Malcom Kelly Draft Stock Dropping Big - Still Slow as of 4/16(merged)

[Smoot Point Really]

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Oklahoma threw Kelly under the bus by making him run on grass... Other colleges run on turf to help "improve" their performance. Anyway, his speed was assessed at the combine and compared to other WRs he ran okay. I don't think this will hurt him too badly.

BTW, none of these WRs merit a 1st round pick. Devin Thomas appears to be the one player who can be a 1st round pick, predominantly on the fact that he can play WR and return kicks.

[mistertim]

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Oklahoma threw Kelly under the bus by making him run on grass... Other colleges run on turf to help "improve" their performance. Anyway, his speed was assessed at the combine and compared to other WRs he ran okay. I don't think this will hurt him too badly.

BTW, none of these WRs merit a 1st round pick. Devin Thomas appears to be the one player who can be a 1st round pick, predominantly on the fact that he can play WR and return kicks.

Kelly didn't run at the combine.

[MartinC]

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Oklahoma threw Kelly under the bus by making him run on grass... Other colleges run on turf to help "improve" their performance. Anyway, his speed was assessed at the combine and compared to other WRs he ran okay. I don't think this will hurt him too badly.

BTW, none of these WRs merit a 1st round pick. Devin Thomas appears to be the one player who can be a 1st round pick, predominantly on the fact that he can play WR and return kicks.

He ran on field turf which is exactly the same surface used at the combine. Also he did not run at the combine due to a quad injury.

Personally I think too much is made of 40 times but this time will make a few teams think hard, this alongside his knee issues could well drop him into the second round.

[angel2]

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that Oklahoma threw Kelly under the bus by making him run on grass... Other colleges run on turf to help "improve" their performance. Anyway, his speed was assessed at the combine and compared to other WRs he ran okay. I don't think this will hurt him too badly.

BTW, none of these WRs merit a 1st round pick. Devin Thomas appears to be the one player who can be a 1st round pick, predominantly on the fact that he can play WR and return kicks.

What are you talking about?

Kelly did not participate at this year's combine. How could his speed be assessed at the combine when he didn't do anything there.

We don't need a Kick Returner - we have several of those players in-house already. Please get your facts right before offering your opinions.

[2006Skins]

Just some additional info...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=4656

Kelly will be taping a performance for scouts and teams with him running on astro turf.

It probably won't help his stock and some are now projecting he'll go in the 3rd round. :yikes:

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Just some additional info...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=4656

Kelly will be taping a performance for scouts and teams with him running on astro turf.

It probably won't help his stock and some are now projecting he'll go in the 3rd round. :yikes:

Unless his knee issues are that bad, he's worth a third for sure especially with the comp picks we have.

[mistertim]

Just some additional info...

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=4656

Kelly will be taping a performance for scouts and teams with him running on astro turf.

It probably won't help his stock and some are now projecting he'll go in the 3rd round. :yikes:

For some reason this reminds me of the Uncle in Napoleon Dynamite when he was taping himself throwing the football. :laugh:

[Smoot Point Really]

What are you talking about?

Kelly did not participate at this year's combine. How could his speed be assessed at the combine when he didn't do anything there.

We don't need a Kick Returner - we have several of those players in-house already. Please get your facts right before offering your opinions.

I guess I'm wrong... I saw this site that said he ran a 4.58... I had assumed it was at the combine.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=57212

[angel2]

I guess I'm wrong... I saw this site that said he ran a 4.58... I had assumed it was at the combine.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=57212

Hey, all is forgiving. I make mistakes too.

Here's a blurr from KFFL.com about Kelly you might be interested in:

"Kelly was complaining that he had prepared for his workout on AstroTurf, a field covering that undoubtedly makes players run faster but is no longer used in the NFL. Instead of testing on the surface, OU moved the event to a venue with FieldTurf, a softer, more forgiving covering that isn't quite as fast as AstroTurf. FieldTurf is the covering of choice in today's NFL, and the difference in timed speeds is next to nil. To bottom line it, Kelly is slow and doesn't seem to want to accept that. The speed isn't what will be the death of his draft stock. His attitude toward the situation bordered absurdity, throwing Oklahoma's strength and conditioning coach Jerry Schmidt under the bus. Kelly effectively blamed Schmidt for "holding him down." Despite issuing an apology, the damage has been done. Kelly is holding a private workout, and by private we mean private - no NFL scouts will be in attendance! He is video taping the workout and sending it to every team. Wow! Kelly probably knocked himself out of the first round, but he should still be a top-50 draft pick."

