Parents Face up to 10 days in jail for not vaccinating

[Larry]

It is quite humorous to me that it is actually the opposite that your vaccinated kid, who emits the virus from his/her pores,

You mean, vaccines are contageous?. Wow, you better go out and get your kid a vaccine vaccination. After all, wouldn't want him to catch immunity.

[curlinga]

there is no correlation between vaccination and autism, the idea simply has no solid basis. Maybe not everyone will be perfectly unaffected by negative symptoms, but probably 99.9+% of the population, unless you have good reason to believe you are part of that <0.01% then you are being irrational by ignoring the vaccine..

So, parents who have watched their child developmentally regress after receiving shots are being irrational??? If having that experience doesn't give someone the parental right to question the claims of how safe vaccines are, then please explain to me what a "good reason" is.

And to make a definitive claim of "no correlation" and then to use words like "maybe not everyone" and "probably 99.9+%" does not compute. There either is a definite claim or not....you even need to qualify your initial statement...so I say again...clearly more research is needed.

research takes time, what makes you think we haven't done enough.

Of course research takes time...that doesn't mean more shouldn't be done. Until we know what causes autism and how to reverse it's affects, we have NOT done enough!

Amy

[Prosperity]

So, parents who have watched their child developmentally regress after receiving shots are being irrational??? If having that experience doesn't give someone the parental right to question the claims of how safe vaccines are, then please explain to me what a "good reason" is.

And to make a definitive claim of "no correlation" and then to use words like "maybe not everyone" and "probably 99.9+%" does not compute. There either is a definite claim or not....you even need to qualify your initial statement...so I say again...clearly more research is needed.

Of course research takes time...that doesn't mean more shouldn't be done. Until we know what causes autism and how to reverse it's affects, we have NOT done enough!

Amy

Amy, my words make sense if you look at them in another light. There has already been adequate research to prove that autism and vaccination are not related. When people who have been vaccinized show no greater or lesser occurance of autism then that is a safe assertion to make. Yes parents of vaccinized children have children develop autism, but so do parents of children who haven't been vaccinized... experience in one event of linking two variables out of hundreds is not rational...there is just as much evidence to say that parents of children who like the redskins have their children develop autism...neither belief is rational. But one is more dangerous than the other, stopping your daughter from watching redskins games won't leave her susceptible to cervical cancer later on. And while we keep on doing this more research that you want many more women will die of cervical cancer.

[Ken]

And you know this how?

While you're at it hotshot, work up the winning lotto numbers for me?

BTW, how do you think the spread of smallpox,measles,polio got stopped?

Was it immunizing the population or did the government decide we'd suffered enough and quit implanting diseases in the food and water??

Well, because every one of the diseases you mention were in dramatic decline when the "cure" was introduced. Only in countries where we "vaccinate" do these things even exist. Tends to happen when you shoot people full of half dead polio and people's immune systems (compromised by the toxins shot into them through vaccinations) cannott fight off the disease.

You can look all of this stuff up, by all means don't take my word for it. A word of caution however, they won't tell you this on CDC.com or FDA.gov.

[Ken]

are you serious? care to post an evidence?

Yes, very serious. Think about it, you inject people with half-live virus's, you can infect other people. Not all immunizations contain live virus, like tetnus, but most do.

Case in point.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/11/healthscience/polio.php

"This vaccine, invented by Albert Sabin, is easier to give, offers much stronger protection and can beneficially "infect" other family members or neighbors, protecting them too.

But in rare cases, it can mutate into something resembling wild polio virus, which can paralyze or kill. Aylward pointed out that 10 billion doses of oral vaccine had been given in the past 10 years, so such mutations are presumably extremely unusual"

Thoughts?

[curlinga]

Amy, my words make sense if you look at them in another light. There has already been adequate research to prove that autism and vaccination are not related. When people who have been vaccinized show no greater or lesser occurance of autism then that is a safe assertion to make. Yes parents of vaccinized children have children develop autism, but so do parents of children who haven't been vaccinized... experience in one event of linking two variables out of hundreds is not rational...there is just as much evidence to say that parents of children who like the redskins have their children develop autism...neither belief is rational. But one is more dangerous than the other, stopping your daughter from watching redskins games won't leave her susceptible to cervical cancer later on. And while we keep on doing this more research that you want many more women will die of cervical cancer.

I understand what you are saying Liberty. However, I cannot discount what so many parents have reported regarding the effect of vaccines on their children. Nor can I blame them for being leary of a system they feel is flawed.

