Osama bin Laden: An Address to the American People (Long)

[Thiebear]

He so 1990's.

we should silence him if only to get the people around him also. Do some spring cave cleaning.

[speardog1]

Well, Osama wins again. Now instead of talking about things that matter, you're all arguing over the words of a mass murderer. He makes many interesting and valid points that are more than worthy of consideration. That doesn't change the fact that the only question that should be up for debate here is "why haven't we captured or killed this guy yet?" That's something worthy of arguing over.

[Destino]

Interesting how he has picked up the buzz words of the left and the anti war crowd. Huh? The whole thing has the feel of a carefully thought out propaganda statement. No way this is anything other than a statement prepared by someone else for him to read. The only thing missing is the Hanoi Jane voice to tell us all how we are doomed and should just give up.

Buzz words of the anti-war crowd? You mean like arguing against the seperatioin of church and state? Yeah definately sounds liberal to me.

Did you even read the thing? Osama is engaged in a PR war with the US and it's definately a war we need to win.

[Helter_Skelter]

After a few decades, I think we have a pretty good understanding of this particular enemy. This is a prepared statement to the American people. It will have nothing in it that will give us a better understanding of him, or us. It's propoganda, and should be disregarded as such.

Well that would depend on the individual that reads this and his or hers knowledge or level of understanding about the problem.

We as Americans recieve propaganda daily. It's important to look at the issue with objectivity, and not just with the simple attitude that the enemy is evil, and they hate our freedoms, etc. To those that have this attitude, if they would use this information to at least get inspired to try to learn the other side's point of view, it would broaden their knowledge of the issue. Thats a good thing. Propaganda or not.

[McMetal]

What about the Taliban's exploitation of poppy production to fund their warchest?

That is capitalism at its finest.

On another note, religious people are just plain crazy, IMO.

[Utah]

The fact that anyone in anyway would 'back' or even give credence to OBL after what he has been positively IDed as doing..........disgusting and wrong. I guess to some, even Hitler had some good ideas. To each his own.

While there are viewpoints to be heard and debated, his get no time as far as I am concerned.

I am with Bang on this.

[Henry]

Well that would depend on the individual that reads this and his or hers knowledge or level of understanding about the problem.

We as Americans recieve propaganda daily. It's important to look at the issue with objectivity, and not just with the simple attitude that the enemy is evil, and they hate our freedoms, etc. To those that have this attitude, if they would use this information to at least get inspired to try to learn the other side's point of view, it would broaden their knowledge of the issue. Thats a good thing. Propaganda or not.

Yes, people around the world receive propaganda daily. Smart people recognize it as such, and view it in that light. And I gotta tell you, I have no interest in hearing OBL propaganda. None. We can learn about the man without legitimizing his need to gloat.

[Chachie]

My balls, your chin, Osama. Mother****ing douche.

The only necessary reply. Shut it down. :applause:

[Helter_Skelter]

Yes, people around the world receive propaganda daily. Smart people recognize it as such, and view it in that light. And I gotta tell you, I have no interest in hearing OBL propaganda. None. We can learn about the man without legitimizing his need to gloat.

Fair enough. You make a good point there.

[speardog1]

Well that would depend on the individual that reads this and his or hers knowledge or level of understanding about the problem.

We as Americans recieve propaganda daily. It's important to look at the issue with objectivity, and not just with the simple attitude that the enemy is evil, and they hate our freedoms, etc. To those that have this attitude, if they would use this information to at least get inspired to try to learn the other side's point of view, it would broaden their knowledge of the issue. Thats a good thing. Propaganda or not.

I have to agree with H_S on this one. It's fine to hate, he's an awful person. But you can't be blinded by hate and refuse to read or try and understand what he's trying to say. That just makes you ignorant.

[GibbsFactor]

I'm stupid, I don't understand what OBL is trying to do here.

Can someone please explain it to me?

What is he trying to accomplish with this propaganda?

He's a dirty camel ****er.

[GibbsFactor]

The fact that anyone in anyway would 'back' or even give credence to OBL after what he has been positively IDed as doing..........disgusting and wrong. I guess to some, even Hitler had some good ideas. To each his own.

While there are viewpoints to be heard and debated, his get no time as far as I am concerned.

I am with Bang on this.

So then we will never win this war on terror.

