Do we really need a corner that bad?

[RedskinDan0557]

Well, keep posting it and I'll keep saying that we don't need to use any of our first 3 picks on a CB.

We need to concentrate on rushing the passer and protecting Jason Campbell next year.

The trenches are where it's won. Look at the last few Super Bowl champs they've all had stout offensive lines and a nasty pass-rush.

I definitely agree that games are won in the trenches. However, that doesn't mean the Skins should reach on a DT/DE in the 1st. So, who should the Skins take in the 1st?

The following players are all likely to be gone: Dorsey, Ellis, Long, Gholston, Merling and Harvey. So are you in the Campbell camp or the Balmer camp?

About the only 1st round caliber lineman likely to be left at 21 is OG Branden Albert. Although it would be a slight reach, I wouldn't be too displeased by this.

BTW, Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, and Jeff Otah are also likely to be gone by 21.

[Thinking Skins]

I realize Springs is getting up there in age, but he is still good. I know Carlos isn't coming back until maybe midseason, but he played well last year when he was in. Smoot played incredibly. Should we really use a first round pick on a corner?

Cromartie is good, but I don't think he is what we need the most. Torrence played alright, and we can always draft someone in the 3rd or later for depth.

We do need a big wide reciever, that will most likely come in the first round (if we dont pick one up in free agency or draft DL). Our OL is very good when healthy, I still think we can wait a year or two to draft OL. We do need some pressure on the QB, but I'm also not sure if someone will be there at 21 to pick thats worth it.

"still good" is an understatement for Springs. The guy was at the top of his game at the end of last year and may have had one of the best seasons of his career and people are talking about replacing him. Its just crazy.

Carlos played well too. Minus the dropsies and he's a pro-bowler. And Smoot was a consistent starter.

Carlos's injury is a problem and a concern, but we're fine going into the season with Smoot and Springs as our starting corners. Thats a combo that beats so many teams top two in the league right now. We may be able to pick somebody up to compete for 3rd CB, but we don't need to go out and sign a starter.

[Thinking Skins]

With the offenses today you need a decent 3rd or even 4th CB. I think we would be awfully thin going into the season with Springs, Smoot and a cast of others.

I would much rather we addressed it now than go digging in dumpsters mid-season like we were forced to do last year.

personally i think we do ONLY cuz of the injru to carlos rogers. his injury was pretty severe and they dont know how well hes gonna do.

You said it yourself, Rogers' injury will take a while and Shawn is aging. We need to at least add some depth their in the later rounds, but I wouldn't be completely against getting a decent player like Cromartie either. I'd rather pick a corner at 21 then a receiver; much more depth at receiver in later rounds.

We do need a corner badly, highlighted by the injury to Rogers. And you're right, Springs can still play but is getting up there in age. Smoot is good but erratic. None of our backups are that good(Eubanks, Torrence). It is actually a critical need, especially with offenses as versatile as they are. I wouldn't say a first round pick is necessary though, you can find good nickel corners in the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th rounds. D-linemen first, because pass rush is the most important part of a defense.

I've posted this before, and I'll just keep posting it.

The Skins should and will draft a corner in the first three rounds for the below reasons.

1. It's unclear how well and how soon Rogers will recover.

2. Smoot is best-suited as a nickelback.

3. Springs is oft-injured and not likely to return next year.

4. Corners usually take a while to adjust to the pros, so we're already up against it to develop Springs' replacement.

5. We have draft picks for a change, so in the first three rounds we can address Oline, Dline, and still have a pick left for corner.

I'm not in favor of trading for Hall.

I'm hoping DRC falls to 21. I'd rather the Skins take DRC in the 1st instead of reaching on a DT/DE. Also, I wouldn't mind CB Tracy Porter in the 2nd instead, but I'm not sure he'll fall that far. If the Skins pass on CB in the 1st, it could get very dicey.

All of this is predicated on my belief that the Skins need to find a future replacement for Springs - a #1 or #2 CB, not just a nickelback.

Yes Yes Yes Yes

I don't get all these statements about our secondary. People who say that we have such a bad secondart with Smoot, Springs, Landry and Doughty, I'm curious to know where they think this secondary ranks in the NFC east or the NFL in general? In that same regard, where do you think we rank in the NFC east or the NFL on the defensive line?

What criteria are you all using to judge whether we NEED a CB? Just because the guys we have starting didn't make the pro bowl? Or because they aren't top 5 corners? How many other teams have top corners? How many playoff teams had a defense that could provide consistent pressure? Are you all going to be praying on us getting pressure sacks again this year?

