#1 Problem [= Lack of Pass Rush]

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Tell it to Vinny.

I read he made a statement to the effect that you don't need to spend the money or high draft picks on elite defensive linemen. That they're basically interchangeable and it's better to just "coach 'em up."

Seems like the last, oh I don't know, 40 Super Bowl champions have disproved that theory, but what do I know?

more than vinny, rest assured.

[Forever21]

Passrush? Hmmm...funny how no one has ever brought this up until now...maybe if one or two people here had mentioned this before the draft or near the end of last season we could have discussed this a bit here at extremeskins and maybe then the front office would have noticed and drafted someone who can do this 'passrush' thing you speak of.

Not saying you're wrong but my god do we have to keep beating this dead horse? I mean...the horse is dead...can we not ease up on the beating?

Besides...out number one problem this year was better outlined here...

The number one issue is injuries

I am not going to outline them all, because of my aversion to beating dead horses, but injuries have played a bigger role than 'passrush' this season.

[Aghar]

This coincides with problem 1a: Gregg Williams stubborness.

You dont change the gameplan at all after oh say..... THE THIRD TO TOUCHDOWN?? You have to make guys like Crayton and Herd beat you. I'll take my chances with those guys before I would a dynamic wideout like TO. Like him or not, he is a great WR. We didnt even try to jam him. We passed him off to stand still safety's while all 230 pounds of him is in a sprint down the field.

Bingo! :applause:

No adjustments at halftime = 14 losses after leading at half during Gibbs II. Period.

[JRAB]

The entire football world knew the Skins needed a better rush after last season. Too bad they didn't seem to notice.

Thank you! I'm with you, brother.

I've been screaming since the 2005 draft to please, PLEASE get someone on the DL. We have such a soft DL that it's hard to play any kind of decent defense.

When you can drop 7 in coverage and still create a pass rush with your front 4, it help out so much. That's what good defenses can do.

We can't.

[DCsportsfan53]

whats even funnier about this, is that gregg williams switched us to a tampa 2 zone defense, where the two most important players are your defensive ends and how much heat they can bring.

so of course we draft secondary and linebackers.

We would be ten times the defense we've been if only we didn't play another snap of Tampa 2 this season. We have corners who can play on an island (and who are much better at that than zone coverage, to boot), we have LBer's who are good blitzers, safeties who are good blitzers and a run stuffing DL. So you take that and play Cover 2?!?!? ****ing Greggggg is killing me with that ****. I can't stand it. We blitzed Dallas early and often in the first half and did well with it. As soon as we were behind and the game was tight, GW reverted to the Tampa 2 and Cover 3 for most of the second half and we paid for it. Bring the heat, let your corners play, it's what your known for ******* and it's how our players play best.

[tex]

pass rush = my new number one priority for this team to include a collapse the pocket mauling mean nasty DT and a bad to the bone quarterback sack machine type DE. Also would be looking for some DB and O-Line help.

Depending on the status of Rogers and Springs DB need may need to be prioritized as well.

If this team ever needed a GM with a nose for talent and an owner that won't throw away draft picks and pay too much for football wannabes, nows the time.

[deejaydana]

I truly don't know why more people on this board don't cite this as the reason we get owned in the defensive backfield. It ALL starts up front and while I think the younger guys are coming around we really need a run stuffing DT (who could help Carter become that much more effective). We need to draft at least two D-linemen in the early rounds next year. Haynesworth is going to command huge dollars and prolly get franchised by Tenn anyway.

[Taylor 36]

Carter is doing a great job. Please stop acting like our line is horrible. It is much better than most people predicted it would be. Do we need to upgrade this offseason? Sure. But don't act like this is the worst d line in the league.

[Hooper]

The d-line hasn't been as bad as I thought it would be. Carter has had a nice year -- even though every good tackle he's faced has neutralized him. And the young guys look like decent players.

BUT we can't settle for this. We need to make the d-line a strength of this team. Can anyone remember when it was? Vinny is on record as saying "he doesn't believe in drafting defensive linemen." I suspect he meant in the early rounds, but still...

[deejaydana]

Carter is doing a great job. Please stop acting like our line is horrible. It is much better than most people predicted it would be. Do we need to upgrade this offseason? Sure. But don't act like this is the worst d line in the league.

When you're at the bottom (see 2006 season) you have nowhere to go but up. Our D-line does need work. In that NE game they ran right off the bat at will against us. It was embarrasing to see.

[skinsn24]

whats even funnier about this, is that gregg williams switched us to a tampa 2 zone defense, where the two most important players are your defensive ends and how much heat they can bring.

so of course we draft secondary and linebackers.

Exactly, we went from a team with a decent Dline in 04 that blitzed all the time to a team with no dline that never blitzes. Brilliant.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Carter is doing a great job. Please stop acting like our line is horrible. It is much better than most people predicted it would be. Do we need to upgrade this offseason? Sure. But don't act like this is the worst d line in the league.