With the attitude of our elder statesmen on this board, we will have to destroy all of them. :2cents:

Ignoring what this man says is bigotry at it's finest. He is recruiting people with this language. Is he desperate with this dialog? Perhaps, but what makes this sound so desperate? Because it's not just death to the infidels?

A long time has passed since 2001. A lot has changed. We've all had time to reflect.

If someone wants to blame the Iraq war on anyone, we need to be blaming it on him and his little guerrilla warfare group.

He attacks our heritage, our social and economic system, our integrity, our own political system and laughs at us for believing we have control over our own country.

Now, we either want to win this war or we don't. Which is it? Cause here it is, 6 years later and the **** is still putting out his "propaganda".

Should we take all those over 35 years of age advise on this matter? They are doing a bang up job!

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I read the first two lines and went, meh.... God this god that...I want to murder.

I agree with him somewhat about the media and corporations. I think most people do.

Whatever, we're all ****ed in the long run. It helps to remember that:)

[Destino]

I'm stupid, I don't understand what OBL is trying to do here.

Can someone please explain it to me?

What is he trying to accomplish with this propaganda?

He's a dirty camel ****er.

He's fighting a public relations war. He's pointing out what he believes are the weaknesses in American style democracy and the war effort. His argument isn't a weak one, nor is it his own. He's adopting arguments that have been made all over the world about the influence of corporations and their power which some argue is too great. These arguments are made all the time all over Europe, Canada, and Latin America.

He's also smartly defining victory. This is one of the things the US has done poorly in that we have declared overly ambitious goals and because of which our successful war effort looks less successful. He's basically saying that as long as there is unrest he's winning. Compare that to our lofty stated goals of fully functioning democracies in nations that have never functioned under these systems.

The US must take the PR campaign seriously. It is not enough to kill some people the war of ideas must be won as well if we are to deflate the movement our enemies are seeking to spread. Osama's weakness is the reality behind the idealism. The treatment of women for example flies in the face of his rants about a better life through Islam - in practice women are treated harshly and in Afghanistan where he had great influence women experience horrible lives. His radical version of Islam is soaked in innocent blood both of westerners and his own people. Instead of writing him off I think there should be a response. Have faith in our way of life and challenge his ideas head on.

[Destino]

I'm against posting this.

It's enemy propaganda. We have no obligation to listen to this man, read what he thinks or says. The fact he's still alive to say them is galling enough.

You're right but I think there is an issue of perspecitve at play here and I wonder if this was really written for Americans. Americans will right this off but nations uninvolved in this conflict will look at this without seeing either party as "the enemy". Osama is trying to make himself look like a righteous freedom fighter taking on a lying overly powerful enemy.

The best lies contain an element of truth. The world IS annoyed with the level of US involvement in their affairs. By playing this angle and pointing to Americans democracy/capitalism as the instrument by which the US gains power over other states he is trying to turn more people away from our way of doing things. I don't think he care if they imbrace his so long as the US loses support.

[Koolblue13]

There are two points of this I noticed, OBL is very desperate and you can tell. When in the past has he ever asked the US to stop ourselves, it was always we will kill you or make you pay etc...

OBL is also trying to get the US people to turn on themselves, which is what we can't do. We have to stand united and make sure the world is rid of these terrorists. Remember when he uses either a bomb or plane or whatever as a weapon he will kill all races, all political partys etc... so he will still kill all of us.

That's about what I got from this. In 98' he said "this is about the American Gov't, but if they don't stop their Gov't, they will be held responsable too". He followed threw and woke the people up, brought the war home and is now asking for what he had originally wanted.

Pehaps he had more faith in the American people in 98' and is now trying again 10 years later.

[Mad Mike]

I'm stupid, I don't understand what OBL is trying to do here.

Can someone please explain it to me?

What is he trying to accomplish with this propaganda?

He's a dirty camel ****er.

Elect Ron Paul. :laugh:

[GibbsFactor]

The US must take the PR campaign seriously. It is not enough to kill some people the war of ideas must be won as well if we are to deflate the movement our enemies are seeking to spread.

Now this is something we agree on and a point of view I view as rational.

[Henry]

Should we, as a nation, respond? Sure. Winning the war of ideas is important.

Doesn't mean I'm buying that damn book.