And for all you talking about Springs's age, what about Daniels's age? At least Springs had one of the best years of his career last year (not my words Blache's words), what did Daniels do last year? What did Griffin do last year? For you all who are saying we need a CB more than we need a defensive lineman, I'd really like to hear you justify your arguments cause they sound like a bunch of BS to me.

I can remember back to the days of Champ Bailey and Darrell Green and our defense not being a dominant one. Do you all still think that we can build a dominant defense by having the best secondary in the league and the worse defensive line? It just makes no sense!

[RedskinDan0557]

For you all who are saying we need a CB more than we need a defensive lineman, I'd really like to hear you justify your arguments cause they sound like a bunch of BS to me.

I'm pretty sure I made a relatively cohesive argument. You are committing a logical fallacy - just because I think we need to bolster our secondary doesn't mean therefore that I think we shouldn't also bolster our DLine. Some of use think we should address both.

As such, I don't think the Skins should reach on a DE/DT in the 1st. I'd rather they take one of the top 5 CB's with an eye both towards adding much needed depth this year and molding a replacement for Springs in the FUTURE.

If one of the premier DE/DT falls to 21, by all means the Skins should draft him. I just don't think this is likely to happen.

[darrelgreenie]

2 words: Mike Rumph

Scary enough for ya?

I remember those dark days....Mike Rumph, Kenny Wright, #40 (Him whose name i will not mention) REFUND!!!

what a freakin nightmare

yeah i'd say depth at corner and safety is a concern

[#98QBKiller]

I definitely agree that games are won in the trenches. However, that doesn't mean the Skins should reach on a DT/DE in the 1st. So, who should the Skins take in the 1st?

The following players are all likely to be gone: Dorsey, Ellis, Long, Gholston, Merling and Harvey. So are you in the Campbell camp or the Balmer camp?

About the only 1st round caliber lineman likely to be left at 21 is OG Branden Albert. Although it would be a slight reach, I wouldn't be too displeased by this.

BTW, Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, and Jeff Otah are also likely to be gone by 21.

Who knows? :whoknows: we'll wait and see on draft day who falls to us and who doesn't.

I'm neither in the Campbell or Balmer camp. Harvey or Groves may still be left on the board by the 21st pick but again, who really knows.

We also need a WR before we need a CB so if Malcolm Kelly is still on the board I could see us taking him. James Hardy would be a good pick too, 6-7 and he ran a 4.4 in the combine, that's athleticism.

But again, it all depends on what happens on draft day. Personally I think we should take the BPA out of OL, DL and WR because we could use starters at those positions as opposed to depth at CB.

[gutlead74]

nope sure dont, we do however need a OG

[TheREALJBird]

Well we've seen how constantly spending 1st round picks on DB"s gets you. We keep neglecting our D-line, and it would be a bad move yet again if we did this year

[ALLWORLD]

I would say the need of another CB depends on how well we address the D-line. If we get a good pass rush then we can fare pretty well with decent corners. We could have Champ and Asante but with no pass rush Ray Charles will hit Stevie Wonder all day.

That is of course, how I am seeing this situation.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm pretty sure I made a relatively cohesive argument. You are committing a logical fallacy - just because I think we need to bolster our secondary doesn't mean therefore that I think we shouldn't also bolster our DLine. Some of use think we should address both.

As such, I don't think the Skins should reach on a DE/DT in the 1st. I'd rather they take one of the top 5 CB's with an eye both towards adding much needed depth this year and molding a replacement for Springs in the FUTURE.

If one of the premier DE/DT falls to 21, by all means the Skins should draft him. I just don't think this is likely to happen.

Your suggestion of a CB in the first means that you place it on the same level of need as defensive line. I just don't see that. In fact I'll go as far as to say I just think you're flat out wrong on that one. If there is no DL there and no WR there and no OL, then my first option would be to try to trade down for more picks. We don't need to have the #1 secondary in the league if our line is #25. It doesn't matter cause if a QB has time to find an open WR he will, even if its always a dumpoff to a RB or TE.

I haven't graded the talent in this year's draft, but Vinny has talked about how deep the draft is in D-linemen in the top 3 rounds. So I'm much more in favor of drafting D-linemen in those rounds than getting the luxury of a nickel cornerback who can replace Springs in the future.

