9/11 Coincidences

[Mad Mike]

You know how Mad Mike debates? "Argument by ommission." If there are any uncomfortable details, he ignores them or he'll throw out statements and never return back to them.

Debating with Mike is like debating with a block quote machine. Sure, he may occasionally respond to one or two comments, but generally, he does not like to debate the finer details. Except for, you know, chugging out blocks of quotes. (As advice, Mike, use bullets: nobody wants to wade though all that to find your specific point.)

For example, if I point out that the US may very well be supporting Jundullah, an Al-Qaeda linked but anti-Iranian group, he has nothing to say. "Ooops. Uncomfortable detail. Must ignore! Must get back to 'Saddam was behind 9-11' focus! It was all Saddam! WMDs!"

You know how you debate? LIE

I don't say Saddam was behind 9/11. Not once have I said that. I have repeated a thousand times. He may have helped.

Debate by omission? Like the way you omit the page after page of evidence I post showing ties to terrorism, Saddams use of terrorism against the US and his KNOWN ties to al Qaeda?

But you post some BS about how the us is supporting an al Qaeda linked group without a single shred of evidence and I'm supposed to do flips? So other than distraction, what is it supposed to prove?

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Also for Bin Laden to me so bad, I see the US goverment taught him all about this terrorst crap, when Russia was in Afganistan Bin Laden was our best friend! But then he was expendable and this goverment is famous for throwing people under the bus! If our Military Advisors would have never taught Bin Laden the things he is doing now, then this would be a moot point now wouldn't it. Just like Saddam had all those weapons of Mass Destruction. Can any one please tell me WHERE ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH ARE THESE WEAPONS??

Wanna know here in SAC bases that's where they are! We made them, we built them and Dammit no one will tell America anything. That is why this country's reputation goes hand in hand with Bush's approval rating. If this goverment was anything like the forefathers intended Bush would be in jail right now for all the lies and killing he has done. Thank GOD for only 2 terms!!!!

[Mad Mike]

Dude doesn't this show you just how ridiculous the American people are as a whole and simply how vicious this goverment is. Anyone with 1/2 a brain will know the truth I will state just a few for the lost people here on ES.

1) Look at the footage of the towers collapsing. Watch it in slow motion and tell me there aren't explosions on every floor going down JUST LIKE HOW THEY DEMOLISH a building.

2) I will come back with the name but one of the supposed hyjackers that supposedly died in the plane crash is living quite well in the middle east and he is a Professor there at a major university.

3) The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon, the "engine: they supposedly found at the site, didn't and doesn't match the plane they SWEAR hit the Pentagon.

4) United 93 was shot down by F-16's

I know I will be blasted, cursed and all that but America as a whole is gullable and the goverment has been lying or should I say Bush, Chaney and Rice have bent us all over with no grease.

Investigate for yourself and see for yourself. Not just what the goverment wants you to know. All this military might we have and we can't even find an old 1/2 dead turban wearing man that goes from cave to cave in a donkey! Yeah okay you all believe that if you want. In 1965 my father flew the SR-71 from 80,000 feet it took a picture of a golf ball and could tell you who made it. That was 42 years ago! Think how much advancement has been made and we can't find Bin Laden......

Man this country and the fools that believe the goverment without question simply amazes me.......

Tfat would be funny if it were not so ******* stupid. :doh:

[LoveDaSkins172645]

Tfat would be funny if it were not so ******* stupid. :doh:

See its genious's like this guy that allows Bush and this goverment to continue to run a muck!

I know what I am talking about and as stupid as you say my comments are, I bet you 9/10/2001 someone tell you that terrorists would hijack various planes with box cutters and hit the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon you two would have said the same thing right?

Tfat would be funny if it were not so ******* stupid. :doh:

[techboy]

See its genious's like this guy that allows Bush and this goverment to continue to run a muck!

This statement is ironic, but probably not in the manner in which you intended.

