What Has No/Old Balls and Coaches the Redskins? (Merged)

[RonJeremy]

Your exception has been duly noted. It takes a lot to get a thread going on the board these days. In any event, it has generated some interesting discussion/venting, and that was the whole point. So, I'm not apologizing if it offended your delicate sensibilities. You have to realize that a poster with the name "Ron Jeremy" taking offense to anything is a little upsurd.

Though I am more liberal than most I do draw the line when it comes to HOF Coach's testicles.

If your reason for the thread title is to distinguish yourself from the other Gibbs hate threads...then guess what...you won the "internets" prize for the day at the expense of degrading a 3 time SuperBowl and Hof Coach....Congrat's! :applause:

This is my last post in this thread.

[iheartskins]

My season is OVER. I have cried and I am feeling sad. I have nothing left to look forward to this season....and I now just go into the job day after day admiring the Cowboys and N.E. fans, wishing that somehow years ago I had made a different decision on which team to sell my soul to and give my heart to.

It's about being a winner for most of us. Most of us don't make $80,000 plus a year and have a beautiful home with a pretty wife and so many of us are living from paycheck to paycheck and we feel like it would be nice to have something in our lives that proves we are a WINNER. So, we latch onto the Skins and root and holler to show everyone that we are part of something better than our paycheck to paycheck lives.

But when we are wrong...and we are let down..and we are finally faced with the reality that we are losers because we have chosen to latch onto a worthless franchise of a team that continues to lose, continues to be dominated by teams, and continues to be overwhelmed even by other losers...then the reality sinks in and we are hurting deeper and harder than some of you can ever realize. Because we are actually the ones who are being dominated and told that we can't do it. Unfortunately, we have no control over any of the teams decisions, even when we know we are right. That is always up to someone else...and that would be the people who are letting us down.

So now I will try to block out the feelings I have, try to deal with the pain I am feeling, accept the comments and insults from the Eagles, Giants, and Cowboys fans who I work with....and I will suffer in silence until next spring when the number 1 pick in the draft and free agency once again give me some false hope.

With all due respect, might be time to draw meaning from something other than the Redskins James.

[skins4eva]

My season is OVER. I have cried and I am feeling sad. I have nothing left to look forward to this season....and I now just go into the job day after day admiring the Cowboys and N.E. fans, wishing that somehow years ago I had made a different decision on which team to sell my soul to and give my heart to.

It's about being a winner for most of us. Most of us don't make $80,000 plus a year and have a beautiful home with a pretty wife and so many of us are living from paycheck to paycheck and we feel like it would be nice to have something in our lives that proves we are a WINNER. So, we latch onto the Skins and root and holler to show everyone that we are part of something better than our paycheck to paycheck lives.

But when we are wrong...and we are let down..and we are finally faced with the reality that we are losers because we have chosen to latch onto a worthless franchise of a team that continues to lose, continues to be dominated by teams, and continues to be overwhelmed even by other losers...then the reality sinks in and we are hurting deeper and harder than some of you can ever realize. Because we are actually the ones who are being dominated and told that we can't do it. Unfortunately, we have no control over any of the teams decisions, even when we know we are right. That is always up to someone else...and that would be the people who are letting us down.

So now I will try to block out the feelings I have, try to deal with the pain I am feeling, accept the comments and insults from the Eagles, Giants, and Cowboys fans who I work with....and I will suffer in silence until next spring when the number 1 pick in the draft and free agency once again give me some false hope.

1991 seams like a long time ago. We're stuck in a cycle of perpetual mediocrity because we refuse to build this team from the foundation up. We constantly plug holes, and when those holes are fixed, a new one opens up. We are rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic. This franchise needs to commit itself to patience and take the necessary steps to develop a culture of winning. Gibbs needs to look at himself and ask if he is doing all he can to put this team in a position to win, both during the week and on game days. If the answer is no, he should retire. If he thinks he can turn it around, then get going. But, don't give us the same crap every week in every press conference and insult our intelligence. Show us something, anything to prove to us that you have a killer instinct or are in the process of developing one. Go for the jugular in each and every game from now on.

[skins4eva]

Though I am more liberal than most I do draw the line when it comes to HOF Coach's testicles.

If your reason for the thread title is to distinguish yourself from the other Gibbs hate threads...then guess what...you won the "internets" prize for the day at the expense of degrading a 3 time SuperBowl and Hof Coach....Congrat's! :applause:

This is my last post in this thread.

Have a nice day

[TLusby]

We are still 5-4 and we have more than the normal amount of injuries to starters. Your 27 years of age clearly did not witness this man in his greatness and I can tell you that he knows more about football than this entire board. Campbell blew one of the time outs on a rookie mistake on first down. Spread offenses do not win games (see Spurrier) but rather the battle in the trenches. We are losing some of those battles and Gibbs will focus on improving those areas with the talent that he able to field. It might not be a playoff year but we are still competitive and improving. A victory in Dallas would get this team pumped. It can be done!