One of my students' mothers told me about how her typically developing toddler regressed to being nonverbal and nonsocial within a week of receiving his MMR vaccine. Doctors can't say what else could have caused such a dramatic reversal of development. To her, it was the vaccine and if making that link makes her irrational, then so be it. You may not agree with her assessment, but to discount her beliefs is being unfairly judgemental.

I find it interesting that in special education we are required to provide INDIVIDUAL instruction based on each child's needs, but the medical community can say that blanket vaccinations are ok for everyone. We know every drug has it's side-effects and the severity depends on the individual. Why is it so hard to think that vaccines are so different? We know so little about autism and I think it's still too early to take the vaccine theory completely off the table.

I said earlier that I do believe vaccinations are important, and my children are fully vaccinated. However, I cannot judge parents who refuse them based on negative experiences.

Amy

[Ken]

While I think Ken generally goes overboard with the whole conspiracy theory thing, I do feel for some of these parents.

I'm a SLP and I work with children with autism. Several of my students' parents refuse to vaccinate their other children because they believe the vaccines caused their child's autism. CDC and other medical researchers have not found a definite link between vaccines & autism; however, that doesn't mean that vaccinations are safe for everyone.

I heard a doctor explain it this way...some people cannot take penicillian because they have major negative reactions to it. Why is it so far fetched to think that some children will react negatively to vaccinations? More research is clearly needed.

I will be interested to see how the PG county courts/school system deals with the parents in this situation. I do believe in vaccinations (both my boys are up to date on their shots), but I don't expect parents to blindly follow vaccination protocols after seeing their child (or children) regress after receiving the shots.

I guess the question is...does a parents' reservation about vaccines & autism constitute a valid medical reason for a waiver? I think it does, but it will be interesting to see if PG county agrees.

Amy

curlinga,

I appreciate the half-support....lol.

I realize that a lot of posters don't want to publicly agree with me because it may make them look bad in eyes of the es community...lol.

The CDC and "other" medical researchers have absolutely no incentive to find a link. They are paid off by these drug companies to not find an answer. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that injecting mercury (a known TOXIC SUBSTANCE according to the EPA) directly into the bloodstream has a devastating effect on the brain. Injected in concert with large quantities of Alluminum (another KNOWN neuro toxin) and these two cause autism and every form of mental injury. I recently went to my daughters school to be "dad for a day". I was horrified that there were 5 complete classes of fully autistic/mental damaged children in here school. It is a shame.

This didn't just come out of thin air. The immunization schedule is increased signifigantly since I had to take vaccinations. The amount of toxins is increased as well. In the majority of cases of autism, it often occurs around the 18th month vaccination. This seems to be the tipping point where most cannott take the toxins anymore.

One of my engineers, just YESTERDAY, came up to me about his son who he just had vaccinated on Thursday for his 1 year immunizations. He and his wife were petrified that after he got his shot he was pale and running an extremely high fever the whole night and is still night right as of yesterday. I told him that if he cares about his kid, he will put in the reasearch into vaccines and by all means NOT administer the 18th month immunization to his child. These neuro toxins are more sensative to males who don't metabolize these metals as efficiently as females. Needless to say, he agreed with me and said he didn't need to hear me say that, he realized looking at his son, what caused it.

I have a number of other personal stories about friends who have had the children harmed by the use of these vaccines.

Anyone still wondering where SIDS comes from can also look no further than vaccinations. When children die, often hours or a few days from vaccinations, coroners almost NEVER consider the actual vaccinations as a possible cause. They merely diagnose them as SIDS. That is sad.

I'll stop now as no one is going to take me serious anyway.

[Ken]

"CDC and other medical researchers have not found a definite link between vaccines & autism; however, that doesn't mean that vaccinations are safe for everyone."

there is no correlation between vaccination and autism, the idea simply has no solid basis. Maybe not everyone will be perfectly unaffected by negative symptoms, but probably 99.9+% of the population, unless you have good reason to believe you are part of that <0.01% then you are being irrational by ignoring the vaccine.

research takes time, what makes you think we haven't done enough.

So there it is, it is settled. The CDC knows that there IS NO WAY neuro toxins could cause a neurological disorder. :doh:

Please wake up...use your critical thinking.

[Ken]

Amy, my words make sense if you look at them in another light. There has already been adequate research to prove that autism and vaccination are not related. When people who have been vaccinized show no greater or lesser occurance of autism then that is a safe assertion to make. Yes parents of vaccinized children have children develop autism, but so do parents of children who haven't been vaccinized... experience in one event of linking two variables out of hundreds is not rational...there is just as much evidence to say that parents of children who like the redskins have their children develop autism...neither belief is rational. But one is more dangerous than the other, stopping your daughter from watching redskins games won't leave her susceptible to cervical cancer later on. And while we keep on doing this more research that you want many more women will die of cervical cancer.

