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I was wrong about this Organization

REDALERT

By REDALERT
in The Stadium

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REDALERT

REDALERT

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Sorry people, but this Organization well take a few years to right the ship, but that depends on what changes are made in the front office anytime soon and that includes coach. Because IMO, I think Joe is now a little too soft on his players. This along with the screw ups from the front office has left Joe to coach players that are not leaders, but rather followers. And as the season moves on and the games losses go, the coach covers up for every single loss and it rubs off on the players. How many times have we heard players making excuses for the coaching and the coaches making excuses for the players along with bad game planning and decision making?

Right now, the players overall don't have real leadership from within, and cannot handle the real adversities and let downs. And it doesn't seem any player will get into another players face and tell him when his sh@t stinks. Maybe after this year Fletcher will take over some of those duties. But as of right now, he probably feels he's the newcomer and leads by example on the playing field and not holding his teammates accountable for poor play and disruption. Even players like Portis stated they somewhat followed in the footsteps of Taylor and how he played on the field, but Taylor was not our leader. I even posted several times about the beginning of the year when Fletcher had to speak up during the Miami game. Also, you can notice sometimes in the players body language that if a certain player is out they feel demoralized. Especially if the opposing team beats them on certain plays and battles them till the end, it's like they lose confidence. And this happen during the Miami game, Giants game, Arizona game, Patriots game, Jets game, 2nd Eagles game and now the Bills game. This teams makeup cannot overcome let downs during games when certain players are missing due to injury or what have you. So don't tell me losing a teammate is an excuse for losing confidence during a game, because confident players would rally around such a thing and just don’t have many of those players if any. Because the Skins could not overcome getting battled tested by the Bills and loss that game, where’s the toughness?

You want to see a team with toughness, real leaders and hard core players that can use Taylor's death as a motivational factor, see the Ravens. They smacked up the best team in the NFL by leaps and bounds to only come a tad short with lesser talent. Also, see the Eagles, they're also capable of doing the same thing against tougher teams, and that’s with injuries and adversity within the organization. And that’s because they have leaders that demand respect, tough play and bringing they’re all and hold players accountable. It's guys like Ray Lewis, Brian Dawkins, Michael Strahan and a few other players on those teams that can will they're teammates to play better and give all they have with some heart, tenacity, confidence and total focus. Unfortunately, the skins don't have these kind of players or coaches like the Ravens, Giants, Eagles, etc. And again, coach Gibbs is much more softer then he used to be during his first stint. But also, during Joe's first stint, we had real leaders and players like I described above that would hold teammates accountable and demand focus, confidence and tough play and would get in they're faces if they didn’t. It wasn’t no curling up and feeling bad about yourself after making mistakes. You just dust yourself off forget about it and bring it on the next play (see Sean Taylor). Yes! Sean was this type of player but he was not our leader. He was still young and maturing right before our eyes, and probably would have been in due time.

Example of the non-leadership overall within the organization. Joe's now following Danny opposed to leading like he did in his first stint with the Organization. Because this is the new NFL opposed to what it used to be in his day, it's the big money FA spending and players with bad attitudes and ego’s. These players of today are more so ego maniacs and think they're gods gift to this game. They don't respect the coaches like back in Joe's first stint because it’s too much money involved and given. How many times have we read articles about players going off on coaches? The most recent one I read was about Brandon Lloyd. What about players not contacting coaches or going off on they're on to work out when the coach specifically stated he wanted all players attending the OTA's etc. And I’m not singling out any certain player, just players overall and sometimes they’re ****iness.

Look, it's the new NFL and Joe's past his time in dealing with these type of players and the changes in today's game with coaching, speed, philosophies, adjustments, management, money, identifying talent and the likes. Sure, he can hang, but not with the big boys and younger coaches of today and today’s game. It’s like he’s just a tad bit behind and everything is moving so fast all at once. Today’s game, it's not just about power, it's about speed and power and versatility in players overall to do certain things and be utilized properly on the playing field in all aspects. You must be able to adapt and make changes on the fly during the games because the game is so fast pace opposed to how it used to be in Joe's first stint. It's about attacking and attacking so more constantly without hesitation, and it seems like even Gregg Williams has toned down from his attacking style from the past. Why? I have no idea. Maybe it's the leadership and influence from the head coach or maybe's he's just not the answer. I'm just quite sure he’s not the answer. But isn’t it funny that Gibbs always seem to lean on Danny to lead this organization and make the decisions on critical football related issues and adversity? It’s a mistake. Sure, I know Danny owns this team, but Danny had nothing to do with football anything before purchasing the team. And Gibbs always throws Danny name out there like he's the leader and how much he appreciates Danny and what he’s done for this organization. Even during the Taylor incident, Joe stated they were going to take Danny’s lead and do what they have to. Ok, fine. Again, I know Danny owns this team, but Danny idolized Gibbs and has ever since when he was a child. And I understand Danny’s the chief of money operations. But when it comes to football tradition, football knowledge and coming up from the ranks of taking over for your farther and others that lead you with football knowledge, Dan’s lacking big time. So in retrospect, it's now like the blind leading the blind. Why? because Gibbs some what follows Danny and is terrified in disappointing him after getting paid big time to turn the franchise around. That's part of the reason Joe looks baffled at times on the sidelines and make bad decisions to often. It’s like he's trying to hard to do all he can to please us the fans and Danny himself. And what it boils down to is at times the current makeup of the NFL, it's players, owners, speed, philosophies, money and fame is just to overwhelming for Joe to handle all at once and coaching at the same time, and it shows constantly during game days and after game days.