They include these running events in the combine program for a reason. They represent standards to judge performance and balance of a players natural abilities with that player's feet and leg strength.

Because player "A" runs faster in the fourty times than player "B" is a good indication that player "A" can hold his own under duress and can escape pressures applied by DBs.

Grant you, the speed of which a player runs is a by product of the intent of the fourty competition at the combine event. Sure, he will be judged as having good speed afoot. Does he run with balance and under control is the issue.

When I see a guy in control while running the fourty, I see a guy who can use his balance, and yes, natural speed as an asset for my team. If you like a certain player that did not perform that well in the fourty, I'm sure you will find all the irrational theories under the sun to make your case for that player.

In Kelly's case, I find it laughable how some posters come up with other players that did not perform well in that event but, here's the catcher, not one of those players have been quoted as complaining about their speed or the surface in the fourty event.

[Smoot Point Really]

Hey, all is forgiving. I make mistakes too.

Here's a blurr from KFFL.com about Kelly you might be interested in:

"Kelly was complaining that he had prepared for his workout on AstroTurf, a field covering that undoubtedly makes players run faster but is no longer used in the NFL. Instead of testing on the surface, OU moved the event to a venue with FieldTurf, a softer, more forgiving covering that isn't quite as fast as AstroTurf. FieldTurf is the covering of choice in today's NFL, and the difference in timed speeds is next to nil. To bottom line it, Kelly is slow and doesn't seem to want to accept that. The speed isn't what will be the death of his draft stock. His attitude toward the situation bordered absurdity, throwing Oklahoma's strength and conditioning coach Jerry Schmidt under the bus. Kelly effectively blamed Schmidt for "holding him down." Despite issuing an apology, the damage has been done. Kelly is holding a private workout, and by private we mean private - no NFL scouts will be in attendance! He is video taping the workout and sending it to every team. Wow! Kelly probably knocked himself out of the first round, but he should still be a top-50 draft pick."

They include these running events in the combine program for a reason. They represent standards to judge performance and balance of a players natural abilities with that player's feet and leg strength.

Because player "A" runs faster in the fourty times than player "B" is a good indication that player "A" can hold his own under duress and can escape pressures applied by DBs.

Grant you, the speed of which a player runs is a by product of the intent of the fourty competition at the combine event. Sure, he will be judged as having good speed afoot. Does he run with balance and under control is the issue.

When I see a guy in control while running the fourty, I see a guy who can use his balance, and yes, natural speed as an asset for my team. If you like a certain player that did not perform that well in the fourty, I'm sure you will find all the irrational theories under the sun to make your case for that player.

In Kelly's case, I find it laughable how some posters come up with other players that did not perform well in that event but, here's the catcher, not one of those players have been quoted as complaining about their speed or the surface in the fourty event.

First, I don't want us to draft a WR in the 1st round and I don't really care for Malcolm Kelly unless he is the best player on the board when we happen to pick on day 2 some timedd. HOWEVER, I can see from his point of view that they shouldn't have changed the venue. Why change? Other players didn't complain, but what other players were working out who rely on speed and didn't already have a showing at the combine?

This was his one shot... I've never actually heard of a team changing the venue, ever! BTW, if it's a "slower" surface, then why say it's "next to nil"... If it's "softer", it will be slower... There is no "next to nil" when making changes like this. IMO, any change is unacceptable if you have the players best interest in mind. Pro-day is to showcase the player... It's not really a day for scouts.

BTW, Sweed isn't a great pickup in my mind either. Everything that I've seen of Sweed shows the guy going down on contact from NCAA cornerbacks. His YAC potential ain't that impressive (from what I've seen). I've been asking for someone to prove me wrong on this for about a month.

If we take either of these two players in the 1st round, I'll be disappointed... However, I'll support them and hope I was wrong.