Sorry,

Have not heard of autistic children who have NOT been vaccinized.

The clearest example of that is the AMISH who have NO cases of austism in their children who do NOT vaccinate. The only two cases of autism in Amish children in PA came from an Amish community in Europe that DID vaccinate.

You can look that up if you would like.

Hint: U won't find that on the CDC site.....

[curlinga]

curlinga,

I appreciate the half-support....lol.

I realize that a lot of posters don't want to publicly agree with me because it may make them look bad in eyes of the es community...lol.

Truth is, Ken...I do think most of your theories are far fetched,but the bigger issue I have is you have them about EVERYTHING. I would be more willing to listen if everything wasn't a bigdarkevilgovernmentconspiracy.

Regarding the vaccine/autism debate...I'm simply stating my views...and they happen to...sort of...agree with yours. :cool:

Amy

[Ken]

Truth is, Ken...I do think most of your theories are far fetched,but the bigger issue I have is you have them about EVERYTHING. I would be more willing to listen if everything wasn't a bigdarkevilgovernmentconspiracy.

Regarding the vaccine/autism debate...I'm simply stating my views...and they happen to...sort of...agree with yours. :cool:

Amy

I wish I didn't have to be that way. I really do.

The fact is, government historically has been evil and against the people. This one is no different.

Also, the fact that Bush's and Congress's approval ratings are at a historical low, indicate I am not alone in my feelings.

[Ken]

Uh, my copy of the 4th amendment seems to be missing the part that mentions the right to send disease carriers into a room where society forces other people to send their children.

Well, don't listen to me, listen to the Assosiation of American Surgeons and Physicians.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,226269.shtml

ES is really like the twillight zone to me.... :laugh:

[Zguy28]

I wonder how long before the flu shot is mandatory?

[Ken]

I wonder how long before the flu shot is mandatory?

They are certainly pushing to make it mandatory.

They have even come up with Flumist for toddlers 6 months and up. This gets the toxins right to the brain, no sense in messing around with the bloodstream.....

I have never had a flu shot, nor will i ever take one. It is the flue, if your not elderly, it is a non-issue. i just don't understand the the need for it.

The sad part is, the Flu shot contains higher levels of thermerisol and it was never taken out of it.

[Jumbo]

ES is really like the twillight zone to me.... :laugh:

This is like Hannibal Lector watching MMA and criticizing all the violence.

[zoony]

This is like Hannibal Lector watching MMA and criticizing all the violence.

:laugh:

or...

Howard Stern criticizing Imus for not being culturally sensitive

This is fun, I bet we could come up with an entire list

[Jumbo]

Emmit Smith casting aspersions on Sterling Sharpe's elocution.

[TriangleSkinsFan]

I wanted to let this go but he brought it up again....so here goes.....

Link to an explanation of the the most dangerous vaccine known to man. and by the way CBS news and Dan Rather may not be doctors but they have more credibility than you and your unsupported rantings. The CBS news organization isn't some unsubstantiated wiki

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002...ain532706.shtml

It states several things...among them are

"But that protection has a price. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man." oooh sounds nasty

and

"But smallpox was, or is, a terrible, virulent disease. It kills one out of every three of its victims. There is no cure." So If I get smallpox I have a 33.33% chance of dying, doesn't sound like good odds.

Furthermore

"We know if we immunize a million people, that there will be 15 people that will suffer severe, permanent adverse outcomes and one person who may die from the vaccine,"

So, If I take the vaccine I actually have a one in a million chance of maybe dying. Those odds sound better than a one in three chance. but if I lean in your direction and count the 15 people who will suffer severe and adverse outcomes then if I take the vaccine I have a 0.000015 % chance of those severe and adverse outcomes. Still, most of us would take those odds anyday vs the alternative possibilities.

And also did you notice that I gave some support to my argument, it took me and my non typing ass a whopping 2 minutes to google it. I used the search terms "dangerous vaccines". This popped up as item #3

A far cry from your "I'm not doing everything for everybody" spiel when your position is the one that requires some support....

Ken, your argument lacks any evidence or support. The fact is we are much safer taking the most dangerous vaccine there is vs avoiding the "poison" vaccine and risking the disease.

__________________

[TriangleSkinsFan]

And by the way Tequila is classified as a nuerotoxin too but many of us rather enjoy the effect.