And whats all this talk about Spring's departure? Who said this? I haven't heard Vinny say it. I haven't heard Snyder say it? I haven't heard Blache say it? So how are the Redskins fans (the ones who are saying that we need a CB) so sure that we're getting rid of Springs? Like I said (and Blache said it before me) Springs had one of the best years of his career last year, and people are acting as if his skills are diminishing. The guy is still easily our best CB and one of the best in the game and people are talking about him like he's trash. Green played at a pro-bowl level until he was in his 40's, who's to say that Springs won't do the same. I know I'm reaching with that one, but we can't just assume that he's gone because of his cap number.

[DallasSucks19922010]

i think we can get a decent nickel corner in the middle of the draft

[RedskinDan0557]

Your suggestion of a CB in the first means that you place it on the same level of need as defensive line. I just don't see that. In fact I'll go as far as to say I just think you're flat out wrong on that one. If there is no DL there and no WR there and no OL, then my first option would be to try to trade down for more picks. We don't need to have the #1 secondary in the league if our line is #25. It doesn't matter cause if a QB has time to find an open WR he will, even if its always a dumpoff to a RB or TE.

I haven't graded the talent in this year's draft, but Vinny has talked about how deep the draft is in D-linemen in the top 3 rounds. So I'm much more in favor of drafting D-linemen in those rounds than getting the luxury of a nickel cornerback who can replace Springs in the future.

And whats all this talk about Spring's departure? Who said this? I haven't heard Vinny say it. I haven't heard Snyder say it? I haven't heard Blache say it? So how are the Redskins fans (the ones who are saying that we need a CB) so sure that we're getting rid of Springs? Like I said (and Blache said it before me) Springs had one of the best years of his career last year, and people are acting as if his skills are diminishing. The guy is still easily our best CB and one of the best in the game and people are talking about him like he's trash. Green played at a pro-bowl level until he was in his 40's, who's to say that Springs won't do the same. I know I'm reaching with that one, but we can't just assume that he's gone because of his cap number.

You seem to lack a basic understanding of logic. I don't how much more clear I can be - I don't think the value for DLinemen will be there at 21. Of course, it's always possible a worthy DLineman could fall to 21.

Since the Giants are continually cited for their dominant DLine play - they also had to turn to their rookie CB Aaron Ross down the stretch and he was a key component of their success. With lingering injury concerns for our secondary, we might need to turn to a rookie CB this year as well.

I would like the Skins to address BOTH the secondary and DLine - but wisely without reaching too much (especially in the first.)

Although a trade down is appealing, it can't be counted on. As for a trade down, how are you proposing anything different than I am - taking a DLineman in the 2nd in order to get better value on the pick?

Once more, it typically takes multiple years for corners to adjust to the pros, hence the need to start thinking about Spring replacement now.

And no, I don't think Springs will be a pro-bowl CB for the Redskins when he's in his '40's.

[Peregrine]

I didnt exactly see Torrence as playing "alright". I dont remember him making any plays, and I remember time and time again his WR catching the ball.

Yes, Smoot and Springs play well, but you HAVE to have a #3 CB you can rely on. We need to get one. Springs may be good, but hes no spring chicken. If we draft a CB now, and he plays as the #3 CB(even when Rogers come back hes likely to see playing time, with the injuries our DBs have had over the years) for a couple years, then when Springs leaves, he can be ready to step in and start.

Personel decisions arent just about the here and now. Building a football team is about thinking about the future. We cant just be drafting players based on whos going to perform this year, its about whos going to perform 3-5 years down the road.

[Seabee1973]

I think if we upgrade our defensive line we can get by getting someone in the fourth round who can study a season or 2 before taking over as the starter

[Hamilbone13]

I realize Springs is getting up there in age, but he is still good. I know Carlos isn't coming back until maybe midseason, but he played well last year when he was in. Smoot played incredibly. Should we really use a first round pick on a corner?

Cromartie is good, but I don't think he is what we need the most. Torrence played alright, and we can always draft someone in the 3rd or later for depth.

We do need a big wide reciever, that will most likely come in the first round (if we dont pick one up in free agency or draft DL). Our OL is very good when healthy, I still think we can wait a year or two to draft OL. We do need some pressure on the QB, but I'm also not sure if someone will be there at 21 to pick thats worth it.

Torrence did not play alright. He flat out sucked!!

[Wyvern]

HECK YES, we need CB help!

Rogers was badly injured and 'may' come back to what he used to be -- maybe by late October. And Rogers may never get back to his earlier form and level performance (remember Prioleau?) Lastly, there were many people who weren't too happy with Carlos in his prime, either.