[chomerics]

You know how you debate? LIE

I don't say Saddam was behind 9/11. Not once have I said that. I have repeated a thousand times. He may have helped.

And you are REPEATEDLY WRONG!!! You never answer any questions, you complain about people using biased sources, yet that is ALL you use.

You are by far and away the MOST intellectually dishonest debater I have ever seen. It is akin to a second grader using the I am rubber you are glue argument. When someone brings up something you don't like, you completely IGNORE the issue and spout more gibberish nonsense.

Debate by omission? Like the way you omit the page after page of evidence I post showing ties to terrorism, Saddams use of terrorism against the US and his KNOWN ties to al Qaeda?

My god, you are like the energizer bunny, you keep going and going and going. . .no matter HOW many times you are proven wrong, no matter HOW many people tell you no matter WHAT you are faced up against, you spout the same page after page of utter horse crap from the same right wing noise machine websites.

Face it Mike, you are wrong. Admit it, just for once in your life admit that you were wrong. For once, EVERYONE HERE is right, and you are the loan fruitcake pimping out non existent evidence, and utter BS.

Here is a picture of what I believe you to look like in real life. . .

Here is something you can take solace in. You did prove me wrong. . .Yep, you proved to each and every one of us that there are lunatics and fruitcakes who will never be able to comprehend reality no matter how hard it strikes them upside the face.

But you post some BS about how the us is supporting an al Qaeda linked group without a single shred of evidence and I'm supposed to do flips? So other than distraction, what is it supposed to prove?

It is a statement from YOUR GODDAMN LINKS that proves you wrong :doh:

[Dan T.]

Dude doesn't this show you just how ridiculous the American people are as a whole and simply how vicious this goverment is. Anyone with 1/2 a brain will know the truth I will state just a few for the lost people here on ES.

1) Look at the footage of the towers collapsing. Watch it in slow motion and tell me there aren't explosions on every floor going down JUST LIKE HOW THEY DEMOLISH a building.

2) I will come back with the name but one of the supposed hyjackers that supposedly died in the plane crash is living quite well in the middle east and he is a Professor there at a major university.

3) The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon, the "engine: they supposedly found at the site, didn't and doesn't match the plane they SWEAR hit the Pentagon.

4) United 93 was shot down by F-16's

I know I will be blasted, cursed and all that but America as a whole is gullable and the goverment has been lying or should I say Bush, Chaney and Rice have bent us all over with no grease.

Investigate for yourself and see for yourself. Not just what the goverment wants you to know. All this military might we have and we can't even find an old 1/2 dead turban wearing man that goes from cave to cave in a donkey! Yeah okay you all believe that if you want. In 1965 my father flew the SR-71 from 80,000 feet it took a picture of a golf ball and could tell you who made it. That was 42 years ago! Think how much advancement has been made and we can't find Bin Laden......

Man this country and the fools that believe the goverment without question simply amazes me.......

Wow, I did not know this stuff. You've opened my eyes LoveDaSkins172645. Keep posting so I can get some more information about 9/11.

[chomerics]

Tfat would be funny if it were not so ******* stupid. :doh:

My god, you have the unmitigated gall to call someone ELSE stupid??? :laugh: You don't seem to realize you mock his stupidity then espouse your own ludicrous stupidity in the same thread :rotflmao:

Man, you are the epitome of an ignorant zealot, thanks again for showing the entire board how NOT to behave and debate.

I remember one time I compared you to the Black Night in the Holy Grail. . .it was because in that thread, as in this one, you absolutely REFUSED to acknowledge Saddam Hussen was not training Al Qaeda, you still refuse to believe it. . .in fact you are probably the LAST person on the face of the earth to believe it. You are part of that 1% who still thinks Saddam was behind 9-11.

Here this is to you Mike. . .

Mad Mike: Aaaagh! Aaagh!

Chomerics: I am Chomerics, patron of the Tailgate. I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the land to join me in my pursuit of truth and justice. You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?