[Ken]

What is hillarious is the prosecutor who is going after these parents, admits on a national radio interview that he uses the waiver and would not give his kids the Hep B vaccine.

Thought that was kinda funny.

Reminds me of when the Anthrax "attack" occured and president Bush told all health professionals to get the flu shot and virtually none of them would.

[PeterMP]

Sorry,

Have not heard of autistic children who have NOT been vaccinized.

The clearest example of that is the AMISH who have NO cases of austism in their children who do NOT vaccinate. The only two cases of autism in Amish children in PA came from an Amish community in Europe that DID vaccinate.

You can look that up if you would like.

Hint: U won't find that on the CDC site.....

Or maybe it is any number of other things that the Amish DON'T. Like not watch tv or the age at which they have their children. There is no link between autism and vaccines. There is an appearant link between the age of the father and the liklihood of autism.

Ken your over all point is just ridiculious. Big Pharma is putting things in vaccines to make people sick. Why? To make money? Why not just not make vaccines, let the people get sick, and then make money off of the illness you've created the vaccine (that you don't have to waste your time and money making)to prevent? A little simple logic, and this argument goes right out the window. There is no good reason for Big Pharma to make things to make you sick, when all they'd have to do is to make things that treat the illness instead of preventing it in the first place.

Oh and by the way this was in the other thread, but antibodies tend to be specific. That means an organism will make antibodies that recongize whatever they have been exposed to. So if you are exposed to rabbit proteins, you'll have antibodies to the proteins you were exposed to and not "EVERYTHING" else so unless you are drinking rabbit blood, it isn't to much of an issue.

[Ken]

Or maybe it is any number of other things that the Amish DON'T. Like not watch tv or the age at which they have their children. There is no link between autism and vaccines. There is an appearant link between the age of the father and the liklihood of autism.

Ken your over all point is just ridiculious. Big Pharma is putting things in vaccines to make people sick. Why? To make money? Why not just not make vaccines, let the people get sick, and then make money off of the illness you've created the vaccine (that you don't have to waste your time and money making)to prevent? A little simple logic, and this argument goes right out the window. There is no good reason for Big Pharma to make things to make you sick, when all they'd have to do is to make things that treat the illness instead of preventing it in the first place.

Oh and by the way this was in the other thread, but antibodies tend to be specific. That means an organism will make antibodies that recongize whatever they have been exposed to. So if you are exposed to rabbit proteins, you'll have antibodies to the proteins you were exposed to and not "EVERYTHING" else so unless you are drinking rabbit blood, it isn't to much of an issue.

Your simple logic is off..

Big Pharma makes millions off of vaccines. They will make billions when they mandate more vaccinations.

Now, the money is only one angle, the angle I thought people could understand. I guess not.

I also understand how antibodies work. Not sure what your saying, but I think your trying to link me saying that large chunks of undigested protein have a severe negative affect on health. Mostly in the form of allergies.

At this point, I'm just astounded that everyone is ok with what is going on. I've posted plenty of really messed up things about vaccinations and all anyone can do is tell me i'm wrong because they have better hypotheticals. Mine are actual facts, I don't care about the logic your throwing at me.

What I am saying goes against everything that you are told, i understand this intrisically well because I was once blind to these facts. All I ask is for people to look into what i am saying and not to look into through government/corporate sites or government/corporate funded studies.

[PeterMP]

Your simple logic is off..

Big Pharma makes millions off of vaccines. They will make billions when they mandate more vaccinations.

Now, the money is only one angle, the angle I thought people could understand. I guess not.

Real simple Ken under which situation to you make more money:

1. Somebody buys something once and never buys any more product from you.

2. A person has to buy product from you multiple times.

Look at HIV. Do you think big Pharma is making more money off of HIV w/ people having to buy the drug ****tails for the rest of their life or if there was an HIV vaccine? The answer is obvious.

Yes, they make a bunch of money off of vaccines, but they would make more money if there were no vaccines and people actually get sick and then had to buy a ****tail of medicines to get better and/or treat their symptoms especially if there is a good chance they will catch the illness multiple times or have at over an extended period of time.

What are the other angles?

[The_cavalierman]

Every City has a slush fund of some sort...

If you are gonna require that all kids go to school then the slush/emergency fund is a perfect remedy for those parents that honestly cannot afford vaccinations.

For parents that make enough money and are just being dumb then this penalty makes sense.

[The_cavalierman]

Pharmaceutical companies should be made to do school vaccinations for free in return for more tax breaks.

That would likely solve the problem...It's not like these companies are hurting for cash.