Obama Republicans aren't conservatives

[88Comrade2000]

I just wrote a post speaking about reasons to vote for a candidate despite policy disagreements. You didn't refute any of those points. You basically repeated the initial post. Care to address the actual post?

Your logic dictates that individuals must support candidates who support their views. In fact, anecdotally, there are quite a number of Republican Obama supporters who support him despite his stances in a variety of political areas. They support him for what he represents, they support him for generation gapping the political establishment, they support him for his seemingly honest and open approach to those with whom he disagress on policy, and they support him because they want to send a message to their own party.

I would say those supporters who would support him; despite him having positions contrary to their personal views don't really have a firmly held belief in those views. If you believe in something so strongly; you don't vote for someone who will go against what you believe. If you are willing to vote someone because it just feels right. You feel this person will be different; then you are chucking your beliefs aside or don't have that ingrained belief. The true die hard conservatives have their beliefs and aren't willing to compromise. That's why John Mccain will not get their support. Neither will Obama. Those people will either sit this election out or vote down the ticket and leave the presidential selection blank. That's how they will send the message to their party. I'm talking about the the real true base of the republican party; the ones that actually still like Bush.

I know the big reason Obama is so popular, is because people do believe he will be different. This is majority of voters. Those republicans who are swayed by what Obama is preaching are liberal or moderate republicans. They aren't so all or nothing with their beliefs. They aren't pro-life and no abortions. They are for keeping abortion legal and reducing abortions.

Conservatives are a minority just like liberals. Thing is both sides control their parties when the vast majority of the country is more towards the middle. Obama is getting this mass support which will take him to victory because they feel he will be different. He will change things. At least they HOPE he will will. The majority middle aren't that rigid in positions. It's not all or nothing for them. They can compromise.

My point is the real die hard, conservatives who are resolute with their beliefs and nothing will be compromised for them; will not vote for Obama and they won't vote for Mccain. They have noone to vote for in this election. They will punish the republican party by not voting for Mccain and letting Obama win the election by not voting for president.

I know Obama and everyone that supports him thinks he will be able to cross party lines and deal with republicans. No he won't. After the slaughter the republicans will face this fall in the congressional elections; the only republicans left will be those die hard non compromising republicans. Guarantee you any liberal or moderate republican left will be convinced to switch the democratic party. Those remaining conservative republican will do nothing for Obama. Just look at what the republicans did in 1993. They didn't help Clinton with his liberal agenda. The only time help Clinton out was when Clinton passed a conservative item: NAFTA. If they democrats don't have a filibuster proof majority in the senate; then the Republicans will try to block everything the Democrats and Obama will want passed. I personally think they will get that Filibuster proof majority.

[Thiebear]

They support him for what he represents, they support him for generation gapping the political establishment, they support him for his seemingly honest and open approach to those with whom he disagress on policy, and they support him because they want to send a message to their own party.

Isnt he holding up one of the fisa board members using that horrible senate ability that 1 senator can hold up a vote? The more you look into his record the more you see he's not that much of a change.

[flashback]

How anyone who calls themselves fiscally conservative can vote for a Republican is beyond me.

[Thiebear]

You could have started the thread:

McCain supporters aren't conservative and it would have been just as correct.

[nonniey]

Let me quote from Obama's website:

"Obama will slash earmarks", "Obama will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense"

Two headings on his fiscal page: "Cut Pork Barrel Spending" and "End Wasteful Government Spending."

Again I ask what candidate other than McCain is proposing the elimination of all earmarks? (BTW thanks for posting the evidence that Obama doesn't support the elimination of all earmarks). Every candidate proposes slashing earmarks which usually take the form of slashing those submitted by the opposition parties politicians. For an example see pre 2006 versus post 2006 earmark allocations from congress (Pelosi and company certianly did slash Repub earmarks, which would have been a good start but unfortunately even more dem earmarks were submitted).

[Thiebear]

Again I ask what candidate other than McCain is proposing the elimination of all earmarks? (BTW thanks for posting the evidence that Obama doesn't support the elimination of all earmarks). Every candidate proposes slashing earmarks which usually take the form of slashing those submitted by the opposition parties politicians. For an example see pre 2006 versus post 2006 earmark allocations from congress (Pelosi and company certianly did slash Repub earmarks, which would have been a good start but unfortunately even more dem earmarks were submitted).

Murtha became the biggest ear-mark spender by far it was reported.

edit: i stand corrected 2008 so far?

Top Ten Senate Earmarkers*

Member Name

Earmark Total**

Sen. Thad Cochran, R-Miss.

$773,598,178

Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska

$501,882,500

Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va.

$429,516,946

Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii

$404,193,701

Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill.

$383,167,294

Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev.

$335,717,010

Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa

$288,674,244

Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash.

$247,162,574

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa.

$215,912,850

Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.

$177,793,375

With Byrd now passing the 3 billion mark.

[nonniey]

......... Those people will either sit this election out or vote down the ticket and leave the presidential selection blank. That's how they will send the message to their party. I'm talking about the the real true base of the republican party; the ones that actually still like Bush.....