Mad Mike: Saddam was Behind 9-11.

Chomerics: What?!?

Mad Mike: Saddam was Behind 9-11

Chomerics: I have no quarrel with you, Mad Mike, but you can not be that stupid, everyone knows that is a farce.

Mad Mike: Then you shall die.

Chomerics: I command you, as patron of the Tailgate, to stand aside!

Mad Mike: I move for no man.

Chomerics: So be it!

Chomerics and Mad Mike: Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc.

[Chomerics chops the Mad Mikes's left arm off]

Chomerics: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.

Mad Mike: 'Tis but a scratch.

Chomerics: A scratch? Your bloody arm's cut off!

Mad Mike: No, it isn't.

Chomerics: Well, what's that, then?

Mad Mike: I've had worse.

Chomerics: You liar!

Mad Mike: Come on, you pansy! Huyah! Hiyaah! Aaaaaaaah!

[Chomerics chops the Mad Mike's right arm off]

Chomerics: Victory is mine!

[kneeling]

We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--

Mad Mike: Hah! Come on, then.

Chomerics: What?!????

Mad Mike: Have at you!

Chomerics: Eh. You are indeed brave, Mad Mike, but the fight is mine. The truth is on my side!

Mad Mike: Oh, had enough, eh?

Chomerics: Look, you stupid ****. You've got no arms left.

Mad Mike: Yes, I have.

Chomerics: Look!

Mad Mike: Just a flesh wound. [kick]

Chomerics: Look, stop that.

Mad Mike: Chicken! [kick] Chickennn!

Chomerics: Look, I'll have your leg.

Mad Mike: [kick]

Chomerics: Right! [whop]

[Chomerics chops Mad Mike's right leg off]

Mad Mike: Right. I'll do you for that!

Chomerics: You'll what?

Mad Mike: Come here!

Chomerics: What are you going to do, bleed on me?

Mad Mike: I'm invincible!

Chomerics: You're a looney.

Mad Mike: MKad Mike always triumphs! Have at you! Come on, then.

Chomerics: [whop]

[Chomerics chops the Mad Mike's last leg off]

Chomerics: Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.

Chomerics: Come, Patsy.

Mad Mike: Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow ****s! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!

Yes Mike, you have been regulated to Black Night Status. . .if only the mods had a Black Night image, it would fit you PERFECTLY!!!!

[chomerics]

And to answer your question. I DONT KNOW and NEITHER DO YOU. However the FACT that they had connections, and the FACT that Iraq ran training camps for foreign terrorists which included a commercial aircraft used to train hijackers is pretty damn suggestive.

I do know Mike, I know the answers. . .because Bush told me so.

You see, in politics, the only time you know they are telling the truth is when it is something that discredits them or makes them look bad. When Elliot Spitzer tells everyone that he had an affair, I know it is true because it hurts him politically. When Larry Craig admits he was in the bathroom with a "wide stance" and pleads guilty to solicitation, I believe him because it hurts his credibility. When Gary Studs admits to having an affair with a page, I believe him.

Similarly when Bush admits there is NO EVIDENCE that Saddam was in any was assoicated with 9-11 and was not working with Al Qaeda, I believe him.

The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html

"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the 11 September attacks," Mr Bush told reporters

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm

Yet to you, this means that Al Qaeda was trained by Hussen to hijack planes :doh:

I do not believe all of the right wing nutjobs who act as a mouthpiece for the right wing noise machine. I do not believe people who's stories have changed over the years, I use deductive reasoning to discern the truth, and to sift through the veil draped over reality. In other words, I am skeptical until they prove me otherwise.

You, OTOH, believe anything which promotes your viewpoint, no matter the source, or reliability of the information. Even in your conversations with various people, they tell you the opposite of what you want to hear, you are too pig headed to understand this. . .when he says something like this. . .