[hotsoss834]

i feel like even if gibbs coached the skins for another 20 years without winning a superbowl...these people would still be clinging to Gibbs I and giving him all the props, saying "remember when he won all those super bowls". the fact is that there is no way that gibbs has a chance at winning another super bowl with teams like indy (should have won last night), ne, and dallas out there who can score with their eyes closed and we cant score with a first and goal from the 1.

[skins4eva]

neither did I.

again....he has turned things around and deserves credit for that.

yes...after 4 seasons...he may need to step aside just like Parcells. but there are respectful ways of suggesting what we all know to be the next step. oh....the OP had no follow-on plan...just another "moveon.joe" post....

Is Joe Gibbs reading these posts? Are his feelings really going to be hurt by this? He's busy gameplanning for Dallas, I promise you that. When I criticize/joke about Gibbs, it's not a reflection on you, ok? Some of you act like making fun of Gibbs is the worst possible sin. And yet, I'm sure many of you have said much worse things about George Bush and Hillary Clinton, and their only job is running the free-world. Just makes no sense to me why people get so up in arms when Gibbs is called out for terrible in-game decision making and gutless playcalling.

[hotsoss834]

We are still 5-4 and we have more than the normal amount of injuries to starters. Your 27 years of age clearly did not witness this man in his greatness and I can tell you that he knows more about football than this entire board. Campbell blew one of the time outs on a rookie mistake on first down. Spread offenses do not win games (see Spurrier) but rather the battle in the trenches. We are losing some of those battles and Gibbs will focus on improving those areas with the talent that he able to field. It might not be a playoff year but we are still competitive and improving. A victory in Dallas would get this team pumped. It can be done!

we are winning the battle in the trenches...clinton is running over people, especially in the last 2 games (losses). and if he knows so much about football, where is the genius playcalling?

[skins4eva]

We are still 5-4 and we have more than the normal amount of injuries to starters. Your 27 years of age clearly did not witness this man in his greatness and I can tell you that he knows more about football than this entire board. Campbell blew one of the time outs on a rookie mistake on first down. Spread offenses do not win games (see Spurrier) but rather the battle in the trenches. We are losing some of those battles and Gibbs will focus on improving those areas with the talent that he able to field. It might not be a playoff year but we are still competitive and improving. A victory in Dallas would get this team pumped. It can be done!

But, you need the ability to utilize the spread offense--see Indy, NE, Dallas. Sorry, but that's the modern NFL. The tight formation isn't nearly as effective because the guys in the trenches are closer in size than they were when the Hogs were bigger than everyone. No question that football is all about the offensive and defensive lines.

That's why, near the goaline, in the jumbo packages with an injured O-line and a center who is very good but undersized, I have trouble understanding why we run Portis up the middle like he was Riggins and it was 1983. Just a little creativity down in the redzone--how about running out of the 4 wide receiver set down there? How about calling what NE and England call all the time--the QB draw out of the 5-wide receiver set near the goal line....Spread the defense out a little. Not only do we not spread them out, we call exactly what they expect and it does not work.

[quettefan]

the answer here is quite simple.

66 year old men are not likely to change their approach or take any deviations.

like it or not, MOST people get more conservative as they get older and tend to rely on what they have been successful doing in the past.

Don't expect any renaissance here from Gibbs, Bugel, Breaux, etc.

These guys are still stuck in 1991.

Gregg Williams is the only member of the staff who is likely to make changes, but is now hamstrung because of the offense's inability to score any points.

He is playing the cover 2 to prevent teams from scoring quickly on the Redskins, knowing the strain on the offense of trying to come from behind is too much for this group.

after reading the OP and lots of the replies....

I feel the love!! ;-)

[skins4eva]

after reading the OP and lots of the replies....

I feel the love!! ;-)

I'm still in absolute shock that we lost that game yesterday. That's not the kind of loss that we will easily recover from. That's twice this season that we've failed to put a division opponent away at home and let them come back and beat us in the 4th quarter.

In the Giants game, we had the brilliant idea to run Betts (who is absolutely miserable this season) on 4th down at the goal line.

[SkinsFanAnt]

Gibbs would be a good GM but you're right. He's gtg. That was aboslutely pathetic yesterday. The sad thing is most of us saw it coming a light year away. I knew when Westbrook caught that ball the game was over. Get him and Williams outta here and bring in some young blood who will be willing to open it up (like Jason Garrett...)

[ECU-ALUM]

I hate to do this but I have got one question....would Gibbs II (not knowing if it would've worked or not) have gone for it on 4th & 1 with Riggo in Super Bowl 17?

