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WP:1 in 100 Americans in Prison

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
in The Tailgate

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carlsbadd

carlsbadd

Posted
Posted
The prison industry has grown unchecked just as any other government program has.

They take the program, and run it like a monopoly. Not until something happens do we then look to see what the hell is going on and demand change.

No one's watching the ball except for the people running the show. Of course it's going to get out of hand.

Sad.

I read some article a few years ago about how much of a cottage industry it has become and how the lobbists for the industry rally very hard against any kind of reform or alternative sentencing.

With the Federal mandates it takes the Judge out of the equation most of the time. It's a really sad state of affairs.

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paige3girl

paige3girl

Posted
Posted
When you say that you "agree", who are you agreeing with?

The drug war itself is the root cause of this mess. Investing more resources in the drug war will make the mess even larger. Prohibition never works.

investing in the drug war does not equate to prohibition. that was not what I was suggesting. It is a multi-faceted approach that includes yes prohibiting drugs from entering the country and being produced as well but it also includes proper education and rehabilitation.

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paige3girl

paige3girl

Posted
Posted
I agree that the WoD is silly and waste of time. Fatalities from alcohol related vehicular accidents alone is on par with fatalities from all other 'illicit' drugs combined, yet drugs are the real evil :rolleyes:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

death is not the only problem associated with the drug problem though, a lot of other criminal behavior is associated with it as well.

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carlsbadd

carlsbadd

Posted
Posted
investing in the drug war does not equate to prohibition. that was not what I was suggesting. It is a multi-faceted approach that includes yes prohibiting drugs from entering the country and being produced as well but it also includes proper education and rehabilitation.

Sorry, but you are not allowed to make sense in this forum :cool: I agree 100% with what you say.

As I mentioned the prison industry had grown into a powerful lobby and interest group. Many states now have privatised prisons.

I say this as a pro business person , not as a corporate world is evil type of guy.

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
Yea. But the masses on ES believe that legalizing an activity they partake in will make the world a better place.

Nice cheap shot. I do not take drugs. I do not even drink alcohol.

I believe that legalizing drugs will take away the profits for drug dealers and drastically reduce the related criminal activity that is created by those profits.

The same way that the end of alcohol prohibition undercut Al Capone and Co. back in the day.

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Dictator

Dictator

Posted
Posted
Nice cheap shot. I do not take drugs. I do not even drink alcohol.

I believe that legalizing drugs will take away the profits for drug dealers and drastically reduce the related criminal activity that is created by those profits.

The same way that the end of alcohol prohibition undercut Al Capone and Co. back in the day.

You know the truth of the statement I was making despite the fact you may be the exception. You know full well that a huge majority of the "legalize MJ" crowd of this site openly admit to doing it and say "it's not that bad"

And is having a free trade of drugs going to cut down on robbery? Probably not. Those who cannot afford a $5 crack rock now are still going to resort to dubious methods of fund raising if it were legal.

You'll probably see in increase in people driving impaired. Most of whom won't be able to be tested immediatly to determine the level.

So may people are in jail because THEY choose to break the law. The law didn't hunt them down and make them or trick them into violating it.

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helptheSKINS

helptheSKINS

Posted
Posted
Nice cheap shot. I do not take drugs. I do not even drink alcohol.

I believe that legalizing drugs will take away the profits for drug dealers and drastically reduce the related criminal activity that is created by those profits.

The same way that the end of alcohol prohibition undercut Al Capone and Co. back in the day.

People will still break laws to pay for the drugs. Can't argue with that. They are addicts. They will do whatever they have to to pay for them. It's illegal, don't do it or pay. It's not that hard.

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Raub

Raub

Posted
Posted
You know the truth of the statement I was making despite the fact you may be the exception. You know full well that a huge majority of the "legalize MJ" crowd of this site openly admit to doing it and say "it's not that bad"

And is having a free trade of drugs going to cut down on robbery? Probably not. Those who cannot afford a $5 crack rock now are still going to resort to dubious methods of fund raising if it were legal.

You'll probably see in increase in people driving impaired. Most of whom won't be able to be tested immediatly to determine the level.

So may people are in jail because THEY choose to break the law. The law didn't hunt them down and make them or trick them into violating it.

How many people commit robbery to buy alcohol? Increase in people driving impaired? Why? Just because something is legal doesn't automatically mean more people are going to use it and drive under the influence. Nice assumption though. Just because something is law doesn't make it prudent. That's why there are mechanisms to change laws.