I think however, that Pakistan would have been funding and training them anyway and bin Laden had his own money to buy weapons, and that's what gave him clout in the first place. Nothing we did helped him along in any substantial way and he would have followed the same course that led to 9/11 no matter what we did.

and let me paraphrase, he is stating that Pakistan would have been giving hims arms and weapons without our support anyway, so the money we were giving them had no direct consequence in the way things panned out.

In essence he is saying that he does not KNOW for a fact that we didn't give him money by proxy, but he suspects even if we did, that we would be in the same position. He stated they got funding from Saudi Arabia and the ISI, we funded the ISI with matching funds from Saudi Arabia. Only a fool would suggest that money never crossed hands, and nothing you have listed has stated that they didn't receive US arms. What they did state is that we did not fund him directly, which nobody was EVER at a single point ARGUING!!!! :doh:

[EersSkins05]

Man, you would think tailgate posts still counted by reading this thread.

By the way, this is one of my favorite posts ever, and not for the reason the OP would probably think:

Dude doesn't this show you just how ridiculous the American people are as a whole and simply how vicious this goverment is. Anyone with 1/2 a brain will know the truth I will state just a few for the lost people here on ES.

1) Look at the footage of the towers collapsing. Watch it in slow motion and tell me there aren't explosions on every floor going down JUST LIKE HOW THEY DEMOLISH a building.

2) I will come back with the name but one of the supposed hyjackers that supposedly died in the plane crash is living quite well in the middle east and he is a Professor there at a major university.

3) The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon, the "engine: they supposedly found at the site, didn't and doesn't match the plane they SWEAR hit the Pentagon.

4) United 93 was shot down by F-16's

I know I will be blasted, cursed and all that but America as a whole is gullable and the goverment has been lying or should I say Bush, Chaney and Rice have bent us all over with no grease.

Investigate for yourself and see for yourself. Not just what the goverment wants you to know. All this military might we have and we can't even find an old 1/2 dead turban wearing man that goes from cave to cave in a donkey! Yeah okay you all believe that if you want. In 1965 my father flew the SR-71 from 80,000 feet it took a picture of a golf ball and could tell you who made it. That was 42 years ago! Think how much advancement has been made and we can't find Bin Laden......

Man this country and the fools that believe the goverment without question simply amazes me.......

[Baculus]

You know how you debate? LIE

I don't say Saddam was behind 9/11. Not once have I said that. I have repeated a thousand times. He may have helped.

Debate by omission? Like the way you omit the page after page of evidence I post showing ties to terrorism, Saddams use of terrorism against the US and his KNOWN ties to al Qaeda?

But you post some BS about how the us is supporting an al Qaeda linked group without a single shred of evidence and I'm supposed to do flips? So other than distraction, what is it supposed to prove?

Oh no - he pulled THE LIE CARD.

For some reason I pictured you angrily mashing the keyboard as you punched in "LIE." Why is that? OH yeah, because you come off as a troll.

And this is your typical tactic - ad hominem attacks, which you throw out with zero proof, and then you walk away, never to even demonstrate the validity of your point. Case in point, when you claimed I said "the CIA trained Bin Laden," which I never uttered. I asked you to show where I said that, and you didn't even make an attempt to show where I said that.

In short, you lied. Good going, hypocrite.

I never like to use the word lie and use other verbage, because "lie" is a might strong word, but here is one example, just from two pages back, where you completely lied about what I said in an attempt to portray in a certain light.

Instead of actually showing me that, "Hey Baculus, I believe you are incorrect and here is why," you come back with the trollish response that I expected.

And here is proof that you don't even read what I say: I never DENIED Saddam's link with terrorism. Not once. Even in this response you are full of rubbish and still attempting to distort what I am stating. What I have debated, and using information from the US government, is the ties betweeen Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda. In the past, I have stated that the US has had ties with Al-Qaeda (and the Taliban), which was mostly during the 90's.

Also, I had mentioned in the past that there is evidence that Bin Laden toured the US under the alias of "Tim Osman." Now, the article you mentioned that Bin Laden had enough money where he didn't have to be supported by the US, and I find that to be believable.