Carter is doing a nice job. But I think Sunday proved the inherent design flaw in undersized DEs. They are small.

[wit 33]

I have been voicing my frustrations on this issue since last year, but I think we all have to understand that finding a premiere pass rusher is extremely difficult. What premire pass rushers were available on the open market last year? None. How are Gaines Adams and Jamaal Anderson impacting their respective teams this year? Not very much. Will they in the future? Who knows, but in this season they have not displayed much greatness. So my point to you all is that you have to either encounter some luck in the draft, or in the open market. In the open market you are forced to pay a fortune to a player and compete with other franchises for his services. As I some what stated previously open market premiere DE's do not come along often, and when they do, they get a fortune (Javon Kearse- has he earned the money he got?).

Will luck be on our side this off season? I surely hope so!

[DieselPwr44]

Tommy Harris = Redskin #1 First Stop!

Hell no.

You think Griff gets hurt alot....wait till you get a load of Harris, who can only manage about 7 games a season healthy.

[DieselPwr44]

How are Gaines Adams and Jamaal Anderson impacting their respective teams this year? Not very much. !

Amobi Okoye would look pretty good on our line right now. He's been having a good year down in Houston. Too bad we passed him up.

[laxpck]

Hell no.

You think Griff gets hurt alot....wait till you get a load of Harris, who can only manage about 7 games a season healthy.

He is injured cause he is currently getting triple teamed every play.

Big diff between Griff and Tommy is like 10 years of age.

I know he is not a FA until 2009, but people void the last year of their contract every season. Show him some money, show him some support and he will come here and dominate. That team is about to revolt upon itself. Its in the same boat as Baltimore, a great D who is sick and tired of not having O.

[DieselPwr44]

a great D who is sick and tired of not having O.

Ummm, where do you see this great D??

I see a defense that when completely healthy, is just above average.

[DCsportsfan53]

Carter is doing a great job. Please stop acting like our line is horrible. It is much better than most people predicted it would be. Do we need to upgrade this offseason? Sure. But don't act like this is the worst d line in the league.

Oh, I agree. The 4 man rush has been solid, Carter has been playing well. The problem lies in the fact that Gregg insists on playing a style of defense that requires and is predicated on a dominant 4 man rush.

Solid they may be, dominant in the run game they may be but they are not a dominant pass rushing line. That's just a fact. The Tampa 2 is built around that, guys like Freeney and Mathis, Sapp and Rice, Tommie Harris and Ogunleye. That's what you need to make it work. You have to be able to disrupt 3 step drops with 4 guys. We're good but not that good.

If GW's would simply stop being so ****ing stubburn, let his press man CBs play some man and play on an island and allow guys like Landry, McIntosh and Washington to get after the opposing QB, our defense would look MUCH better.

Just look at the Dallas game, in the first half, we played almost no Tampa 2, blitzed frequently and were disruptive and we were getting pressure on Romo sits to pee. Early in the second half, he switched to Tampa 2 and Cover 3. ALL 3 of TOs second half TDs came against a 4 man rush playing zone, usually Tampa 2 behind it and Romo sits to pee simply had too much time. Cut it out Gregg, give up the ghost, it's not who you are and it's not who these players are. Attack, bring the fight to the offense. Get your ****ing balls back.

[wit 33]

Amobi Okoye would look pretty good on our line right now. He's been having a good year down in Houston. Too bad we passed him up.

Were fine at DT

[DieselPwr44]

Were fine at DT

I don't believe that.

Griff, when healthy,is pretty good. But that's starting to be a problem. He get's nicked up more time than not, taking him out of the game.

Montgomery has been a pleasant suprise. IMO, the lone bright spot of the DT's.

Whatever happened to Golston? Last season, he was making plays. This year, he seems to have disappeared. One hit wonder??

Carter's decent coming off the edge but once you chip him, you never see him. Besides, if teams want to double him, they do so knowing that the other 3 guys aren't a threat.

Phillip Daniels?? Good run stopper but the last time he was a consistent pass rusher was when Annie Oakley rode horseback.

We go through this every year. Build the defense backwards. How many #1 picks are invested in the secondary?? Is it too much to ask to invest a couple of day one picks into the area where games are decided: the trenches??

What's the first thing people here say when asked about our Dline. Solid run stoppers(debatable) and average pass rushers.

If this team operated in this fashion in Gibbs first go around, Charles Mann and Dexter Manley would never have been drafted.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He is injured cause he is currently getting triple teamed every play.

Big diff between Griff and Tommy is like 10 years of age.

I know he is not a FA until 2009, but people void the last year of their contract every season. Show him some money, show him some support and he will come here and dominate. That team is about to revolt upon itself. Its in the same boat as Baltimore, a great D who is sick and tired of not having O.