[outbaksean]

My advice is that we find osama, then rip his balls off and shove them down his throat.

see what he has to say then.

[Bang]

So then we will never win this war on terror.

With the attitude of our elder statesmen on this board, we will have to destroy all of them. :2cents:

Ignoring what this man says is bigotry at it's finest. He is recruiting people with this language. Is he desperate with this dialog? Perhaps, but what makes this sound so desperate? Because it's not just death to the infidels?

A long time has passed since 2001. A lot has changed. We've all had time to reflect.

If someone wants to blame the Iraq war on anyone, we need to be blaming it on him and his little guerrilla warfare group.

He attacks our heritage, our social and economic system, our integrity, our own political system and laughs at us for believing we have control over our own country.

Now, we either want to win this war or we don't. Which is it? Cause here it is, 6 years later and the **** is still putting out his "propaganda".

Should we take all those over 35 years of age advise on this matter? They are doing a bang up job!

So because we're offended simply by this man breathing, then all of us over 35 are failures when it comes to the pursuance of the war?

I'm not sure the point you're making. On one hand you say we're fools to ignore his words. You say he's recruiting. OK< so who is he recruiting here? Sounds to me like he's trying to influence the american people to rise up against their government. Why should we, the every day people, the people he's recruiting with this speech listen to that UNLESS we're open to his idea? The only sound response is to reject it wholesale. Not listen to it and nod in agreement here and there. Not listen to it to see what he's saying. we know what he's saying. he and his cronies say the same thing all the damn time.

On the other, you say we should want to win this war.

I'm not sure how one falls with the other. It doesn't matter what rhetoric he spouts. It doesn't matter what he says at all. Listening to this sort of propaganda gives him what he wants. And what he wants is a sympathetic ear. He wants to assist in dividing us, he appeals to the pacifists and people opposed to the war HE started. He agrees with them. He positively reinforces their belief in this message. he hopes to humanize himself and create sympathy for his cause among people he views as so disgusted with their own government that they are ripe for the fall. We are disgusted, by where does he get the idea we're so easily divided?

Probably through threads like this, where we the people are debating his words. There is no debate. Reject it. Tell him and everyone else who may be listening that the way to get us to listen is to not kill thousands of us in a day. But when he sees that we tear at each other, blame ourselves, call ourselves terrorists, call ourselves criminals, say we had it coming, etc... all it does is empower them. Granted, some things may be true. I'm certainly under no disillusion that everything we do is right as rain and by the book. But at the same time, right or wrong, if you come to our country and kill thousands of people like they did, the response should be nothing less than war. (we could debate all day how we could have gone about the process better, but that's not the issue here.)

As a uniform whole we should reject his words. We should reject his propaganda. we should not listen to what he has to say. This is the same organization who have repeatedly threatened and carried out attacks on nations who simply disagree with him and his 14th century ideals. He is a violent animal who's sole method of diplomacy is terror.

He should never be seen as anything but.

The Germans made appeal after appeal to the English people to give up the fight,, told them over and over that it was the fault of their leaders that the bombers were killing them. Told them if they'd simply get rid of Churchill the bombs would stop. They even went so far as to offer incentives of land to those who actively assisted them.

Thankfully no one believed it.

It's an old tactic, as old as war itself. Appeal to those at home, appeal to those afraid, appeal to those with a loved one off fighting. Tell them you won't hurt them, you simply want them to understand. Nicely blame their leaders for the fate they are suffering. Develop and nurture insurrection with a smile and a promise.

I fail to see any difference.

~Bang

[Helter_Skelter]

That's about what I got from this. In 98' he said "this is about the American Gov't, but if they don't stop their Gov't, they will be held responsable too". He followed threw and woke the people up, brought the war home and is now asking for what he had originally wanted.

Pehaps he had more faith in the American people in 98' and is now trying again 10 years later.

It's hard to tell....

Yet, you allowed Bush to continue his first term. What is stranger than this is that you elected him for a second term. This is an explicit mandate from you to him, with knowledge and consent, to continue to kill our people in Iraq and Afghanistan. After that, you claim that you are innocent. This innocence of yours is like my innocence of the blood of your sons on the 11th were I to claim such innocence. However, I would never match many of you in terms of arrogance and disregard for the life of humans outside America or match your leaders in terms of lying.