I have no idea what you are unable to keep track of the focus of the debate. Oh, I know why - you are so DETERMINED to prove me wrong that you don't even listen to what I state. In short, you have tunnel vision, which I have mentioned in the past.

And I have posted several articles that discussed the Jundallah group, but typical in your manner, you didn't read it or magically have zero memory of it.

Here is a clue: There is a wonderful technology called a "search engine." Use it, love it, understand it.

, , .

[georgiaredskin]

Here this is to you Mike. . .

Mad Mike: Aaaagh! Aaagh!

Chomerics: I am Chomerics, patron of the Tailgate. I seek the finest and the bravest knights in the land to join me in my pursuit of truth and justice. You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?

Mad Mike: Saddam was Behind 9-11.

Chomerics: What?!?

Mad Mike: Saddam was Behind 9-11

Chomerics: I have no quarrel with you, Mad Mike, but you can not be that stupid, everyone knows that is a farce.

Mad Mike: Then you shall die.

Chomerics: I command you, as patron of the Tailgate, to stand aside!

Mad Mike: I move for no man.

Chomerics: So be it!

Chomerics and Mad Mike: Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc.

[Chomerics chops the Mad Mikes's left arm off]

Chomerics: Victory is mine!

[kneeling]

We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--

Chomerics: Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.

Chomerics: Come, Patsy.

Mad Mike: Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow ****s! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!

Yes Mike, you have been regulated to Black Night Status. . .if only the mods had a Black Night image, it would fit you PERFECTLY!!!!

Man, you would think tailgate posts still counted by reading this thread.

By the way, this is one of my favorite posts ever

And this brilliant ES re-enactment of Monty Python, is mine. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :notworthy

[Baculus]

My god, you have the unmitigated gall to call someone ELSE stupid??? :laugh: You don't seem to realize you mock his stupidity then espouse your own ludicrous stupidity in the same thread :rotflmao:

Man, you are the epitome of an ignorant zealot, thanks again for showing the entire board how NOT to behave and debate.

I remember one time I compared you to the Black Night in the Holy Grail. . .it was because in that thread, as in this one, you absolutely REFUSED to acknowledge Saddam Hussen was not training Al Qaeda, you still refuse to believe it. . .in fact you are probably the LAST person on the face of the earth to believe it. You are part of that 1% who still thinks Saddam was behind 9-11.

Here this is to you Mike. . .

--snip--

ROFL.

The Black Troll guards the bridge!

[mjah]

Dude doesn't this show you just how ridiculous the American people are as a whole and simply how vicious this goverment is. Anyone with 1/2 a brain will know the truth I will state just a few for the lost people here on ES.

1) Look at the footage of the towers collapsing. Watch it in slow motion and tell me there aren't explosions on every floor going down JUST LIKE HOW THEY DEMOLISH a building.

2) I will come back with the name but one of the supposed hyjackers that supposedly died in the plane crash is living quite well in the middle east and he is a Professor there at a major university.

3) The plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon, the "engine: they supposedly found at the site, didn't and doesn't match the plane they SWEAR hit the Pentagon.

4) United 93 was shot down by F-16's

I know I will be blasted, cursed and all that but America as a whole is gullable and the goverment has been lying or should I say Bush, Chaney and Rice have bent us all over with no grease.

Investigate for yourself and see for yourself. Not just what the goverment wants you to know. All this military might we have and we can't even find an old 1/2 dead turban wearing man that goes from cave to cave in a donkey! Yeah okay you all believe that if you want. In 1965 my father flew the SR-71 from 80,000 feet it took a picture of a golf ball and could tell you who made it. That was 42 years ago! Think how much advancement has been made and we can't find Bin Laden......

Man this country and the fools that believe the goverment without question simply amazes me.......

Have you given any thought to joining N.O.T.R.E.A.L.I.T.Y.? See my sig for info.