After seeing what has been going on this year with the "prevent offense" and questionable playcalling I just have to wonder if he would?

[Shadowplay]

This is a great thread.

While I have some issues with the smugness of the OP's tone, the underlying meaning is dead on. While I can't speak for everyone, I'm certain that most fans saw the dissaray going on at Redskin Park before Gibbs came and assumed that his first order of business would be to clean up the in house business and establish a "Redskin Way" of doing things. Instead, he just bought into what Snyder was selling him, kept Vinny on, neglected the draft, spent through the roof for questionable free agents, was resistant to upgrade his offense to anything closely resembling football in the NFL in this decade, and failed to turn this team into anything resembling a hungry group of players.

It's fair to ask the question of does this guy still deserve to be here? Nothing much has changed since the day he came here...there have been blips that would suggest a turn around is on the horizon but it hasn't appeared yet and most likely WON'T under the current regime.

[skins4eva]

This is a great thread.

While I have some issues with the smugness of the OP's tone, the underlying meaning is dead on. While I can't speak for everyone, I'm certain that most fans saw the dissaray going on at Redskin Park before Gibbs came and assumed that his first order of business would be to clean up the in house business and establish a "Redskin Way" of doing things. Instead, he just bought into what Snyder was selling him, kept Vinny on, neglected the draft, spent through the roof for questionable free agents, was resistant to upgrade his offense to anything closely resembling football in the NFL in this decade, and failed to turn this team into anything resembling a hungry group of players.

It's fair to ask the question of does this guy still deserve to be here? Nothing much has changed since the day he came here...there have been blips that would suggest a turn around is on the horizon but it hasn't appeared yet and most likely WON'T under the current regime.

Gibbs had/has too much faith in Synder as an owner. Oddly enough, I guy like Gibbs who has always believed in chemistry, bought into the notion that you can go out and sign mercenaries, give them huge contracts and have success. That's been Synder's MO since day 1. At this point, I would be happy if Gibbs's legacy consisted of teaching Synder that we need to build a team from the bottom up, with draft picks. In fact, I think there would certainly be a place for Gibbs in the front office--however, it has become painfully obvious to me that his place is not on the field anymore. No shame in that at all, but he needs to move on.

[bootzilla]

Scared money dont make money.

[ucfSKINS]

C'mon man--Old people ARE our treasures!

*

Gibbs could also be a pitch man for "The Clapper".

Or perhaps "Oops I crapped my pants"

"When I was coaching the Redskins against the Giants, Packers and Eagles, I knew if I kept running the ball in the same spot and used all my timeouts early, we'd be in a good situation to win. But then, I was wrong! Thank god for Oops I Crapped my pants, otherwise, I would looked super dumb!":laugh: :laugh:

[illone]

Gibbs would be a good GM but you're right. He's gtg.

No way. That's been the worst part of Gibbs 2: giving away draft picks. I don't want Gibbs anywhere near personel decisions for this team.

[skins4eva]

No way. That's been the worst part of Gibbs 2: giving away draft picks. I don't want Gibbs anywhere near personel decisions for this team.

If he's learned his leason with regard to giving away picks and building through the draft, I'd like him to explain that lesson to Synder.

[ECU-ALUM]

If he's learned his leason with regard to giving away picks and building through the draft, I'd like him to explain that lesson to Synder.

I think we can file that under "nice-wish"...Snyder has proven one thing as an owner a Leopard doesn't change his spots...we may keep all over of our picks this year...but if Snyder realizes that he isn't having as much "fun" as he did when we were giving away the picks like free-lotto tickets then expect to see the Front Office agree to give our 1st rounder away next year for Warren Sapp or Derrick Brooks or David Gerrard.

[Shadowplay]

Gibbs had/has too much faith in Synder as an owner. Oddly enough, I guy like Gibbs who has always believed in chemistry, bought into the notion that you can go out and sign mercenaries, give them huge contracts and have success. That's been Synder's MO since day 1. At this point, I would be happy if Gibbs's legacy consisted of teaching Synder that we need to build a team from the bottom up, with draft picks. In fact, I think there would certainly be a place for Gibbs in the front office--however, it has become painfully obvious to me that his place is not on the field anymore. No shame in that at all, but he needs to move on.

The other thing that has bothered me from a football standpoint, and I think you've alluded to it before is the reluctance to run a spread offense and try to cram 11 guys between the hash marks. I try to watch a good deal of other games (thank you DirectTV), and I think I rarely see other teams running that type of offense. I can't see how it's productive either. Wouldn't it be easier to pick up blitz assignments if the guy had to run a few extra yards off his man? I could see it if you had a guy like Brunell who's arm strength is questionable, but Campbell can let it fly. He's going to be able to hit the guy who's 15 yards across the field.

[SKOALSKIN]

This is a great thread.

