Name One Time (ever) Where The 2 Timeout Infraction was Enforced

[CallMeGreen]

I heard the radio clip and even Sonny knew the rule.

See now, if you had said Sam knew the rule I'd feel really bad.

Show of hands here. If I had asked you two months ago what the penalty (if any) was for attempting to call a second consecutive time out, how many of you would have known it was a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty?

:ciao: Me. I saw the timeout being called, yet found myself saying "you can't do that." Now I don't watch a ton of games, so I'm certainly no rules expert. Never had a clue it was a 15-yarder, though I guess I can understand the "intent" of the rule.

Basically every time a coach has TRIED to call the second timeout the Ref has ALWAYS told them, they cannot call a timeout. So, why let Joe Gibbs then call a penalty?

Now having found that didn't Gibbs in his presser after say that he asked the ref if he could and he thought the ref gave him the indication that he could. Now having heard that wouldn't it actually be the ref's job to say Joe you can't do that , it's against the rules >

Valid to me. To Joe's credit, he took the flack for it. But it sounds like the ref gave him a deaf ear, as if to say "I'm not going to prevent you from scre%ing yourself."

[radagast5]

Yea dude it doesn;t have to happen to know it's a rule. It's in the rulebook.

Realistically speaking, no one reads the rule book, and they largely rely on what they've seen. I assure you that 99% of the people calling for Gibbs' hide because they "knew the rule" actually did not know anything about the rule beyond that the second timeout would not be awarded.

These people were taking something they thought they knew and used it as a platform to vent at Gibbs.

[THEREALTOR1]

my wife knew the rule, but ironically, she has no clue what a first down is.

LOL :laugh:

sad, but funny...

HTST

HTTR

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

And I believe you.

I just think you are in a very small minority who knew the rule.

I knew as well, and the correct yardage.

But, the point isn't whether us fans knew, but the coach, the one who get paids millions - his mistake is the point.

[SKINS58]

I would just like to think that he was so emotional about making sure they got that win for Sean Taylor that he accidentally called the second time out. That is the way I am going to leave it with myself. That would have been my excuse.

[radagast5]

this thread is pointless.

gibbs is an nfl head coach. his salary is paid to him to know these rules, and to abide by them. he looked like a complete moron on sunday for doing what he did.

no if ands or buts. i dont care if every single poster in the universe didnt know the rule, none of us are paid to know the rules. joe gibbs gets a paycheck every week from the redskins to know the rules of the game and make calls accordingly. i dont care how obscure it is, its his job to know, and he screwed up big time.

I do enjoy the irony involved in you choosing to take time to comment on something you found pointless.

You create the perfect Straw Man argument. Nowhere in this thread have I excused Gibbs from knowing the rule. And, in fact, there are several instances where I clearly stated that I DO hold Gibbs responsible for knowing all the rules.

This thread was my attempt to point out that I think almost everyone claiming they knew the rule really didn't know the rule at all. Therefore, the excoriation of Gibbs using that "even I knew the rule" tack was a nothing more than people venting via a fundamentally flawed argument.

[rdsknfan]

No, no. I'm not intimating that the call was wrong.

I'm asserting that 99% of the people who said they knew it was a 15-yard penalty are full of crap. So, I asked for someone to provide me an example of the infraction being enforced.

Please don't assume that you know for sure that 99% of the people don't know the rule. All one has to do is to have read through the NFL rulebook and picked up on it. (Below). Plus providing an example does not neccesitate that people don't know what they are talking about.

I sure don't know all of the rules and penalty associated with football, but I sure as heck knew this one.

Note 1: In case of consecutive time outs between downs, time is in according to the

classification of the last time out (4-3-1-Note 1).

Note 2: Consecutive team time outs between downs by either team are allowed so long as

they are not by the same team and no additional consecutive team time outs can be

taken during the same dead ball period. Such time outs may follow an automatic time

out (4-3-1) or Referee’s time out (4-3-7) and maximum length of the second time out will

be 30 seconds. An attempt by a team to call its second charged time out during the

same dead ball period to “freeze” a kicker prior to a field-goal attempt or Try attempt is

unsportsmanlike conduct. See 12-3-1-u.

A.R. 4.4 Following a Referee’s time out after a change of possession after a punt:

a) Team B takes its third team time out.