We sure could use more thinkers like you!

Chom, that Black Knight post was epic. :laugh:

[Mad Mike]

Chom, what are you, like... 10? That was the most childish thing I have ever read on this board. Way to debate the issues. :applause:

[techboy]

Chomerics: Victory is mine!

[kneeling]

We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--

It was a nice effort, chomerics, but I just can't suspend disbelief for this part...

[Corcaigh]

In 1965 my father flew the SR-71 from 80,000 feet it took a picture of a golf ball and could tell you who made it.

No he couldn't.

[Mad Mike]

And this is your typical tactic - ad hominem attacks, which you throw out with zero proof, and then you walk away, never to even demonstrate the validity of your point. Case in point, when you claimed I said "the CIA trained Bin Laden," which I never uttered. I asked you to show where I said that, and you didn't even make an attempt to show where I said that.

In short, you lied. Good going, hypocrite.

Chomerics DID say it and I was talking to him. He started this line of "reason" here.. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235784&page=39&pp=15

Originally Posted by chomerics

No it does not. . .what is DOES mean is non-involvement with Al Qaeda.

Heck, every country deals with terrorists, we funded terrorists on the CIA's payroll. . .heck we trained Bin laden for cripes sakes.

Then Ken stuck his nose in it... http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235784&page=40&pp=15

Originally Posted by Ken

Bin Laden Comes Home to Roost

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/

Then you did... http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235784&page=41&pp=15

I responded to Ken....

Originally Posted by Mad Mike

Do you see any evidence in those stories? No. You have just shown reporters propagating a myth.

Meawhile:

Fox news? How about Richard Miniter?

http://www.richardminiter.com/bio/index.html

And then you stuck your nose into it.....

It isn't terribly difficult to see how the CIA would support Bin Laden. It is well known that the Bush family has ties to the Bin Laden family, and what was George H. Bush's position during the 70's? CIA director. So...it isn't a huge leap of faith that the Bin Laden family would use its ties to help procure assistance for the cause against the Soviets.

Now if at some point you wish to change the subject of a debate you entered at the end, you should say so. If not, you just defended the position of Chom, who said "heck we trained Bin laden for cripes sakes."

Yeah, ad hominem attacks like contacting the actual author of the story "Bin Laden comes home to roost" and proving it was not quite the smoking gun that Ken was looking for.

Bottom line: Documents, actual paper document that you can hold in your hand, show that Saddam acting as a terrorism factory for the middle east, using that terrorism to target americans, had contacts with al Qaeda, and had the only known aircraft in the world DEDICATED to training terrorists... But somehow Choms response is "well we trained bin Laden". He made this claim with less than on hundredth of the evidence against Iraq. This is the argument that Chom has claimed to win and you stuck your nose in.

Brilliant.

And here's my challenge to you. Where have I ever said "Saddam was behind 9/11"?

[chomerics]

It was a nice effort, chomerics, but I just can't suspend disbelief for this part...

haha very true. . .

[chomerics]

Chom, what are you, like... 10? That was the most childish thing I have ever read on this board. Way to debate the issues. :applause:

LMAO, I have TRIED to debate the issues, I have TRIED to do everything I could to make you a more informed citizen. Instead, you ignored everything I stated, posted your typical right wing lunatic stuff as usual, threw insults around, and basically was nothing more than a nuisance to the rest of us.

It is good that people like you come out of the woodwork every now and then, because it makes the rest of us realize why we are here, and how much fun it can be pointing out the ignorant flaws in conspiracy nutjobs. As one poster mentioned, it is like a train wreck, you hate to look but you just have to! Yes, this is yet another one of those threads where I debate you, you stick your fingers in your ears when I try to tell you anything, and say you won. You are the Black Night of ES Mike, I hope you are proud!

[chomerics]

Chomerics DID say it and I was talking to him. He started this line of "reason" here..

No it does not. . .what is DOES mean is non-involvement with Al Qaeda.