While I have some issues with the smugness of the OP's tone, the underlying meaning is dead on. While I can't speak for everyone, I'm certain that most fans saw the dissaray going on at Redskin Park before Gibbs came and assumed that his first order of business would be to clean up the in house business and establish a "Redskin Way" of doing things. Instead, he just bought into what Snyder was selling him, kept Vinny on, neglected the draft, spent through the roof for questionable free agents, was resistant to upgrade his offense to anything closely resembling football in the NFL in this decade, and failed to turn this team into anything resembling a hungry group of players.

It's fair to ask the question of does this guy still deserve to be here? Nothing much has changed since the day he came here...there have been blips that would suggest a turn around is on the horizon but it hasn't appeared yet and most likely WON'T under the current regime.

This is spot on. Gibbs II bought into the corporate side of the Skins and it has severly tarnished his Legacy. Thus proving that it takes a special breed of coach to win in the Free Agency era of football.

[skins4eva]

The other thing that has bothered me from a football standpoint, and I think you've alluded to it before is the reluctance to run a spread offense and try to cram 11 guys between the hash marks. I try to watch a good deal of other games (thank you DirectTV), and I think I rarely see other teams running that type of offense. I can't see how it's productive either. Wouldn't it be easier to pick up blitz assignments if the guy had to run a few extra yards off his man? I could see it if you had a guy like Brunell who's arm strength is questionable, but Campbell can let it fly. He's going to be able to hit the guy who's 15 yards across the field.

Very true. I joked to my step-father that we had 22 guys on the line of scrimmage at one point in that game. But you have to realize, this is a coaching staff that took an entire year to realize they needed to implement the shotgun formation in 2002. I started a thread about it in 2002! The first time we've ever seen the no-huddle since Gibbs returned was yesterday. I'll let you guess whose idea that was.

Saunders must be fighting an uphill battle--he's completely outnumbered. If he has an idea in the meetings that Gibbs doesn't like, you think Bugel and Breaux and Burns are going to take Saunders's side? These guys are completely loyal to Gibbs no matter what (reminds me of some of the people on this board). Saunders doesn't have complete control of this offense--no way those jumbo packages in the redzone are his idea. He understands that spreading out a defense puts a defense in a disadvantage.

[Shadowplay]

Very true. I joked to my step-father that we had 22 guys on the line of scrimmage at one point in that game. But you have to realize, this is a coaching staff that took an entire year to realize they needed to implement the shotgun formation in 2002. I started a thread about it in 2002! The first time we've ever seen the no-huddle since Gibbs returned was yesterday. I'll let you guess whose idea that was.

Saunders must be fighting an uphill battle--he's completely outnumbered. If he has an idea in the meetings that Gibbs doesn't like, you think Bugel and Breaux and Burns are going to take Saunders's side? These guys are completely loyal to Gibbs no matter what (reminds me of some of the people on this board). Saunders doesn't have complete control of this offense--no way those jumbo packages in the redzone are his idea. He understands that spreading out a defense puts a defense in a disadvantage.

I'm with you 100% on the shotgun issue, in fact I was just bringing it up to a co-worker a few hours ago in making a case for Gibbs to go.

One other issue about Gibbs is that from a fan's standpoint, we here the same thing coming out of his mouth whether the team wins or loses. If that's the case, I'm betting that the players are hearing the same thing inside the locker room as well. I think that really prevents a team from getting a sense of urgency. If you're hearing the same thing all the time, it has to be hard to distinguish between what's up and what's down.

And while we are on Gibbs' back, I have to take this opportunity to take a shot at GREGGGGGGG WILLIAMS. He refuses to adjust his game plan in the 4th quarter and I think it's been just as much (if not more) a problem than Gibbs' conservative offense. If you're running the same defense for the entire game, the rush four and drop everyone else 15 yards into coverage....EVENTUALLY an offensive coordinator is going to start finding the holes! It's been evident in over half the games this season....this guy cannot adjust from his initial gameplan and yesterday it cost us the game.

[IceDragon38]

It amazes me the people here who are still stuck in the past. Yes Joe Gibbs was a great coach. Yes, he won three Super Bowls. But the key words in those previous two sentences are was and won, meaning past tense. I wouldn't mind if the past was like 5 or 6 years ago, but we're talking about 1991, I was in the damn 1st grade! People are putting Billichick on the hot seat, and he won a Super Bowl only 7 years ago. I'm tired of everyone backing Gibbs saying "Well, this man once brought glory to this franchise, you will never understand" etc. Well forgive me for not being old enough in the 80s to remember how good of a coach is, but I think to harp on back then as to what's going on in 2007 is a testament to the state of this franchise. It would be nice to harp on what happened last year, or the year before, but when you gotta go back to an era when New Kid's On the Block was the most popular group in the country, then your argument becomes moot. Stop living in the past!