Now Smoot is adequate -- but he's not a dominant 'shut-down' corner. He maximizes what he has, but gets dinged up over the course of a season. He needs relief to be able to make it through the season.

As for Springs -- the age is starting to show. The injuries are more and more likely to happen, and it's taking longer to heal. Being frank, Springs is not going to be here much longer. And Sean needs relief to keep him playing all season long.

As for backups Torrence and Ewebanks, they just can't do the job. Now some folks are positive about Torrence, but everytime I watched Torrence -- he was terrible. Leigh (aka Ade Jimoh II) was getting owned by whatever receiver he was trying to cover.

We need a good CB -- either through FA or the draft.

[RBClintonPortis]

I'll add that it is much harder to cover up a lack of talent at CB than it is at many of our other need positions- Pass rush can be generated by blitzes; Offensive plays can be called to get playmakers the ball. A CB is on an Island and an injured Smoot or Springs (both of which based on history is overwhelmingly likely to happen at some point this season – and entirely predictable) and the uncertain nature of Rodgers injury - at what level he will return in October ... all lead to this being an important position to upgrade in the off-season.

I think our big need positions are (in no particular order) DE, WR, and CB* and we need to make best value decisions - I think the Skins take the highest graded player available at the need position when they pick in the first 3 rounds and don’t reach. Trade and FA signings need to take salary Cap and other opportunity costs into consideration but should incorporate the best value at these need positions. Like I said though, of these “need” positions the hardest one to cover up in real world game situations is a lack of Pro quality talent at CB.

* I think we need OL and LB depth as well but I wouldn’t call it an absolute “need”

[RypienUmApart]

I realize Springs is getting up there in age, but he is still good. I know Carlos isn't coming back until maybe midseason, but he played well last year when he was in. Smoot played incredibly. Should we really use a first round pick on a corner?

Cromartie is good, but I don't think he is what we need the most. Torrence played alright, and we can always draft someone in the 3rd or later for depth.

We do need a big wide reciever, that will most likely come in the first round (if we dont pick one up in free agency or draft DL). Our OL is very good when healthy, I still think we can wait a year or two to draft OL. We do need some pressure on the QB, but I'm also not sure if someone will be there at 21 to pick thats worth it.

Carlos is coming off a very serious injury...who knows if he'll even be the same when he comes back.

Springs is near his mid-30's and Smoots alright.

We don't need a 1st round CB this year. I'd say a 3rd rounder would be good for depth. I say DE in the 1st...tall WR in the 2nd or the other way around.

[CapitalDefense]

With our past few drafts and the use of #1 picks on the secondary with very little positive results. One would think this front office has learned to build your lines FIRST! The Giants secondary was mediocre at best, but they have one of the best, if not the best front four in the game today!

[CRobi21]

Torrence did not play alright. He flat out sucked!!

Under the circumstances, I think "alright" IS the right word to use there.

[SkinsManNJ]

I don't think we are really desperate for a corner, but then I'm not sure we are that desperate for any position. What we need is depth and some nice role players.

And in terms of what we do in the first round... I think its important that we just draft for value within our needs. Instead of reaching for a crappy DE just cause we think we need more pass rush, we would be much better off in the long run picking up a really good corner, or WR, or G for that matter. And then we can pick up those other positions later in the draft and work with what we've got.

I really hope we keep our pick, cause I think there will be at least one future superstar still available there within the positions that we need.

But the question is will we pick that future superstar in the later rounds?

[tex]

not much behind springs and smoot. skins should in someway add another standout corner to the roster.

[DaMuller7]

I realize Springs is getting up there in age, but he is still good. I know Carlos isn't coming back until maybe midseason, but he played well last year when he was in. Smoot played incredibly. Should we really use a first round pick on a corner?

Cromartie is good, but I don't think he is what we need the most. Torrence played alright, and we can always draft someone in the 3rd or later for depth.

We do need a big wide reciever, that will most likely come in the first round (if we dont pick one up in free agency or draft DL). Our OL is very good when healthy, I still think we can wait a year or two to draft OL. We do need some pressure on the QB, but I'm also not sure if someone will be there at 21 to pick thats worth it.

It's simple, any football smart person can see it, YES, we need yet another CB probably from the later part of the draft. Look at the injuries and age our CB's are getting to... You can never have enough CB help and depth, that's a given in today's NFL.

[kvarlo12000]

springs is gone after this year. So why not address his backup now.

[Skins5235]

yes we do, carlos rogers might not be ready. and our best corner is springs.