heyholetsgogrant Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 U.S. Stocks Retreat on Recession Concern; Refiners, Banks DropBy Eric Martin March 12 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell for the fourth time in five days on concern the Federal Reserve will fail to prevent a recession as oil climbed above $110 a barrel, pushing down refiners, retailers and banks. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 211 points from its midday high as oil rose. Sunoco Inc., the largest refiner in the U.S. Northeast, dropped the most since 1995 after Caris & Co. said demand may decrease. Humana Inc. led shares of health insurers to a three-year low on a reduced earnings forecast. Financial firms, which led the market to its biggest gain in five years yesterday, helped erase a quarter of that rally. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index lost 11.88 points, or 0.9 percent, to 1,308.77. The Dow slipped 46.57 points, or 0.4 percent, to 12,110.24. The Nasdaq Composite Index decreased 11.89, or 0.5 percent, to 2,243.87. Two stocks dropped for every one that rose on the New York Stock Exchange. ``There's a tremendous amount of uncertainty,'' said Joseph Keating, who helps manage about $3 billion as chief investment officer at First American Asset Management in Birmingham, Alabama. ``There's not a road map to how this will all play out, the combination of the unprecedented seizure we've seen in the credit markets as well as an unprecedented drop in home prices.'' Nine of 10 industries in the S&P 500 fell after Merrill Lynch & Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and others said the Fed's plan may not eliminate gridlock in credit markets. The S&P 500 rallied the most since October 2002 yesterday after the central bank said it would pump $200 billion into the banking system to shore up financial firms battered by $188 million in losses and writedowns related to the subprime mortgage market's collapse. Source: Bloomberg Full Article Click Here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7txMmO6bwH0&refer=home ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Man we need alternative fuels, we are looking at $4 a gallon by spring :doh: -Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Man we need alternative fuels, we are looking at $4 a gallon by spring :doh: -Grant Already here in some places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Oil is going to hit 200 soon. Mark my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ted Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 i was shocked to see diesel almost hitting 4 bucks down here in southern md. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 ****ing price gouging *******s. Watch it hit 4 bucks a gallon and then watch the oil companies post record profits once again. They really have us bent over and grabbing our ankles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ted Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 ****ing price gouging *******s.Watch it hit 4 bucks a gallon and then watch the oil companies post record profits once again. They really have us bent over and grabbing our ankles. they have record quarters every quarter. they were making tons of cash when gas was $1/gal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 What is the relation between refiners stock dropping and oil futures rising? Demand is gonna drop,yet oil will rise?....The speculators are :doh1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ted Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 the economy is crap, when its crap folks flock to commodities. Gold, Plat, silver, coal, grain and other stuff are at an all time high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 What is the relation between refiners stock dropping and oil futures rising?Demand is gonna drop,yet oil will rise?....The speculators are :doh1: well the barrel is traded at the dollar and it continues to plummet: "Dollar Falls to Lowest Since '95 Versus Yen; Bush Cites Decline" http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKp6BNjYYqmk&refer=home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 dahdahhaha The U.S. currency also slid to a record low against the euro as Bush said its decline was not ``good tidings'' for proponents of a strong dollar.[/Quote]bah who would want that right bush? thank you bush for being the worst president in my lifetime and completely driving the country into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 they have record quarters every quarter. they were making tons of cash when gas was $1/gal Oh, not like this. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Oh, not like this. Not even close. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. It's unbelievable what they're getting away with...and the upsetting thing is that the majority of the American public will just take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Yeah, that's what I was about to say.It's unbelievable what they're getting away with...and the upsetting thing is that the majority of the American public will just take it. What are they getting away with? Making the most money from their product that they can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I think we should invade an oil producing country. and take theirs! Say we spend like 500 billion on this effort. Then divide that cost by the amount of US Citizens. Give that to each person in the form of a gas credit card. What is that? 12K? give or take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 the economy is crap, when its crap folks flock to commodities. Gold, Plat, silver, coal, grain and other stuff are at an all time high Interesting. That would certainly explain a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 What are they getting away with?Making the most money from their product that they can? The quasi-cartel structure of the oil refining business does not promote price competition. I'm not saying they are breaking the law - I am saying that the market is broken. It is not a free competitive. Oil refiners couldn't NOT make money hand over fist no matter how badly they are run. Good thing I own Exxon and Chevron stock or I'd be really pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Maybe one day the Dems and enviro whack jobs will let us actually drill for our own oil. Or build a refinery. Or build a nuke plant Wonder how high gas has to get before they let that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Maybe one day the Dems and enviro whack jobs will let us actually drill for our own oil. Or build a refinery. Or build a nuke plantWonder how high gas has to get before they let that happen? And it was such a happy thread. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ted Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Oh, not like this. Not even close. my point is they were making tons of money back then, think about it now. oil companies are taking advantage of the times and burning holes in our pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The quasi-cartel structure of the oil refining business does not promote price competition. I'm not saying they are breaking the law - I am saying that the market is broken. It is not a free competitive. Oil refiners couldn't NOT make money hand over fist no matter how badly they are run. Good thing I own Exxon and Chevron stock or I'd be really pissed. Ideally in essentially any market their would be more competition, but I'm not really sure that the market is really broken vs. a small group of people (and organizations) looking at the same information and drawing the same conclusion. Now, if laws changed so that new (especially by different companies) refineries changed, I don't doubt that prices would come down, but I can't really blame the oil companies for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 well the barrel is traded at the dollar and it continues to plummet:"Dollar Falls to Lowest Since '95 Versus Yen; Bush Cites Decline" http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKp6BNjYYqmk&refer=home 95? ...wasn't those the golden yrs? You mean it is in that good of shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Does anyone else wonder why CNN and the other news sources post "Oil breaks new record" every day? The new record just breaks the previous day's record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Ideally in essentially any market their would be more competition, but I'm not really sure that the market is really broken vs. a small group of people (and organizations) looking at the same information and drawing the same conclusion.Now, if laws changed so that new (especially by different companies) refineries changed, I don't doubt that prices would come down, but I can't really blame the oil companies for that. There is more to it than that. There is strategic shut down of refineries and plenty of other gamesmanship to maximize revenues, things that are only possible due to market overconcentration. Remember, there used to be well over a dozen major oil companies, but they all merged with each other so they wouldn't have to compete with each other. Remember Gulf, and Texaco, and Mobil and all the rest? Long gone. However, as long as the few that are left don't actively collaborate with each other, technically no antitrust laws are broken. And they can charge whatever they want and mint money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 There is more to it than that. There is strategic shut down of refineries and plenty of other gamesmanship to maximize revenues, things that are only possible due to market overconcentration. Remember, there used to be well over a dozen major oil companies, but they all merged with each other so they wouldn't have to compete with each other. Remember Gulf, and Texaco, and Mobil and all the rest? Long gone.However, as long as the few that are left don't actively collaborate with each other, technically no antitrust laws are broken. And they can charge whatever they want and mint money. I don't necessarily disagree. You make it seem like the oil company mergers are different than any other mergers. Assuming that across the board that oil companies looked at the same facts and concluded that it is in their best interest to maximize their profits, what is the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I think we should invade an oil producing country.and take theirs! Say we spend like 500 billion on this effort. Then divide that cost by the amount of US Citizens. Give that to each person in the form of a gas credit card. What is that? 12K? give or take? Well, Iraq hasn't worked out too well. I say we invade Russia. They have the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.