See, as we all know, it starts from the top, and the top of the food chain is just plain salty with Danny not having a traditional football mind guiding the way and making good sound football decisions. Unfortunately, Vinny Cerrato doesn’t count. The only counting Vinny is doing is counting the money Danny’s dishing out to him on a yearly basis. And don’t ask Danny if anything’s wrong with that picture, him and Vinny. He would probably tell you everything’s been working out just fine, and that’s just insanity. You know insanity “doing the same thing expecting different result” insanity, yes that’s the Organization right now. So I have to admit, I was wrong. I started a thread here stating that this team was not an Average Team, and it’s certainly that “Average”. :(

So be prepared for years of mediocrity unless Danny decide he does indeed need a knowledgeable GM. Like during an interview not to long ago when asked if he needs one and he stated Gibbs was doing just fine. Well, his best bet is to probably do something similar, and that’s put Gibbs in the FO, hire a new coach, demote Vinny and stay out of the way and sign the checks. And not to mention our best player that was slowly becoming the leader and the heart and soul of this Organization was murdered is truly painful. Sean was becoming if not already the Redskins franchise player and can never be replaced (RIP).

HAIL

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CallMeGreen

CallMeGreen

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...You want to see a team with toughness, real leaders and hard core players that can use Taylor's death as a motivational factor, see the Ravens. They smacked up the best team in the NFL by leaps and bounds to only come a tad short with lesser talent....

Then whined like little babies when things didn't turn out their way.

Sorry, I'd rather lose with class than win, e-r-r wait, they lost without class didn't they? Give me class over the long haul, rather than short term winning and whining.

The Ravens are a microcosm of why our kids complain to referees, teachers and parents and don't take responsibility for their own mistakes. No thanks.

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herb mul-key

herb mul-key

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I was ready to tell you off Red but I skimmed your post and I agree with the fact we don't have leaders who are beasts and the ones we have are gone or hurt

Thomas

Jansen

Washington - back now

gone

Arrington--c'mon he was one the team rode when he was healthy

Pierce -

Bailey -

Salevia

Wynn

ST - was on the way to a real leadership position

We do need leaders who dominate physically and can pick the team up verbally...our defense is so young now!

Marcus and Randy are closest things I see. I don't think Fletch has enough equity in playing here and might build some resentment from other players the way he has been crowned and he is giving up plays right and left now as the season drags.

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REDALERT

REDALERT

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Then whined like little babies when things didn't turn out their way.

Sorry, I'd rather lose with class than win, e-r-r wait, they lost without class didn't they? Give me class over the long haul, rather than short term winning and whining.

The Ravens are a microcosm of why our kids complain to referees, teachers and parents and don't take responsibility for their own mistakes. No thanks.

Please, I'm not any where close to being a Raven fan, but stop hating. The team had a down year this year, but they still fight with the best of them. And did you notice how many playoff games they've been lately and not shortly removed from winning a SB? What about our dearly beloved Skins,and to think the Ravens play in a wide open AFC with the likes of Brady, Manning and the likes.

And other from being upset and showing some emotion and passion, what was it that makes the Ravens classless? Thank You, it was one individual and we've had a few of those type ourselves here in Redskin nation before, and I bet they we're getting paid a fortune and did nothing.

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TLusby

TLusby

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GM = Success; This is the picture that most of you paint. Jerry Jones is the GM of Dallas and the last time I looked they had one loss. Miami has a GM and they do not have any wins. A GM doesn't mean squat! We have the coaches and the process to be good. We should be 8-4 at a minimum right now and we would dominate had we not had twice the injuries of any other team in the NFC. We have consistantly had 7-8 starters out of our line up. One more year of a decent draft and 2-3 FA signings, and this team with normal injuries is a 2nd round playoff team. Fans would not be so pissed after our losses if they didn't expect to win; thus, the team must be better than their performance. If that statement is correct; perhaps, the FO has done their job but the players (due to injuries) are not getting it done.