[angel2]

First, I don't want us to draft a WR in the 1st round and I don't really care for Malcolm Kelly unless he is the best player on the board when we happen to pick on day 2 some timedd. HOWEVER, I can see from his point of view that they shouldn't have changed the venue. Why change? Other players didn't complain, but what other players were working out who rely on speed and didn't already have a showing at the combine?

BTW, Sweed isn't a great pickup in my mind either. Everything that I've seen of Sweed shows the guy going down on contact from NCAA cornerbacks. His YAC potential ain't that impressive (from what I've seen). I've been asking for someone to prove me wrong on this for about a month.

If we take either of these two players in the 1st round, I'll be disappointed... However, I'll support them and hope I was wrong.

I used to run track on various surfaces and if I recall correctly, a softer surface gives you more bounce to allow you to dig in and push off with more body control. Running faster depends on your ability to control your body on whatever surface you compete on. As I said before, no one who has run on whatever surface has complain about their performance except this guy. Let's see what his times will be with his next "closed pro day".

Let's see, Kelly will have a close work out that excludes NFL personnel who could validate his performance. What's wrong with this picture? Is this guy for real? And you think he is right? OMG, standards are being put to the test just because some guy wants to run on a surface that the NFL doesn't employ on game day.

When you say you don't fault Kelly for being upset about the venue being change is fuc%ing rediculous. Every player that attended these combine and pro day work outs are probably laughing their asssss off at this clown that you find no fault in for standing up for himself. So why doesn't he invite the press and the NFL people to his next running if he knows he can run faster on the surface of his choice?

I would take Sweed over this clown any day, he is tougher and a professional competitor unlike your Kelly guy even in the first round. So go ahead and put your blinders back on and keep sticking up for the victims, such as Kelly.

[skinsince72]

The guy isn't slow. What we should be thinking about is how does he run his routes and how will he match up against NFL corners? A slower receiver can still burn a corner with crisp route running and body movements. Kelly is big and looks good on highlight films against corners that may not even be drafted. An NFL scout probably doesn't put a lot of stock into a 40 time over 4.5 but under 4.8.

[Smoot Point Really]

As I said before, no one who has run on whatever surface has complain about their performance except this guy.

How many of those who didn't complain had to sit out the combine? A poor performance on less than ideal conditions wouldn't mean much to someone who ran well at the combine.

When you say you don't fault Kelly for being upset about the venue being change is fuc%ing rediculous. Every player that attended these combine and pro day work outs are probably laughing their asssss off at this clown that you find no fault in for standing up for himself. So why doesn't he invite the press and the NFL people to his next running if he knows he can run faster on the surface of his choice?

So it is SOP for a school to change the venue? I've never actually heard of any university changing the venue for its Pro Day... THAT is what I am taking issue with. I'm not arguing that this guy is somewhat faster than his time showed. What I'm arguing is that the school shouldn't be mucking with venues on the day that their players are auditioning for the NFL. YOU want to blame the player... I want to instead ask, WTF is the school doing making such a change?

BTW, there are 3 weeks to the draft... His agent might try to schedule something like you are talking about, but why would anyone come? To see one guy run a 40? Travel expenses? There are other pro-days to go to and less than 2 weeks to the draft. His best chance is to go visit teams and bring his workout clothes with him.

I would take Sweed over this clown any day, he is tougher and a professional competitor unlike your Kelly guy even in the first round. So go ahead and put your blinders back on and keep sticking up for the victims, such as Kelly.

Look... I don't like Kelly... I don't like Sweed either. I also think you are acting like a bit of a douche here... Kelly is in the right to complain if his school changed the venue. That is all I'm saying. Name one school that changed the venue prior to their pro-day and didn't have any complaints and I'll confess that there is at least one school as dumb as the Sooners. Pro-days are for the schools to showcase their athletes under as ideal of conditions as they can provide. The NFL scouts don't schedule Pro-Days... The school schedules the Pro-Day and invites the scouts. The school has control over all conditions except the weather.

BTW, if Sweed is so great... Show me film of him breaking a tackle. I've been asking for this for about a month. The guy has shown he has what it takes to get open against NCAA cornerbacks, but for his size he should be getting more than a few YAC.