Ruling: Time in with snap.

Team B takes its fourth team time out prior to last two minutes.

Ruling: Team B is penalized 5 yards and time is in with snap.

Article 3 The Referee shall suspend play while the ball is dead and declare a charged

team time out upon the request for a time out by the head coach or any player to any

official.

If the Referee calls a time out for an injured player, a team time out will be charged if:

(a) the injured player remains in the game; or

( players on the field or from the bench attempt to assist the injured player from the field,

without being directed to do so by their team physician, trainer, or the Referee; or

© the injury occurs after the two-minute warning of either half.

Exceptions:

(1) if a foul committed by an opponent causes the injury, a time out is not charged

even if it occurs after the two-minute warning or if the player remains in the

game.

(2) if the injury occurs on a play in which there is a change of possession, a time

out is not charged even if it occurs after the two-minute warning. The injured

player may remain in the game if a time out is called by either team.

Note: Members of both teams may go to the sideline for conference with coaches during

an injury time out, but must be ready to play when Referee signals ball in play as soon as

treatment is completed or injured player has left the field.

Time Out

for Injury

Not Charged

Charged

Time Outs

Consecutive

Time Outs

Time In

on Referee’s

Whistle

Time In

After Out

of Bounds

Rule 4, Section 3, Article 3

OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 19

B1-Rule Book RULES p1-76.qxd 6/7/2006 10:02 PM Page 19

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Yeah, as crazy as it sounds, I knew this rule from playing Madden as a kid. It's been a rule for a long long time. Gibbs just had a brain fart and under the circumstances, I guess I can see why he did it. My point on Sunday was that there's a reason why you don't see them called back to back in that situation: the refs don't let the coaches call the 2nd one. That's truly what I believe happened. IMO, I think the side judge F'ed that one up and the league officials aren't saying anything about it. Joe isn't a lier. He said that he was pretty sure the guy said "yes" when asked if Joe could call the second timeout. Then the guy said, "when do you want to call it?" I think Joe is certainly at fault, but the ref could've said "no" and/or ignored his call for the 2nd one there. Its something I want to forget about though. I just want a win tonight

HTTR

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I do enjoy the irony involved in you choosing to take time to comment on something you found pointless.

You create the perfect Straw Man argument. Nowhere in this thread have I excused Gibbs from knowing the rule. And, in fact, there are several instances where I clearly stated that I DO hold Gibbs responsible for knowing all the rules.

This thread was my attempt to point out that I think almost everyone claiming they knew the rule really didn't know the rule at all. Therefore, the excoriation of Gibbs using that "even I knew the rule" tack was a nothing more than people venting via a fundamentally flawed argument.

ill admit i didnt know the rule, but im not paid to. it seems pretty clear though, that numerous posters here did know the rule whether it be from video games or just knowing the rule from watching or listening to football (i play madden but i rarely call timeouts haha).

so if your goal was to point out that plenty didnt know the rule, it doesnt look like thats been accomplished. again, i personally didnt know the rule, but im not paid to. joe gibbs is.

[arkowi]

i am big enough to admit i didn't know the rule. i remembered it from madden once they made the call.

[AzSkinsFan63]

I believe there was a national game this year in which it was brought up..especially due to the new way of icing the kicker by waiting til right before the snap. Which is why a lot of fans knew the rule..

But JG does not watch every game and when they do it's usually game film minus the announcers. Yes he should have known the rule..

[AzSkinsFan63]

Who knew the Tuck rule before it happened?...absolutely no one... :laugh:

[mrcunning15]

To tell you the truth I never really knew that rule, I never saw a coach call two timeouts to ice the kicker so from puting too and too together thats why (b/c it's a 15 yard penalty). To tell you the truth I didnt think he called a time out I thought the ref was coming over to tell the holder to pick up his towel which was on the field of play. I mean you wouldn't let a qb just take off his hand warmer and put it behind him. Was I the only one who noticed the towel on the field. Granted we knew it would be the last play of the game but still you can't have objects on the field of play.

[box8276]

I see there are alot of psychic people here mind reading. The fans didnt f-up, who cares if anyone knew the rule or not. Our coaches make bone-headed decisions all the time. No use pointing out the fans flaws, there is ALOT of tape of the coaches flaws you can discuss.