No...no they don't.

People void the last year of their contract when it is "voidable." No team has ever signed a first-round rookie to a four year deal with a voidalble fifth year. I believe Sean Taylor's "seventh" year is voidable.

If you show Tommie Harris money in the off-season, the league will find the Skins' guilty of interference and take away their #1 pick.

[skinny21]

While I can't wait to get a stud d-end to complement carter (sorry daniels), I can at the same time defend the staff a bit. They wanted a stud lineman, this I fully believe, they just didn't feel like they had an opportunity to get one.

My take on why we didn't get one is this...

Landry was a foregone conclusion - he fit a need and was the highest rated defensive player on everyone's board available when we picked. Our free agent money went toward cb depth (obviously a need) and fletcher. our late draft picks were geared toward linebackers since marshall was gone, fletcher isn't a spring chicken and washington isn't invincible. Late round TE made sense - depth for Cooley was needed. And Palmer made sense cause you don't want two old guys as QB depth (and he has a good pedigree).

Add to this the fact that they thought Daniels would be healthy and not doubled, Griffin would be healthy (for how long is a good question though), Golston had valuable pt and was a pretty solid DT, Montgomery was a potential stud that was turning things around, and Carter was good at the end of the year and maybe getting better. Lastly, Marcus was a d-end in college and either he or wilson should be able to fill Clemons' role of a few years ago and alexander, evans, and buzbee would give us very solid depth. Heck, we already have more sacks than last year don't we? 14th in the league after a god-awful year last year. Considering last year and our (possibly) necessitated actions in the offseason I'll take an average or slightly above average pass rush (although if someone shows me stats showing our qb pressures ranking is much worse than our sack ranking I may change my tune a bit).

All in all - of course I want a stud d-lineman and an improved pass rush, and i think the FO feels the same - but they did what they could. If they hadn't done any of the above we'd be talking about how poorly they handled that area of the team. :2cents:

[D'Pablo]

#1 Problem [= Lack of Young Adequately-Sized Pass-Rushing D-Lineman]

They just plain wear down at the end of games. Carter and Griffin are undersized at their respective positions. Daniels is old. Montgomery is actually pretty decent at both playing the run and collapsing the pocket. He'll get better in time.

Conclusion: We need to have a bigger, younger, and deeper *rotation* along the D-Line.

[Smoot Point Really]

I hate to actually use statistics when discussing this topic... HOWEVER...

Through 9 games (NFL.com hasn't updated stats yet):

1) We're currently 14th in the league in sacks generated

2) We play in the NFC East, where sacks are harder to come by than in the AFC West (for instance)

3) We have more sacks so far than the Baltimore Ravens and San Diego Chargers (teams who people on this board praised last year, but also teams who played the Oakland Raiders three times between them).

4) The Giants lead the league in sacks, but have 1 sack a game more than we do (not earth-shattering for the league leader).

5) We have been dropping 7-8 more often than we have been blitzing.

6) When you are winning big in games, you generate more sacks (because teams pass more against you)... When is the last time you saw us winning big in a game?

7) Everyone thought 19 sacks was poor last year? There are currently 3 teams in the league who are on a pace for 16.

8) The Houston Texans added Mario Williams and had fewer sacks the following year... They added Amobi Okoye the following year and are on pace for fewer sacks this year than last. Adding DL 1st round draft picks is not a silver bullet to generating a pass rush.

Basically, the front 7 is again the strongest part of this defensive team. Our pass rush from the front 4 hasn't been spectacular, but its been consistent with most of the rest of the league here... There are some here who like to defend their points of view, regardless of the actual data.

If we add a defensive lineman in the draft, it would be for two years from now (maybe 3)... not for next year. You can't rely on many defensive lineman in the draft in the same way that we've relied on Laron Landry. We do have to get younger at the DE position, but we're not as bad as people want to "manufacture".

[mcarey032]

We Need a PASSRUSH! We do not get any pressure on the passer. It is hard to succeed with no pass rush. WE get absolutly no push from the middle and rairly any from our ends. Granted our defensive backs can play a little better but with the QB having so much time to throw it leads to disaster.

Look at a team like Denver with Champ and Dre Bly...awsome corners , right now they are getting no pass rush and look how teams are throwing on them.

Now a team like NE, they have some average corners, Samuels is good but I really think his pass rush from the middle and the ends helps him out.

We need to look at a bigger force in the middel and an explosive end. Maybe Haynsworth and draft and end.

Go skins...they impressed me last night...and also broke my heart.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I really like Landry but we could have used a pass rush. That was the problem last year was that Sean Taylor was up in run support so much and we got beat over the top. You never want your safety to be the leading tackler on your team, which he was on ours. We need a pass rusher. I am glad that we have Landry, but we need to think about getting a pass rusher in this draft followed by an offensive tackle.