has nasty bone breaking injuries, including major spinal cord injuries. Probably the most brutal bone injury in MMA history (Crocop's leg disintigration at the hands of Gabe Gonzaga) is nothing compared to injuries that happen in football, even soccer. And death hasn't happened in its 15 year span. Mostly because fights are stopped whenever the beatdown/submission has commensed. Not stopped and restarted, like in boxing, which has sometimes resulted in head-trauma deaths.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

No, I'm not a fan, but I'm not a hater either. I do have interest as I've been trying to watch it more, but for now, the "ground game" bores me terribly, especially when they squirm over to the ropes every couple of minutes and then reset in the middle and so on. The CBS primetime thing will definitely help me get exposed to it more.

Also, I saw a feature on ESPN and it seems like some of the top UFC fighters (even I recognize the name Tito Ortiz) think Kimbo is a joke. I wonder if they really think that or if it's just taking a stab at a future promotion.

It really just takes a little research to understand the basic positions and what to do while you're in them. Even listening to the commentators can get you to understand what's going on after watching a few events. It makes ground fighting 100x better once you have a basic understanding of the positions and what to do in them. Ground fighting is the biggest hump for new fans of the sport to get over, but it really isn't that big of a hump at all. Learning to execute ground skills during a fight, however, is a whole 'nother ballgame.

[StillUnknown]

Thanks for the feedback H_H

While I agree that the sports I compared to MMA are different in many respects, brutality is, IMO, pretty easy to judge.

In my opinion, cosmetic injuries cause people to think brutality is rampant in MMA. But boxing allows people that just received concussions 10 seconds to regain their balance and absorb heavy blow after heavy blow for 12 rounds. Football has nasty bone breaking injuries, including major spinal cord injuries. Probably the most brutal bone injury in MMA history (Crocop's leg disintigration at the hands of Gabe Gonzaga) is nothing compared to injuries that happen in football, even soccer. And death hasn't happened in its 15 year span. Mostly because fights are stopped whenever the beatdown/submission has commensed. Not stopped and restarted, like in boxing, which has sometimes resulted in head-trauma deaths.

to be fair there has been 1 MMA related death, Sam Vazquez died due to injuries suffered last year at a small promotions event. but you're overall point remains valid.

as for the ground game being boring, i can definitely understand how casual fans can be initially turned off by it. some ground fighting can be boring if the fighter is not trying to improve their position. on the other hand i find ground fighting between two high caliber ground guys to be my favorite part of a fight. it really becomes a game of human chess at that point with all the fighting for position, counters, and counters to those counters. you really have to think 3 or 4 moves ahead like chess. one mistake and your likely tapping or being choked.

[SkinsOrlando]

I fought carano once, she won but I did manage to slip in a few things in furing the fight.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I fought carano once, she won but I did manage to slip in a few things in furing the fight.

:laugh: What a shocker.

No really. What, a shocker?

[Teller]

In my opinion, cosmetic injuries cause people to think brutality is rampant in MMA. But boxing allows people that just received concussions 10 seconds to regain their balance and absorb heavy blow after heavy blow for 12 rounds. Football has nasty bone breaking injuries, including major spinal cord injuries. Probably the most brutal bone injury in MMA history (Crocop's leg disintigration at the hands of Gabe Gonzaga) is nothing compared to injuries that happen in football, even soccer. And death hasn't happened in its 15 year span. Mostly because fights are stopped whenever the beatdown/submission has commensed. Not stopped and restarted, like in boxing, which has sometimes resulted in head-trauma deaths.

I understand what you're saying, doublestroke. I guess what I was looking at was cumulative brutality.

Over a year, who's going to have more of a physical toll taken on their body, an NFL RB, or an active MMA fighter? I'd guess the RB. But on the other hand, I don't see that cumulative beating as "brutality." Obviously it is, but it's a different sort of brutality, IMO.

To me, brutality is the intentional infliction of pain, for the sole purpose of inflicting pain. There are other goals in football. Not so in MMA. (Of course the goal is to win, but how do you do that?)

All that being said, MMA definitely fulfills my primal urge for gratuitous violence. And like I said the rules they have in place now prevent most serious injuries, so I can still watch in good conscience.

BTW, what time is tonight's event?

[StillUnknown]

9pm(est).........

[Teller]

Sweet, thanks SU.

[SkinsOrlando]

I'll be watching tonight, with one hand free during the carano fight.

[Shilsu]

I'll be watching tonight, with one hand free during the carano fight.

:jerk:

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I understand what you're saying, doublestroke. I guess what I was looking at was cumulative brutality.

Over a year, who's going to have more of a physical toll taken on their body, an NFL RB, or an active MMA fighter? I'd guess the RB. But on the other hand, I don't see that cumulative beating as "brutality." Obviously it is, but it's a different sort of brutality, IMO.

To me, brutality is the intentional infliction of pain, for the sole purpose of inflicting pain. There are other goals in football. Not so in MMA. (Of course the goal is to win, but how do you do that?)

All that being said, MMA definitely fulfills my primal urge for gratuitous violence. And like I said the rules they have in place now prevent most serious injuries, so I can still watch in good conscience.

BTW, what time is tonight's event?

Any 1 on 1 combat sport is going to have a goal to score and inflict damage, not necessarily pain. Pain is almost a non-issue in MMA because these guys inflict a lot more pain on themselves during training than during the fight. Getting a broken nose or a big cut is easy to shrug off to these guys, as is with most well-conditioned athletes. I'd say roughly around 98% of TKO's are stopped by the ref because of overwhelming strikes or loss of conscienceness. Tapping to pain from strikes is very rare.

And the majority of the time, especially now that tapping to a submission isn't considered "dishonorable" anymore, guys will tap before breakages happen. A couple seconds of excruciating pain while waiting for the ref to answer your tap is better than laying on the gridiron with your toes touching your shin, IMO.