.

Why would they still like Bush??? McCain is far more conservative that Bush yet they like Bush over McCain?

[Teller]

I swear. Where does it stop.

Some of us republicans say, "I wouldn't vote for him, because I disagree with too many of his policies, but I like his upbeat and hopeful style, and he seems like a good guy."

Rather than being seen as some sort of an open-minded acknowledgement of the opponents' strengths and/or some kind of compliment, it's seen as an abandonment of what matters to us.

I wonder why we don't reach across the aisle more often?

[nonniey]

How anyone who calls themselves fiscally conservative can vote for a Republican is beyond me.

Depends on the Republican. McCain for one is easily the most fiscally conservative member of congress so yes I intend to vote for him.

[jbooma]

Love it how Obama mentions he has republican support. He probably does have support among the liberal republicans- the few that are still out there and the moderate republicans.

I don't think they are conservatives though. An economic conservative would not support Obama just based on his policies alone and that's not taking into account what the democratic congress wants to do. Social conservatives wouldn't be for him either. Some with security conservatives.

Obama could very well win in a landslide; leaving the republicans with only the fractured core left.

Or republicans that feel we need to unite both partys and he might be the only candidate that can do that.

[jbooma]

I swear. Where does it stop.

Some of us republicans say, "I wouldn't vote for him, because I disagree with too many of his policies, but I like his upbeat and hopeful style, and he seems like a good guy."

Rather than being seen as some sort of an open-minded acknowledgement of the opponents' strengths and/or some kind of compliment, it's seen as an abandonment of what matters to us.

I wonder why we don't reach across the aisle more often?

Bingo!!!!!!

I am tired of voting for party I am going to vote for who I feel will do the best job. So what if he does raise taxes, we have been there before. I just want someone that can go to DC and get the job done, instead of sit there and say will i tried but they woudn't pass my bill.

[Riggo-toni]

funny, but we can really say the same about almost all "popular" Republicans these days.

Yeah, W ain't no friggin' conservative. :puke:

[Mister Happy]

How. You honestly think Obama is going to overrule what the democrats will pass?

Nope. It's another empty promise. Just like McCain's. And GW Bush before him.

[Predicto]

I could live with a liberal democrat like Obama winning if we could replace a liberal supreme court justice or two before he comes into office with conservative ones

That's going to be hard to do, since there is only one liberal on there right now (Stevens).

Three are moderates. (Ginsburg, Souter, Breyer)

Two are traditional conservatives (Kennedy, Roberts)

Three are ultra-conservatives (Scalia, Thomas, Alito)

[Mister Happy]

Again I ask what candidate other than McCain is proposing the elimination of all earmarks? (BTW thanks for posting the evidence that Obama doesn't support the elimination of all earmarks).

One has to wonder why this proposition never made it to his website.

Really, though, what difference does the elimination of earmarks make when you are spending hundreds of billions per year on healthcare and Iraq?

[88Comrade2000]

Why would they still like Bush??? McCain is far more conservative that Bush yet they like Bush over McCain?

Yes! Who do think still is giving Bush that 30% support? Even though Bush is just as guilty going against conservative principles; they hate Mccain.

[88Comrade2000]

You could have started the thread:

McCain supporters aren't conservative and it would have been just as correct.

True! The conservatives have themselves to blame for them not have a true conservative option available in 2008. They were so hungry for power after Clinton's 8 years; they ignored some of the more real conservative candidates in 2000 and voted for the fake conservative George Bush.

When The republicans had complete control of power: Both houses of congress and the presidency from Jan 2003 to Dec. 2006; they acted like big government.democrats. It was under them, that the government expanded. Spending increase. They more interested in expanding their power, they acted like democrats to keep it. That Medicare drug benefit never would've passed. Tom Delay stretched the rules to extend voting and stronged arm people into voting for it. Tom Delay uses the homeland security- which was supposed to be their to defend the homeland; to go after some democrats legislators in TX who left the state to prevent that redistricting. The conventional wisdom is that the democratic party was the one to die. I think in reality it will be the republican party that will die first.

[The_cavalierman]

Instead of trying to label everyone how about looking at the facts?

1. Anti-same sex politicss caused many republicans to leave the party

2. Out of control spending and making government bigger

3. GOP scandals and corruption

4. Too many mistakes in the war on terror and the occupation of Iraq

5. Foreclosures at an all time high

6. The GOP's POTUS candidate is not popular in his own party

Gee I wonder why some of the more moderate republicans are staggering away from the flaming elephant remains that was the GOP?

Instead of trying to measure if they were real republicans...I think it would be in your political interests to get them back by cleaning up the mess.:2cents:

[alexey]

I would say those supporters who would support him; despite him having positions contrary to their personal views don't really have a firmly held belief in those views. If you believe in something so strongly; you don't vote for someone who will go against what you believe.

Yes there are some principles you should not compromise, but this kind of all-or-nothing thinking gets us nowhere. This is the difference between extremism and moderation.

The "No Compromise" position is not a die-hard conservative position, it is die-hard stubborn, unrealistic position. It is useless and not productive.