Heck, every country deals with terrorists, we funded terrorists on the CIA's payroll. . .heck we trained Bin laden for cripes sakes.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235784&page=39&pp=15

OK, so I SHOULD have said the money we paid to Pakistan and the ISI, which was matched by Saudi Arabia was used to help fund fighters such as Bin Laden. Not we did not train him directly, but by proxy, I really didn't think you would get caught up in semantics, and try to say that because we did not give a check to him directly, we were not training him. . .but then again when is anything you do rational.

Here is an analogy for you Mike. You are building a house, and you are hired by XYZ contracting. Joe Schmo hires XYZ contracting to build his house. Are you being paid by Joe? Nope, but for all intents and purposes you are. If Joe was not around would you have had work? Possibly. . .In 10 years when you burnt down his other house could it be stated that there was not relationship between you two? Well, technically speaking yea sure. That is why the CIA uses proxies for cripes sakes. So they can keep our country's hands clean when doing dirty business.

Bottom line: Documents, actual paper document that you can hold in your hand, show that Saddam acting as a terrorism factory for the middle east, using that terrorism to target Americans,

Show me where he was creating terrorists to target the United States. Show me Mike. All you have is cherry picked evidence that could be used against ANYONE, heck it could be used against ourselves!!!!

Do you honestly not see this? Do you honestly not understand that EVERYTHING you have shown us as your "undeniable proof" that Saddam was training terrorists to attack the US is something that can be said of ANY country in the Middle East? Do you not understand that WE, the USA under Reagan, were funding terrorists? Do you not understand that we are STILL, to this very freaking minute, giving money to terrorists? Does this escape you?

You seem to be focusing on the minutia, while ignoring everything else going on around you. The so called "evidence" you use is nothing more than propaganda meant to persuade people, like yourself, to believe Saddam was this huge threat when he wasn't. In fact, you are the BEST example I can think of to show not only why but HOW propaganda works!!! You focus on what they tell you while ignoring everything else. . .

Propaganda works, and you are the poster child for how it effects people. It makes you believe whatever tripe and crap they shove down your throat, it makes you ignore the REAL issue, and instead focus your attention elsewhere. It is full of innuendos, and half truths, it is full of believing one thing a person says and then saying they are full of crap in the next sentence. It is not consistent, nor is it a way to either debate or live your life.

Hey, I am sorry that you were duped, I am sorry this whole country was duped, but you like millions of others were. You are being made fun of on this board because your debate consists of ignoring anything someone says that is true, and then just posting your spin on it. You don't answer anyone's questions, and you instead try to find one line in their sentence to focus on to take away the large chasms in your posts. It is intellectually dishonest, and it should not be taken seriously. It should be thrown on the scrap heap with the other moon bat conspiracy nutjobs who do the exact same thing. instead of answering a question, and acknowledging their errors, they jump onto the next subject and do a "yea but" argument. Your entire jumping into this thread has been a "yea but" argument. . . "yea, but what about this" while never answering the original posters question, or acknowledging that you may in deed be wrong.

had contacts with al Qaeda

Mike we had contacts with Al Qaeda. You can not invade a country because one person bumped into someone else at a bar. There was no collaborative relationship between the two, nothing. They hated each other and didn't trust each other. Our government tells us this to their determent, that is why I can believe them! When they say something that hurts them politically, then you can bet that it is the truth! Something such as when Bush told us there was no collaborative relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

Did they have contacts? Sure, as did every other country in the ME. Heck, Saudi Arabia has has probably 20 times the amount of contacts that Iraq had. He still has friends in the Saud family, in spite of what the press would tell you. Saudi Arabia had 1000x more influence into terrorism in the Middle east than Iraq did. That much is a fact. Saddam was nothing more than a piss ant dictator of a piss ant country who didn't even have control of his own borders.

and had the only known aircraft in the world DEDICATED to training terrorists... But somehow Choms response is "well we trained bin Laden".[/qutoe]

Nope, we trained bin laden the same way you were paid for building Joe Schmo's house from XYZ contracting. So what he had an old plan on the ground Mike, so what. He did NOT, and I repeat, he did NOT train Al Qaeda at Salman Pak. . . do you know what the facility was used for Mike??? For ANTI-terrorist training :doh:

Yea, so how is that for egg on your face??? Your supposed "smoking gun" was found out to have been used not FOR training terrorist, but for ANTI-terrorist training!!! In other words, it was used to figure out how to get a plane back from terrorists.