Then he does a complete 180-

Several years after the tragedies of the war, people have recently come to know that the vast majority of you want it stopped. This is why you elected the Democratic Party for this purpose. However, the Democrats have not done anything worth mentioning. In fact, they are still approving the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war there. This has disappointed the majority among you.

So which is it?

[Destino]

Should we, as a nation, respond? Sure. Winning the war of ideas is important.

Doesn't mean I'm buying that damn book.

I agree with this. I don't take my reading advice from blood thirsty lunatics.

[The_cavalierman]

And we care what OBL thinks because?

The only things we can control are what we do...and their is a lot we can do to successfully counter OBL's propaganda.

[GibbsFactor]

So because we're offended simply by this man breathing, then all of us over 35 are failures when it comes to the pursuance of the war?

Not at all, it just appears to me that those over 35 have consistently said we should pay no attention to this man. Unfortunately, we haven’t killed him yet and he is still relevant.

I'm not sure the point you're making. On one hand you say we're fools to ignore his words. You say he's recruiting. OK< so who is he recruiting here? Sounds to me like he's trying to influence the american people to rise up against their government. Why should we, the every day people, the people he's recruiting with this speech listen to that UNLESS we're open to his idea? The only sound response is to reject it wholesale. Not listen to it and nod in agreement here and there. Not listen to it to see what he's saying. we know what he's saying. he and his cronies say the same thing all the damn time.

I hope he isn’t recruiting anyone in this forum. He is recruiting around the world including in this very country. As I’ve said, he’s used very relevant arguments in this latest letter to us. He is obviously staying current, some how, to American business. This is how the world now views us. Because this man is our enemy and has used force against us we must understand why he has gone to such troubles. He considers our Government his enemy, not us the people, yet he attacks us, the people. He sees this as an eye for an eye. Why is this hard to comprehend?

On the other, you say we should want to win this war.

I'm not sure how one falls with the other. It doesn't matter what rhetoric he spouts. It doesn't matter what he says at all. Listening to this sort of propaganda gives him what he wants. And what he wants is a sympathetic ear. He wants to assist in dividing us, he appeals to the pacifists and people opposed to the war HE started. He agrees with them. He positively reinforces their belief in this message. he hopes to humanize himself and create sympathy for his cause among people he views as so disgusted with their own government that they are ripe for the fall. We are disgusted, by where does he get the idea we're so easily divided?

It’s a war of ideology at this point. In late 2001 to 2003 we had the support of the world. We’ve since lost that support by doing exactly what he has accused us of. We will never stop radicals when we continue to encourage them to be radical. Most of you seem to think this is a war against a nation. That we can fight this war as if we are fighting a cold war. That is where we are failing. This is a war against pirates, barbarians, terrorists. A nation less sect of radicals who are fighting on belief, religion and ideology. This war cannot be won with traditional warfare.

Probably through threads like this, where we the people are debating his words. There is no debate. Reject it. Tell him and everyone else who may be listening that the way to get us to listen is to not kill thousands of us in a day. But when he sees that we tear at each other, blame ourselves, call ourselves terrorists, call ourselves criminals, say we had it coming, etc... all it does is empower them. Granted, some things may be true. I'm certainly under no disillusion that everything we do is right as rain and by the book. But at the same time, right or wrong, if you come to our country and kill thousands of people like they did, the response should be nothing less than war. (we could debate all day how we could have gone about the process better, but that's not the issue here.)

Were we willing to change anything had 9/11 not happened? He wanted it to be a wake up call. Change our ways or fight them like the Soviets did. He wants the America he thinks to go away. We think we are the America he wants us to be. Somewhere, there is disconnect and a misunderstanding. OBL may be one man, but he is a symbol for a very large Anti-America movement. Is he a hypocrite? Sure, in our eyes he is. Is he justified by his actions? Of course not. Should he be sent to the gallows? Yes. Is he evil? Absolutely. Is he insane, far from it.

As a uniform whole we should reject his words. We should reject his propaganda. we should not listen to what he has to say. This is the same organization who have repeatedly threatened and carried out attacks on nations who simply disagree with him and his 14th century ideals. He is a violent animal who's sole method of diplomacy is terror.

He should never be seen as anything but.

~Bang

And this leads my back to the over 35 statement.