[SkinsNut73]

Cut the man some slack...this is the NFL where the official rule book is probably larger than a Manhattan phone book. For crying out loud, we're talking about a league that has rules about what color your shoes must be, how to position your socks/tuck your shirt....you can celebrate a TD by yourself but as soon as someone else joins you it's a penalty....

...he would have never had to be in position to call a 2nd timeout if the offense came away with TD's instead of FG's in the first half. On our final 6 possessions our offense was only on the field for 20 plays and had 2 turnovers in that time...maybe if the players had done their job it would have been a different story??? In light of Taylor's death, it really doesn't matter...

This horse has been beat to death. Move on....

[dfbovey]

Sure, I have no problem believing a handful of hardcore NFL fans would take time to read such material. But I'd ask you, do you really think the overwhelming majority of the fans claiming to know the full rule (that it was a 15-yard penalty and only in this instance) really took time to read that literature?

I don't. And that's my point: most of this is a Straw Man argument.

I assume that a good majority of people who actually take the time to post on a message board are relatively into the sport and not just casual fans. So no, it doesn't surprise me that there are people out there who are aware of the rules before they actually witness the infractions in a game situation.

I've talked to a lot of people about this online and off, most people I talked to knew it would result in a penalty but they weren't clear on whether it was a personal foul or not... some thought it was a delay of game penalty. But 9 out of 10 new it would result in a penalty of some kind. Maybe I'm just friends with a bunch of fanatics.

[Stophovr6]

Just because you didn't know the rule OP, doesn't mean other people didn't.

I didn't know the rule. But your assumption that 99 percent of people who claim they did, did not is silly.

[skinstzar]

I'm sure others have said it but I will say it too. I knew right when they did that it was a penalty. I knew they were about to have it called on them. I knew the rule and the penalty inforcement of 15 yards. I already had the distance of the kick figured out in my head before the refs spotted the ball. It isn't rocket science.

I do have to admit that this is something I pride myself on as a football fan. I know the rules. I know all the illegal formation rules and can see them before a snap starts. I know all of the clock rules and personal foul rules. I know what can be reviewed and what cannot. For a long time now the NFL has had the rules posted plainly on their website.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook

If you are making the excuse that Joe Gibbs got caught up in the moment and that is should be forgiven then I ask you this. If it were not Joe Gibbs would you pardon so easily? No, you wouldn't so you shouldn't pardon it here. Joe Gibbs probably hasn't pardoned himself.

I bet you that a lot of members on this board could hold a seminar about clock management and rules that would benefit our current staff.

[akorn22]

It doesn;t matter how many times it happened in the past. It also doesn;t matter if any fans even knew the rule. Coaches must know the rule. I'm very upset that gibbs didn;t. It definitely hit his credibility a bit.

[CM916]

I just found out this season that you can catch and return a missed field goal that comes down in bounds when it happened twice in one week a while back, one for a winning TD. I always thought you had to block it first. They do it all the time in the AFL but I always figured that's because they don't have punts.

[McMetal]

This makes two calls against the Skins I have never heard or seen called anywhere else in the NFL at any time in the past 30+ years.

The other was that ridiculous "simulating the snap count" penalty from a few years back...like that doesn't happen on every play.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

This makes two calls against the Skins I have never heard or seen called anywhere else in the NFL at any time in the past 30+ years.

The other was that ridiculous "simulating the snap count" penalty from a few years back...like that doesn't happen on every play.

i think that was arrington. he was pretending to say hike hike or something like that, 15 yard penalty. haha so awful.

[BAFGA]

I did not know the rule and I was surprised that coaches didn't burn all of the timeouts that they had in their arsenal before a kick. I guess I know why they don't now.

[ddub52]

Well, i knew you couldnt call timeout 2 times in a row, but I just thought that the officials would say "no you cant use a 2nd timeout". rather than letting him call it and throw a 15 yard penalty.

[skinstzar]

This is my favorite

Touchdown Awarded (Palpably Unfair Act)

When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown. (Example: Player comes off bench and tackles runner apparently en route to touchdown.) I long for the day when this one gets called.

Now I don't agree with a lot of the rules but that might be a different thread. For instance the snap simulation penalty occurs when a player who is eligable to go in motion abruptly moves up or forward to simulate a motion. I don't see how this is any different than a hard count. I like to call it the Tight End's Hard Count.