Yea. But the masses on ES believe that legalizing an activity they partake in will make the world a better place.

I don't do drugs, but I see no reason to make most of them illegal. There are actually people who don't do drugs and can still see that the WoD is a waste of time, money and resources. You're not going to stop it....never. What you will do is fill up the prisons with people who aren't much of a threat to anyone but themselves.

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Dictator

Dictator

Posted
Posted

I don't do drugs, but I see no reason to make most of them illegal. There are actually people who don't do drugs and can still see that the WoD is a waste of time, money and resources. You're not going to stop it....never. What you will do is fill up the prisons with people who aren't much of a threat to anyone but themselves.

Just a threat to themselves huh?

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html

Percentage of State and Federal prison inmates who reported being under the influence of drugs at time of their offense, 1997

Type of offense Federal prison inmates State prison inmates

Total of all inmates 22.4% 32.6%

Violent offenses 24.5 29.0

Murder 29.4 26.8

Negligentmanslaughter * 17.4

Sexual assault 7.9 21.5

Robbery 27.8 39.9

Assault 13.8 24.2

Other 15.9 29.0

Property offenses 10.8 36.6

Burglary * 38.4

Larceny/theft * 38.4

Motor vehicle theft * 39.0

Fraud 6.5 30.5

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paige3girl

paige3girl

Posted
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I believe that legalizing drugs will take away the profits for drug dealers and drastically reduce the related criminal activity that is created by those profits.

well how about you go read the chapter in the book Freakanomics titled "why drug dealers live with their moms" you will quickly learn that the only person that is taking away profits is the guy at the top... for the other 99% of drug dealers they are making less than min wage hence why they live with their moms or in homes with extended families. the reason that they continue to do it is for the slight chance that one day they will be promoted to live the high life which pretty much rarely happens unless everyone above you in the chain is knocked off.

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Raub

Raub

Posted
Posted

Also, how about we post a little more from that study. ;)

The Drug/Crime Relationship Should Be Interpreted Cautiously

The drug/crime relationship is difficult to quantify because:

* Most crimes result from a variety of factors (personal, situational, cultural, economic); even when drugs are a cause, they are likely to be only one factor among many.

* What is meant by "drug-related" varies from study to study; some studies interpret the mere presence of drugs as having causal relevance whereas other studies interpret the relationship more narrowly.

* Reports by offenders about their drug use may exaggerate or minimize the relevance of drugs; drug-use measures, such as urinalysis that identifies only very recent drug use, are limited.

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Dictator

Dictator

Posted
Posted
If drugs were legal, I wonder what prices would do?

It was surprising to me when I went to Amsterdam to discover that it wasn't really any cheaper. Quality was a lot better though :laugh:

....

I think in some regards the prices would go up. Crack would probably be more expensive...as would acid and x.

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zoony

zoony

Posted
Posted
I think in some regards the prices would go up. Crack would probably be more expensive...as would acid and x.

why do you think that?

I wonder what would stop people from growing coca plants. It couldn't be too complicated, could it? I guess finding a seed would be the hardest part :)

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
well how about you go read the chapter in the book Freakanomics titled "why drug dealers live with their moms" you will quickly learn that the only person that is taking away profits is the guy at the top... for the other 99% of drug dealers they are making less than min wage hence why they live with their moms or in homes with extended families. the reason that they continue to do it is for the slight chance that one day they will be promoted to live the high life which pretty much rarely happens unless everyone above you in the chain is knocked off.

I read the entire book Freakonomics. Doen't change anything.

What you are saying was just as true in Al Capone's time. Gangsterism still went through the roof due to the fight for illegal profits, even though the average soldier wasn't getting those profits. The fact remains that the guys at the top are getting rich, and the financial incentive is there.

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Prosperity

Prosperity

Posted
Posted
Chris Core was talking about this earlier. He wanted to know why the percentages were these:

1 in 15 blacks (1 in 9 between the age of 20-34)

1 in 36 Hispanics

1 in a lot for whites.

Is it that blacks commit more crimes, get caught more, have an unfair trial, are arrested by bigots, etc... I don't know the answer.

combination of all of the above... blacks have been entrenched in the lower class for a while now (increases crime rate). They also can't afford as good of lawyers, and juries tend to be harsher on them.

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