None of these WRs are worth risking a late 1st round pick on, except maybe the Spartan. Still, I'd rather have a DL, OL, CB or S in the 1st round. Get the BPA and hope it's one of those four positions.

[angel2]

First, I don't want us to draft a WR in the 1st round and I don't really care for Malcolm Kelly unless he is the best player on the board when we happen to pick on day 2 some timedd. HOWEVER, I can see from his point of view that they shouldn't have changed the venue. Why change? Other players didn't complain, but what other players were working out who rely on speed and didn't already have a showing at the combine?

This was his one shot... I've never actually heard of a team changing the venue, ever! BTW, if it's a "slower" surface, then why say it's "next to nil"... If it's "softer", it will be slower... There is no "next to nil" when making changes like this. IMO, any change is unacceptable if you have the players best interest in mind. Pro-day is to showcase the player... It's not really a day for scouts.

BTW, Sweed isn't a great pickup in my mind either. Everything that I've seen of Sweed shows the guy going down on contact from NCAA cornerbacks. His YAC potential ain't that impressive (from what I've seen). I've been asking for someone to prove me wrong on this for about a month.

If we take either of these two players in the 1st round, I'll be disappointed... However, I'll support them and hope I was wrong.

Of all the WRs in this draft - and bar none - Limas Sweep is the top performer and worthy of the first round pick at #21. That's my bias opinion. I like him and he shows me something good in the way he carries himself off the field, too.

I've noticed how players like Owens, Moss, Toomer, and even Jerry Rice knew how to fall at angles away the point of impact in order to be successful at their WR position. Kelly and some others don't show that technique in their repetoire. Out of stupidy they jump up after a hard knock and pretend as if they weren't phased at all by the encounter. These players will substain injuries.

I will take the college graduate who is an excellent WR and has great speed over some guy who is slow as hell and always ****ing. You tell the guy you don't want to stop his ****ing at the process he willingly participated in - no one said he should compete.

He rolled the diced and came up short and then decided to save face by complaining about the surface. A runner can run on any surface. Now I didn't say run faster than anyone else, but he can run or choice not to.

Stop excusing mediocrIty. The guy that you don't like is fu#king slow. And the other people out their who are suggesting the Skins draft him have got to be trolls. We take Kelly and leave the best for them to choose over.

IT WON'T HAPPEN you TROLLIES. :loser: :loser:

[angel2]

How many of those who didn't complain had to sit out the combine? A poor performance on less than ideal conditions wouldn't mean much to someone who ran well at the combine..

Moot point my assss. I don't know how many and stop trying to gardner up "what ifs". You go with what God has given you. Nothing else is promised in life. The NFL is full with guys who did not give in to complaints but the NFL is full with guys who gave it their all.

So it is SOP for a school to change the venue? I've never actually heard of any university changing the venue for its Pro Day... THAT is what I am taking issue with. I'm not arguing that this guy is somewhat faster than his time showed. What I'm arguing is that the school shouldn't be mucking with venues on the day that their players are auditioning for the NFL. YOU want to blame the player... I want to instead ask, WTF is the school doing making such a change?

You are saying that OU picked on Malcom Kelly and wanted him to fail. What do they gain from that action? Poor Malcom, he's a victim. Give me a break!

BTW, there are 3 weeks to the draft... His agent might try to schedule something like you are talking about, but why would anyone come? To see one guy run a 40? Travel expenses? There are other pro-days to go to and less than 2 weeks to the draft. His best chance is to go visit teams and bring his workout clothes with him.

They will do a private re-run of the fourty on Astroturf and video tape the results (undoctored, yup, uhh uh) and send a copy to each team. What the fu#k for? Malcom is slow and can't cover his rear end on that fact.

Look... I don't like Kelly... I don't like Sweed either. I also think you are acting like a bit of a douche here... Kelly is in the right to complain if his school changed the venue. That is all I'm saying. Name one school that changed the venue prior to their pro-day and didn't have any complaints and I'll confess that there is at least one school as dumb as the Sooners. Pro-days are for the schools to showcase their athletes under as ideal of conditions as they can provide. The NFL scouts don't schedule Pro-Days... The school schedules the Pro-Day and invites the scouts. The school has control over all conditions except the weather.