Here is one of the generals who "claimed" that it was used for terrorist training. . .

This general served Saddam Hussein for decades. Along with another Iraqi defector, Sabah Khodada (see below), the general tells of terrorists training in a Boeing 707 resting next to railroad tracks on the edge of Salman Pak, an area south of Baghdad. The existence of the plane has been confirmed by U.N. inspectors. The general describes the men who trained there, the camp's security, and his "gut feeling" that the camp was in some way tied to the Sept. 11 attacks. This interview was done in association with The New York Times and was conducted through a translator on Nov. 6, 2001.

[Editor's Note, November 2005: More than two years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, there has been no verification of the general's account of the activities at Salman Pak. In fact, U.S. officials have now concluded that Salman Pak was most likely used to train Iraqi counter-terrorism units in anti-hijacking techniques. It should also be noted that the general and other defectors interviewed for this report were brought to FRONTLINE's attention by the Iraqi National Congress (INC), a dissident organization that was working to overthrow Saddam Hussein. This interview was conducted by FRONTLINE and The New York Times in Beirut. The Lt. Gen. was later identified in other stories as Abu Zeinab al-Qurairy, a former high-ranking officer in the Mukhabarat, the Iraqi intelligence service. Abu Zeinab reportedly now lives in Baghdad; he claims not to have left Iraq before the fall of Saddam Hussein and that the story of Salman Pak was a hoax. He maintains that the man FRONTLINE and The New York Times interviewed was an impostor provided by the INC. The INC denies this claim, and stands by the original story.]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/

So you see, things are not always as they seem. . .I know I am right because time has proven me right. It was why I argued so vociferously with you in 05' and why I am trying to get this through your thick skull now. Your evidence was fraudulent, and fabricated to justify an invasion of Iraq that was preordained.

Iraq never had anything to do with Al Qaeda, 9-11 or attacks on America. We were lied to, in order to get the neo-cons war. They have made countless billions of dollars off this war, and they are making more every day. Look at who donates to the GOP, and look at what happened to their stock from 02-05. Look at how the war propped up their value, and made all of them countless billions and billions of dollars.

You know, it disgusts me too when I think about it. It disgusts me to death to think of all of our valiant sons and daughters who have been fighting over there in this war which was built on propaganda and hype. It was a war the neo-conservatives wanted, and one in which they got. They could care less about Al Qaeda, and instead used 9-11 to get us to invade Iraq. History is not going to be kind to these individuals, not at all. . . but when you still pimp the information they were giving us in 2002, and think it holds water it doesnt. We know it doesn't because we know what the outcome was.

I know Al Qaeda and Saddam were not working together, history has proven me right. Maybe you will actually open up an unbiased account of history and start to learn what the real truth was about the war. . .why we are in the position we are now, and how we got there to begin with. . .here is a hint, it had nothing to do with 9-11 or Al Qaeda, but the influence of the neocons and PNAC in our government. That is a topic of another thread, but if you want to find out the truth about Iraq, start to research PNAC.

And here's my challenge to you. Where have I ever said "Saddam was behind 9/11"?

You have implied it with every single one of your posts Mike, to claim otherwise is lying to yourself. . .

__________________

[chomerics]

Well hopefully Mad Mike has taken his medicine, and we will not have to put up with the bogus "Saddam trained the 9-11 hijackers" anymore

Well, one can hope can't he :laugh: