Why "Old School" Redskin Football WILL NOT WORK TODAY!!!

[LightenupSandyBaby]

Hey Fellow Redskin Fans,

I had a premonition the other day and I wanted to share my thoughts with you. I truly believe that Gibbs philosophy of conservative ball control football can work with the proper personnel. The problem is that the personnel doesn't exist in today's world of football. If you recall from the mid 80's up to 1991...we had what i call "the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE". An offensive line that Out-Weighed defensive fronts by at least 20-30 lbs. a person. If I recall right we were the first TEAM to ever have 300 lb. lineman from right tackle to left tackle. This was unheard of, and teams would fear "Any Given Sunday at RFK Stadium against the HOGS". Every person in the entire stadium would know that Riggins-Rogers- Riggs-or Byner was going to run up the left side at least 20 times in a game. I remember games where we would run out 1/2 of the the fourth quarter with one drive. Down by down we would earned 3.5 yards per play. Play after play we would wear out the defense. It seemed like it would always take 3 downs for the first down. Half the time the refs would bring out the chains to measure. one thing was for sure if our offense had to KILL THE CLOCK it was always automatic!!!

Like I said above....The Problem is not poor coaching. THE PROBLEM IS THAT A 375 lb. ATHLETIC LINEMAN DOES NOT EXIST IN SPORTS TODAY.

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

[CGSKINS]

Hey Fellow Redskin Fans,

I had a premonition the other day and I wanted to share my thoughts with you. I truly believe that Gibbs philosophy of conservative ball control football can work with the proper personnel. The problem is that the personnel doesn't exist in today's world of football. If you recall from the mid 80's up to 1991...we had what i call "the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE". An offensive line that Out-Weighed defensive fronts by at least 20-30 lbs. a person. If I recall right we were the first TEAM to ever have 300 lb. lineman from right tackle to left tackle. This was unheard of, and teams would fear "Any Given Sunday at RFK Stadium against the HOGS". Every person in the entire stadium would know that Riggins-Rogers- Riggs-or Byner was going to run up the left side at least 20 times in a game. I remember games where we would run out 1/2 of the the fourth quarter with one drive. Down by down we would earned 3.5 yards per play. Play after play we would wear out the defense. It seemed like it would always take 3 downs for the first down. Half the time the refs would bring out the chains to measure. one thing was for sure if our offense had to KILL THE CLOCK it was always automatic!!!

Like I said above....The Problem is not poor coaching. THE PROBLEM IS THAT A 375 lb. ATHLETIC LINEMAN DOES NOT EXIST IN SPORTS TODAY.

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

:snore:

[SkinFan63]

Hey Fellow Redskin Fans,

I had a premonition the other day and I wanted to share my thoughts with you. I truly believe that Gibbs philosophy of conservative ball control football can work with the proper personnel. The problem is that the personnel doesn't exist in today's world of football. If you recall from the mid 80's up to 1991...we had what i call "the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE". An offensive line that Out-Weighed defensive fronts by at least 20-30 lbs. a person. If I recall right we were the first TEAM to ever have 300 lb. lineman from right tackle to left tackle. This was unheard of, and teams would fear "Any Given Sunday at RFK Stadium against the HOGS". Every person in the entire stadium would know that Riggins-Rogers- Riggs-or Byner was going to run up the left side at least 20 times in a game. I remember games where we would run out 1/2 of the the fourth quarter with one drive. Down by down we would earned 3.5 yards per play. Play after play we would wear out the defense. It seemed like it would always take 3 downs for the first down. Half the time the refs would bring out the chains to measure. one thing was for sure if our offense had to KILL THE CLOCK it was always automatic!!!

Like I said above....The Problem is not poor coaching. THE PROBLEM IS THAT A 375 lb. ATHLETIC LINEMAN DOES NOT EXIST IN SPORTS TODAY.

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

Whether or not your take on why it won't work is valid or not, the statement is dead on accurate. Gibb's game plan is old-school, old fashioned and unfortunately for us, outdated. More and more teams are using an attack offense like the Cowpies and the Patriots, and leaving us in the ancient dust.

WE need to attack. We need to as Patten once said.....spill their blood, shoot them in the belly. We need to go after our opponents for blood. We need an attitude adjustment. We need to start kixcking ass instead of wollowing by.

I wonder if wollowing is a word...........

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

I wonder if wollowing is a word...........

No but wallowing is....

I see what you are saying, makes sense.

Actually a lot of sense.

Things change over the years but I don't think gibbs is too stupid to realize it. I still wish we hadn't brought Saunders on board, it set this team back 2 years

[Redskins4ever]

But stil you have to run the football nowadays. Conservative is running the football and grinding it out when you have the lead. Gibbs should have had the offense move the ball more efficiently and effectively during the Giants game before we started to attempt to control the clock. Back in the days, Gibbs would call the plays that would score us points. Those measure of points would result in how the old Redskins controlled the game from that point on.

The problem now in 2007 is we are not getting big enough leads when we choose to be conservative. Nowadays the games are too close for comfort when we start being conservative.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Hey Fellow Redskin Fans,

I had a premonition the other day and I wanted to share my thoughts with you. I truly believe that Gibbs philosophy of conservative ball control football can work with the proper personnel. The problem is that the personnel doesn't exist in today's world of football. If you recall from the mid 80's up to 1991...we had what i call "the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE". An offensive line that Out-Weighed defensive fronts by at least 20-30 lbs. a person. If I recall right we were the first TEAM to ever have 300 lb. lineman from right tackle to left tackle. This was unheard of, and teams would fear "Any Given Sunday at RFK Stadium against the HOGS". Every person in the entire stadium would know that Riggins-Rogers- Riggs-or Byner was going to run up the left side at least 20 times in a game. I remember games where we would run out 1/2 of the the fourth quarter with one drive. Down by down we would earned 3.5 yards per play. Play after play we would wear out the defense. It seemed like it would always take 3 downs for the first down. Half the time the refs would bring out the chains to measure. one thing was for sure if our offense had to KILL THE CLOCK it was always automatic!!!

Like I said above....The Problem is not poor coaching. THE PROBLEM IS THAT A 375 lb. ATHLETIC LINEMAN DOES NOT EXIST IN SPORTS TODAY.

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck

You're right. It doesn't work anymore. That's why I've said that the game has changed but Gibbs has not. To me, that's still a coaching problem. I don't want to get crushed for this, but Gibbs refusing to change his stripes to adapt to the current NFL is pretty much the same as Spurrier going down with the Fun 'n Gun...

If what you're doing isn't working, you adapt. If you don't, you're hurting your team and open yourself up for someone to blame your coaching.

[MONTEY]

Then this season is lost. Gibbs will not change that conservative philosophy to save his life.

[FunBunch7]

I htinkk the most over used stat in football is one that you see like this:

"When "insert player" runs for 25 times or more, "insert team" wins 97% of the time."

It is actually just the opposite...

"When "insert team" is WINNING, they GET to run the ball for 25 times.

[REEGSKINS]

I htinkk the most over used stat in football is one that you see like this:

"When "insert player" runs for 25 times or more, "insert team" wins 97% of the time."

It is actually just the opposite...

"When "insert team" is WINNING, they GET to run the ball for 25 times.

i think you are sooooo right. i hate when i hear people say that. gibbs always talks about the run pass ratio. so overrated.

[LightenupSandyBaby]

The problem now in 2007 is we are not getting big enough leads when we choose to be conservative. Nowadays the games are too close for comfort when we start being conservative.

You are right that we need a big enough lead before we start to be conservative. BUT like I said we don't have the personnel to GRIND OUT the Clock....with a Big Lead or Small Lead. the Beauty of Old School Redskins Football was that our Offensive Line dictated the entire game. When we needed a first down you bet your ass we got it!!!

[LightenupSandyBaby]

Then this season is lost. Gibbs will not change that conservative philosophy to save his life.

Well if you are expecting a trip to the Super Bowl......the season is lost. If you are more realistic and are thinking of a wild card and hoping to HOST the game...the season is not lost. it's ALL relative to your expectations.

Gibbs will adapt with what he has. Right now we don't have alot going for us. Sean Taylor and Carlos Rogers Sidelined. No real standout Wide receiver playing. Biggest problem no depth in the Offensive line. Plus no Randy Thomas.

I'm not to sure what the game plan is, but he will make sure he sets up what is best for us to WIN. Whether the players can execute it is another question.

[ThomasRoane]

Yeah, and how did John Elway win his SuperBowl? Yeah, that's right ... a running game -- Terrell Davis. How did the steelers win theirs? Running by Willie Parker set it all up.

But you want a more recent example eh? How bout last year. Boy that Peyton Manning lit it up in the Super Bowl eh! His numbers were ranked 31st in passing for all Superbowls. He completed 25 passes in 38 Attempts for 238 and 1 TD and 1 Int.

Yet they rushed FORTY-TWO times for 191 Yards and a TD. Keeping the Bears offense off the field and setting up field goals.

What you and many people fail to comprehend is that the passing game ALWAYS looks great in the beginning of the year. When the playoffs begin, those piss-ant illegal contact calls are barely heard from. Defenses get to be more physical as Refs don't want to be accused of being bigger than the game. Also, receivers don't get those easy releases like they used to. And by that time, DCs have figured out your passing schemes. So if you can't bite down on your mouth piece and run people over when needed, you can expect a quick exit.

[Peregrine]

The key to coaching in the NFL is the ability to adapt. Things change. 5 years from now there will be new plays, new philosophies, and new ways of doing things. You have to be at the top of the curve. You see teams now moving to the 3-4. You see new trick plays developed. NFL coaches have seen old school plays and gameplans a thousand times. It might work the first 100, but after that, you have spent enough time examining it to find a weakness and exploit it. You just cant keep doing the same thing in the NFL. Yes, it would be nice and easy if that were true, but why in the world would a team pay a coach 2 mill a year to do the same thing any average fan could do, namely, the same thing youve seen a thousand times. Its innovators who are succesful. Gibbs first tenure was one of innovation. The Pats are innovators.

Coaches that follow the curve can be succesful, but they are never great, and coaches that dont even acknowledge a curve certainly arent going to be succesful. No play is perfect, and as such, every play must have a weakness(otherwise youd just run it 60 straight plays), and if it has a weakness, with enough time it can eventually be discovered.

[LightenupSandyBaby]

The key to coaching in the NFL is the ability to adapt. Things change. 5 years from now there will be new plays, new philosophies, and new ways of doing things. You have to be at the top of the curve. You see teams now moving to the 3-4. You see new trick plays developed. NFL coaches have seen old school plays and gameplans a thousand times. It might work the first 100, but after that, you have spent enough time examining it to find a weakness and exploit it. You just cant keep doing the same thing in the NFL. Yes, it would be nice and easy if that were true, but why in the world would a team pay a coach 2 mill a year to do the same thing any average fan could do, namely, the same thing youve seen a thousand times. Its innovators who are succesful. Gibbs first tenure was one of innovation. The Pats are innovators.

Coaches that follow the curve can be succesful, but they are never great, and coaches that dont even acknowledge a curve certainly arent going to be succesful. No play is perfect, and as such, every play must have a weakness(otherwise youd just run it 60 straight plays), and if it has a weakness, with enough time it can eventually be discovered.

Yada yada yada.....YES adapting to today's style of Football is the same thing as saying "THE GRASS IS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE". Yes you are absolutely right that the patriots and Cowpukes have found a new way to win games. But what you fail to realize is that almost any style of Football can WIN GAMES.......If you CAN EXECUTE THE PLAYS EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! Believe me whether you PASS or RUN you need to CONTROL THE CLOCK. Short West Coast Style passes HAVE THE SAME RESULTS as Joe Gibbs RUN UP THE GUT plays when EXECUTED PROPERLY. The problem isn't what style football we play...THE PROBLEM IS EXECUTING IT EVERY TIME. The OLD SCHOOL REDSKINS did the most important thing. THEY PLAYED EVERY DOWN LIKE IT WAS THEIR LAST DOWN. Our Problem is that we don't have 376 lb. Lineman to control the line of scrimmage.

[LightenupSandyBaby]

Yeah, and how did John Elway win his SuperBowl? Yeah, that's right ... a running game -- Terrell Davis. How did the steelers win theirs? Running by Willie Parker set it all up.

But you want a more recent example eh? How bout last year. Boy that Peyton Manning lit it up in the Super Bowl eh! His numbers were ranked 31st in passing for all Superbowls. He completed 25 passes in 38 Attempts for 238 and 1 TD and 1 Int.

Yet they rushed FORTY-TWO times for 191 Yards and a TD. Keeping the Bears offense off the field and setting up field goals.

What you and many people fail to comprehend is that the passing game ALWAYS looks great in the beginning of the year. When the playoffs begin, those piss-ant illegal contact calls are barely heard from. Defenses get to be more physical as Refs don't want to be accused of being bigger than the game. Also, receivers don't get those easy releases like they used to. And by that time, DCs have figured out your passing schemes. So if you can't bite down on your mouth piece and run people over when needed, you can expect a quick exit.

I Like your Passion!!!

[SkinsFan48]

It could work but as many mention you dont have 320+ lbs lineman running around.

[pjfootballer]

Yeah, and how did John Elway win his SuperBowl? Yeah, that's right ... a running game -- Terrell Davis. How did the steelers win theirs? Running by Willie Parker set it all up.

But you want a more recent example eh? How bout last year. Boy that Peyton Manning lit it up in the Super Bowl eh! His numbers were ranked 31st in passing for all Superbowls. He completed 25 passes in 38 Attempts for 238 and 1 TD and 1 Int.

Yet they rushed FORTY-TWO times for 191 Yards and a TD. Keeping the Bears offense off the field and setting up field goals.

What you and many people fail to comprehend is that the passing game ALWAYS looks great in the beginning of the year. When the playoffs begin, those piss-ant illegal contact calls are barely heard from. Defenses get to be more physical as Refs don't want to be accused of being bigger than the game. Also, receivers don't get those easy releases like they used to. And by that time, DCs have figured out your passing schemes. So if you can't bite down on your mouth piece and run people over when needed, you can expect a quick exit.

I agree with what you're saying and if step 1 is to be a passing team in the regular season and step 2 is a running team in the playoffs, then we try to get to step 2 without completing step 1.

[doom44]

I think its pretty dam funny that Run & shoot pass happy is so in style today and that people think it is so innovative and fresh. Its not.. The answer is time of possesion.

Just like Hair Bands....Smashmouth running teams will be back.

Run the ball consistantly...string up long drives and leave Romo sits to pee and TO (the cancer) on the sidelines to watch. Joe knows what he's doing...The players have to go out and make it happen.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It's a passing league now. Teams pass to establish the run.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yeah, and how did John Elway win his SuperBowl? Yeah, that's right ... a running game -- Terrell Davis. How did the steelers win theirs? Running by Willie Parker set it all up.

Actually, the Steelers finally broke through in the playoffs because Roethlisberger was hot as a pistol in the playoffs (at least prior to the Super Bowl).

His passer ratings in the 2005 playoffs were:

148.7

95.3

124.9

Compare to his numbers in 2004:

57.8

78.1

Or Tommy Maddox in 2002:

89.5

77.9

Or Kordell Stewart in 2001:

72.9

45.2

Or Kordell Stewart in 1997:

44.3

41.6

[LightenupSandyBaby]

I think its pretty dam funny that Run & shoot pass happy is so in style today and that people think it is so innovative and fresh. Its not.. The answer is time of possesion.

Just like Hair Bands....Smashmouth running teams will be back.

Run the ball consistantly...string up long drives and leave Romo sits to pee and TO (the cancer) on the sidelines to watch. Joe knows what he's doing...The players have to go out and make it happen.

Thank You... a fellow fan who truly remembers the "Glory Years"!!

I just hope our O-Line is good enough to control the line of scrimmage. :dallasuck :dallasuck

[LightenupSandyBaby]

Actually' date=' the Steelers finally broke through in the playoffs because Roethlisberger was hot as a pistol in the playoffs (at least prior to the Super Bowl).

His passer ratings in the 2005 playoffs were:

148.7

95.3

124.9

Compare to his numbers in 2004:

57.8

78.1

Or Tommy Maddox in 2002:

89.5

77.9

Or Kordell Stewart in 2001:

72.9

45.2

Or Kordell Stewart in 1997:

44.3

41.6[/quote']

YES he was hot as a pistol!!! but I'm sure his completed passes were a lot of play action plays to Hines Ward. Which was set up by Willie Parker and Jerome Bettis running the ball!!!

[LightenupSandyBaby]

It's a passing league now. Teams pass to establish the run.

It's not a passing league.....It's only a FAD that works!! Simply because The GREAT teams this year have the personnel to consistently do it! plus these teams have depth at key positions and haven't had a catastrophic injury to key players yet.

If Romo sits to pee or Brady goes down for the year...are they the same team? :dallasuck :dallasuck

[SkinFan63]

Why old school won't work?..........pretty much as they just said on NFL network, "We're still playing 80's football and everybody knows how to beat it."

[LightenupSandyBaby]

Why old school won't work?..........pretty much as they just said on NFL network, "We're still playing 80's football and everybody knows how to beat it."

if we had Dominant Offensive Lineman like we did in the past & executed our run blocks......YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS IT WOULD WORK. Like in the 80's...Everybody knew what we were going to do-----but NOBODY COULD STOP IT!!!