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Forehead

Forehead

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The best point you made was the need for a real GM, you just made the point more articulately than the average post around here. It was an enjoyable read, I'd like to think that McIntosh or Landry could eventually take the role. They are both young, solid players. McIntosh has played hurt and shown some serious fire. We'll see how it goes. If not them, maybe Griffin in the short term? I agree though, Taylor would have been the guy.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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REDALERT -- Sorry people, but this Organization well take a few years to right the ship, but that depends on what changes are made in the front office anytime soon and that includes coach. Because IMO, I think Joe is now a little too soft on his players. This along with the screw ups from the front office has left Joe to coach players that are not leaders, but rather followers.

The word "leadership" has become meaningless in these discussions about football. In the real world, leaders must have the authority to lead. The head coach is the ultimate leader of a football team. He can delegate authority to his assistants. Players cannot be leaders in this sense of the word.

A player trying to motivate his teammates -- this isn't leadership, it's cheerleading. A player who dogs his teammates about their poor play -- this isn't leadership; it's oafish behavior. Correcting mistakes and pushing players to perform is the coach's job.

As for coaching and "discipline," consider the case of Jim Fassel. The New York media said he had lost his team by being too soft. Then they said that his replacement Tom Coughlin was losing his team because he was too hard.

When football teams lose games, 99.42 % of the time it's because the players aren't good enough, the coaching isn't good enough, or a combination of the two.

Our team has mediocre players and mediocre coaching which results in a mediocre won-lost record.

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REDALERT

REDALERT

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GM = Success; This is the picture that most of you paint. Jerry Jones is the GM of Dallas and the last time I looked they had one loss. Miami has a GM and they do not have any wins. A GM doesn't mean squat! We have the coaches and the process to be good. We should be 8-4 at a minimum right now and we would dominate had we not had twice the injuries of any other team in the NFC. We have consistantly had 7-8 starters out of our line up. One more year of a decent draft and 2-3 FA signings, and this team with normal injuries is a 2nd round playoff team. Fans would not be so pissed after our losses if they didn't expect to win; thus, the team must be better than their performance. If that statement is correct; perhaps, the FO has done their job but the players (due to injuries) are not getting it done.

Why did I know the Jerry Jones issue would arise. Let me help you here.

Jerry Jones didn't have squat in players before he hired Jimmy Johnson. Jerry Jones bought a Dallas franchise that was old and depleted, ok. The best thing he did was hire a middle aged coach that was eager, energetic and aspiring when it came to X's and O's in the college ranks, and he won a National Championship. But you see, just about around that time is when the game really started to change. It wasn't just about power anymore, it was now about power, speed and youthfulness. Yes! it was Jimmy Johnson that started the youth program in the NFL IMO, and he did it through the draft.

Jimmy traded the best player that is now considered #3 on the all-time best college player list presented by ESPN, I think ESPN. Anyhow, it's Hershel Walker. Jimmy Johnson traded Hershel Walker to the Vikings for a boat load of draft picks, and still till this day it was considered the biggest robbery in the NFL. But after all those picks, Jimmy used them all including the ones the Cowboys currently had to slowly build the Cowboys into a dynasty during the 90's. You heard of Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin haven't you? he even had the luxury to have a QB controversy because Aikman wasn't even the first QB he selected during the draft. It was another QB I forget his name, but he was drafted pretty darn high, and Aikman end up beating him out eventually.

Anyhow, Jimmy Johnson built the Cowboys after Jerry bought the franchise, ok. Jimmy was just coming out of the college ranks and knew the college talent that was out there, including the college he coached and the guys he coached and recruited. He drafted a few of them and also Emmitt who played for him. Nobody in the NFL thought Emmitt would be anything, But Jimmy Johnson knew college talent. After winning 2 SB's Jerry fired Jimmy because Jerry had the big head and thought he built the team, but it was Jimmy and everyone knew it. But Jerry fired Jimmy and was left with the same young core players that just won 2 SB's with everyone still intact. All he had to do was hire another coach, any coach for that matter to just coach. Because the Cowboys we're so young and talented back then they could've probably won without a coach, get my drift. So Jerry hired the Oklahoma coach and guess what, they won another SB. And not to mention all Jerry had to do was make that good team better by signing Deion Sanders that was still in his prime, not like when Snyder signed him when he was done :laugh: .

So they're you have it, Jerry didn't need a GM, he already had the players and he rode them till he could no more. Why you think Dallas has been bad ever since Troy, Emmitt, Irvin and that OL left or got old? Then Jerry tried drafting after the dynasty got old and was failing just like Snyder :laugh:. All the cowboys fans we're giving him smack for not getting a GM also my friend after failing miserably for several years. Then he got smart and hired Bill Parcells, another coach that also had an eye for college talent and also a soon to be hall-of-Fame coach.