I never said anything else. The school has control not the participant. If they change things I'm sure they informed all those guys who would compete, don't you think? Why would they pick on poor ole' Malcom?

BTW, if Sweed is so great... Show me film of him breaking a tackle. I've been asking for this for about a month. The guy has shown he has what it takes to get open against NCAA cornerbacks, but for his size he should be getting more than a few YAC.

Go to youtube.com and search video of Limas Sweed. Stop with the misinformation about Sweed and while you are at it, visit NFL.com and do the same search.

None of these WRs are worth risking a late 1st round pick on, except maybe the Spartan. Still, I'd rather have a DL, OL, CB or S in the 1st round. Get the BPA and hope it's one of those four positions.

I like Sweed and I would take him in the first, period.

[angel2]

Yes, 40 times and vertical leaps are nice, but people tend to forget a few key components when judging a WR..

1. Catching the ball

2. Getting Open

Kelly does both very well. Great footwork.....

Was that good footwork before his injuries? And what about his speed? Is that also one of his attributes?

You are in denial my friend. Kelly is SOOO SLOWWWWWwww! Sh#t wagons going down a hill in January in Alaska are faster.

[angel2]

The guy isn't slow. What we should be thinking about is how does he run his routes and how will he match up against NFL corners? A slower receiver can still burn a corner with crisp route running and body movements. Kelly is big and looks good on highlight films against corners that may not even be drafted. An NFL scout probably doesn't put a lot of stock into a 40 time over 4.5 but under 4.8.

Will you be willing to push Kelly out of his stance and launch him into his route? This guy is soooo slowwww he will be waiting for you to get him into position to aim him into his pattern.

Did I say he is soooo slowwww?

We don't need another WR in the slot - we have SPEED there, at least more than what Kelly can mustard up.

[Smoot Point Really]

Go to youtube.com and search video of Limas Sweed. Stop with the misinformation about Sweed and while you are at it, visit NFL.com and do the same search.

I like Sweed and I would take him in the first, period.

Here is where you are showing your bias... I've never picked any of those WRs in the 1st round. Maybe the Spartan, if he is BPA when we pick.

I have gone to YouTube and looked at the "highlights"... If those are highlights, then I don't want Limas Sweed. Every single highlight is of him making a catch and falling down. His college career wasn't all that impressive, and I don't believe it justifies you lathering yourself over him. It's not like this guy is Calvin Johnson (btw, have a look at CJ's highlights again and compare them to Sweed...). Calvin Johnson faced double-coverage every play and didn't have Vince Young and Colt McCoy throwing to him.

[MaN-BeAsT21]

Although im not a big fan of drafting a WR in the 1st round this year, im actually quite happy that Malcolm Kelly's stock is dropping as we can steal him in the 2nd round . Speed clearly shouldnt be the main reason a player's stock drops . Larry Fitzgeral ran a 4.63 , as did Marques Colston. Jerry rice ran 4.7 -4.8 and became the greatest receiver of all time .(Emmitt Smith ran a 4.7-4.8 as well for RB) Im not making any comparaisons whatsoever , but Kelly has great hands , the size and runs solid routes , which i find can be more beneficial then just speed. Reggie Wayne doesnt have that 4.3 speed , but runs great routes , has amazing hands and knows how to get open and has a great presence on the field.

Santana and Randel El do a great job at getting downfield and have the speed to stretch the field , but Malcolm Kelly would be a big presence in the middle of the field and can be a the red zone target we've been lacking . His 4.68 time wasnt the best, but his hands and skill make up for it , and IMO if he drops to the 2nd round then so be it , bring him in ...!!

[cmorina69]

Im way more worryed about the knees than the speed. We don't need a burner thats what we have Moss for, we need a big body guy to go across the middle and for in the red zone. We have a good slot guy in ARE but we need a big guy. Im likeing Jordy Nelson alot, Sweed looks good to. People are making a HUGE deal out of 40 times like they always do, its all about GAME SPEED.

[mistertim]

Here is where you are showing your bias... I've never picked any of those WRs in the 1st round. Maybe the Spartan, if he is BPA when we pick.