The Cowboys you are riding was built by Bill Parcells himself and Phillips is reaping the benefits, K. But Bill Parcells always had an eye for college talent unlike Joe Gibbs. Gibbs was better in seeing TE's for blocking and catching (see Cooley). But the GM provided Gibbs with players in his first stint that help him win 3 SB's, it wasn't Gibbs. Gibbs was a helluva coach that was eager, inspiring, creative and very motivated back then and helped revolutionize the one back offense's and the counter trey. Not to mention the 2 set TE's to help block the monstrous Lawence Taylor.

So yes,we need a GM.

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dez_mick

dez_mick

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Why did I know the Jerry Jones issue would arise. Let me help you here.

Jerry Jones didn't have squat in players before he hired Jimmy Johnson. Jerry Jones bought a Dallas franchise that was old and depleted, ok. The best thing he did was hire a middle aged coach that was eager, energetic and aspiring when it came to X's and O's in the college ranks, and he won a National Championship. But you see, just about around that time is when the game really started to change. It wasn't just about power anymore, it was now about power, speed and youthfulness. Yes! it was Jimmy Johnson that started the youth program in the NFL IMO, and he did it through the draft.

Jimmy traded the best player that is now considered #3 on the all-time best college player list presented by ESPN, I think ESPN. Anyhow, it's Hershel Walker. Jimmy Johnson traded Hershel Walker to the Vikings for a boat load of draft picks, and still till this day it was considered the biggest robbery in the NFL. But after all those picks, Jimmy used them all including the ones the Cowboys currently had to slowly build the Cowboys into a dynasty during the 90's. You heard of Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin haven't you? he even had the luxury to have a QB controversy because Aikman wasn't even the first QB he selected during the draft. It was another QB I forget his name, but he was drafted pretty darn high, and Aikman end up beating him out eventually.

Anyhow, Jimmy Johnson built the Cowboys after Jerry bought the franchise, ok. Jimmy was just coming out of the college ranks and knew the college talent that was out there, including the college he coached and the guys he coached and recruited. He drafted a few of them and also Emmitt who played for him. Nobody in the NFL thought Emmitt would be anything, But Jimmy Johnson knew college talent. After winning 2 SB's Jerry fired Jimmy because Jerry had the big head and thought he built the team, but it was Jimmy and everyone knew it. But Jerry fired Jimmy and was left with the same young core players that just won 2 SB's with everyone still intact. All he had to do was hire another coach, any coach for that matter to just coach. Because the Cowboys we're so young and talented back then they could've probably won without a coach, get my drift. So Jerry hired the Oklahoma coach and guess what, they won another SB. And not to mention all Jerry had to do was make that good team better by signing Deion Sanders that was still in his prime, not like when Snyder signed him when he was done :laugh: .

So they're you have it, Jerry didn't need a GM, he already had the players and he rode them till he could no more. Why you think Dallas has been bad ever since Troy, Emmitt, Irvin and that OL left or got old? Then Jerry tried drafting after the dynasty got old and was failing just like Snyder :laugh:. All the cowboys fans we're giving him smack for not getting a GM also my friend after failing miserably for several years. Then he got smart and hired Bill Parcells, another coach that also had an eye for college talent and also a soon to be hall-of-Fame coach.

The Cowboys you are riding was built by Bill Parcells himself and Phillips is reaping the benefits, K. But Bill Parcells always had an eye for college talent unlike Joe Gibbs. Gibbs was better in seeing TE's for blocking and catching (see Cooley). But the GM provided Gibbs with players in his first stint that help him win 3 SB's, it wasn't Gibbs. Gibbs was a helluva coach that was eager, inspiring, creative and very motivated back then and helped revolutionize the one back offense's and the counter trey. Not to mention the 2 set TE's to help block the monstrous Lawence Taylor.

So yes,we need a GM.

I think we have to look at Jerry Jones as a unique situation. Jerry has been around football most of his life. Its obvious that he knows alot more about football than either Dan Snyder or Vinny Cerrato. Thats why hes been good at putting together this team. Jerry was the one drafting those defensive players that made their team so good. He was also the one who DID NOT trade away draft picks unlike a certain owner we all know of. He was the one who made the deal for TO, like it or not.

That Jerry can be a successful owner and personnel manager seems to be the exception and not the rule when you look around the league. We need to stop comparing our organizational setup to Dallas' and look to whats worked in the past.

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mdskins75

mdskins75

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Sorry people, but this Organization well take a few years to right the ship, but that depends on what changes are made in the front office anytime soon ............

HAIL

I didn't read all of that but caught the line about the eagles/ravens heart. Yeah that's why they lost to New England. They got no W, might as well have lost 435-0. If you are using that argument the Redskins are close every single week.

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