I have gone to YouTube and looked at the "highlights"... If those are highlights, then I don't want Limas Sweed. Every single highlight is of him making a catch and falling down. His college career wasn't all that impressive, and I don't believe it justifies you lathering yourself over him. It's not like this guy is Calvin Johnson (btw, have a look at CJ's highlights again and compare them to Sweed...). Calvin Johnson faced double-coverage every play and didn't have Vince Young and Colt McCoy throwing to him.

I'm assuming you also don't want Kelly. Check out his highlights. Half of them are of him catching a ball and getting tackled immediately. I've watched his highlights from his 06 and 07 years and I'm confused as to where this idea that he is some sort of tackle breaking YAC monster came from. He didn't break many tackles at all, and he isn't even very elusive.

[angel2]

Here is where you are showing your bias... I've never picked any of those WRs in the 1st round. Maybe the Spartan, if he is BPA when we pick.

I have gone to YouTube and looked at the "highlights"... If those are highlights, then I don't want Limas Sweed. Every single highlight is of him making a catch and falling down. His college career wasn't all that impressive, and I don't believe it justifies you lathering yourself over him. It's not like this guy is Calvin Johnson (btw, have a look at CJ's highlights again and compare them to Sweed...). Calvin Johnson faced double-coverage every play and didn't have Vince Young and Colt McCoy throwing to him.

Hey, you have got to be a TROLL. You are the biggest BSer on this forum.

YES, I am bias towards Sweed. I have said this many times. And what is your BIAS? Are you that gentil that you can't accept someone elses suggestion. I will state this for you with my BIAS opinion: Sweed, in my opinion, is the only first round legitimate pick of all the WRs. You disagree, fine. But this my opinion.

If you have gone to the websites I mentioned for you to look at in order to judge Limas and come up with your opinion, fine.

We should just agree to disagree, don't you think?

[angel2]

Although im not a big fan of drafting a WR in the 1st round this year, im actually quite happy that Malcolm Kelly's stock is dropping as we can steal him in the 2nd round . Speed clearly shouldnt be the main reason a player's stock drops . Larry Fitzgeral ran a 4.63 , as did Marques Colston. Jerry rice ran 4.7 -4.8 and became the greatest receiver of all time .(Emmitt Smith ran a 4.7-4.8 as well for RB) Im not making any comparaisons whatsoever , but Kelly has great hands , the size and runs solid routes , which i find can be more beneficial then just speed. Reggie Wayne doesnt have that 4.3 speed , but runs great routes , has amazing hands and knows how to get open and has a great presence on the field.

Santana and Randel El do a great job at getting downfield and have the speed to stretch the field , but Malcolm Kelly would be a big presence in the middle of the field and can be a the red zone target we've been lacking . His 4.68 time wasnt the best, but his hands and skill make up for it , and IMO if he drops to the 2nd round then so be it , bring him in ...!!

Dude, the guy is sooo slowwwww that it's a ridiculous pike dream on your part to think that he can get to the draft party in time to celebrate his selection. We don't need another big, slow and a character risk guy. Mark my word, Kelly is a cry baby and nothing but trouble.

[MaN-BeAsT21]

Although he has busted knees , i would have loved to see his 40 time when he was healthy . Im becoming more and more a fan of James Hardy although at 21st it might be too much of a reach for a guy that doesnt have the crisp route running and ability to exploit weaknesses in the defense..... With all the pro's and con's at Wide Receiver in this years draft class , it might be best for us to draft towards a positional need , OG Brandon Albert , seems to be the the safest pick (if he makes it to 21st) ..

[mistertim]

Although he has busted knees , i would have loved to see his 40 time when he was healthy . Im becoming more and more a fan of James Hardy although at 21st it might be too much of a reach for a guy that doesnt have the crisp route running and ability to exploit weaknesses in the defense..... With all the pro's and con's at Wide Receiver in this years draft class , it might be best for us to draft towards a positional need , OG Brandon Albert , seems to be the the safest pick (if he makes it to 21st) ..

The problem is that with all the hype around him right now he is unlikely to be there at 21. So let's say Albert is gone and none of the studs take a plunge to 21 (Long, Gholston, Dorsey, etc). Sweed is still on the board and so is a guy like Balmer at DT or perhaps Merling at DE. Figure the top CBs are probably gone too. Who would you pick and why?