3 excellent Military quotes

[Spaceman Spiff]

Way to avoid the question and pull out the old "you're a bad Republican" card. :doh:

Can't expect much more than that, really.

[Corcaigh]

Granted, an Englishman complaining about another country's 'empire building' is beyond hypocritical.

No kidding.:laugh:

And the head of a church that is one of the largest land owners in the UK - yeah, you can guess how much of that land they actually paid for. :laugh:

[Corcaigh]

Granted, an Englishman complaining about another country's 'empire building' is beyond hypocritical.

No kidding.:laugh:

And the head of a church that is one of the largest land owners in the UK - yeah, you can guess how much of that land they actually paid for. :laugh:

[alexey]

The American Indians got what they deserved, for failing to stand up and continue to push the white man back into the Atlantic Ocean in the 1600's like they had in earlier centuries. The threw the Vikings and every other European interloper back into the sea until the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth. As soon as those Europeans were allowed to gain a foothold and the tribes refused to band together to fight their common enemy, the White Man, they were doomed. Just like the Irish and Scotish peoples had been against the English and just like we are currently being overrun by foreigners currently.

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Depopulation_from_disease

Disease began to kill immense numbers of indigenous Americans soon after Europeans and Africans began to arrive in the New World, bringing with them the infectious diseases of the Old World. One reason this death toll was overlooked (or downplayed) is that disease, according to the widely held theory, raced ahead of European immigration in many areas, thus often killing off a sizable portion of the population before European observations (and thus written records) were made. Many European immigrants who arrived after the epidemics had already killed massive numbers of American natives assumed that the natives had always been few in number. The scope of the epidemics over the years was enormous, killing millions of people—in excess of 90% of the population in the hardest hit areas—and creating "the greatest human catastrophe in history, probably exceeding even the disaster of the Black Death that killed up to two-thirds of the people in Europe between 1347 and 1351

[alexey]

The American Indians got what they deserved, for failing to stand up and continue to push the white man back into the Atlantic Ocean in the 1600's like they had in earlier centuries. The threw the Vikings and every other European interloper back into the sea until the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth. As soon as those Europeans were allowed to gain a foothold and the tribes refused to band together to fight their common enemy, the White Man, they were doomed. Just like the Irish and Scotish peoples had been against the English and just like we are currently being overrun by foreigners currently.

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Depopulation_from_disease

Disease began to kill immense numbers of indigenous Americans soon after Europeans and Africans began to arrive in the New World, bringing with them the infectious diseases of the Old World. One reason this death toll was overlooked (or downplayed) is that disease, according to the widely held theory, raced ahead of European immigration in many areas, thus often killing off a sizable portion of the population before European observations (and thus written records) were made. Many European immigrants who arrived after the epidemics had already killed massive numbers of American natives assumed that the natives had always been few in number. The scope of the epidemics over the years was enormous, killing millions of people—in excess of 90% of the population in the hardest hit areas—and creating "the greatest human catastrophe in history, probably exceeding even the disaster of the Black Death that killed up to two-thirds of the people in Europe between 1347 and 1351

[rincewind]

I don't understand why anti-hubris gets confused with anti-American.

[rincewind]

I don't understand why anti-hubris gets confused with anti-American.

[alexey]

I think it's quite a stretch to think that the Russians could have overwhelmed the Axis powers by themselves. They had repelled Hitler from the heart of Russia, but without the western front to deal with, Hitler could have retreated and consolidated his grip on Eastern Europe. Remember that he didn't even turn to Russia until after the Battle of Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWII#Soviet-German_War

More people fought and died on the Eastern Front than in all other theatres of World War II combined; the German army suffered 80% to 93% of all its casualties there.

[alexey]

I think it's quite a stretch to think that the Russians could have overwhelmed the Axis powers by themselves. They had repelled Hitler from the heart of Russia, but without the western front to deal with, Hitler could have retreated and consolidated his grip on Eastern Europe. Remember that he didn't even turn to Russia until after the Battle of Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWII#Soviet-German_War

More people fought and died on the Eastern Front than in all other theatres of World War II combined; the German army suffered 80% to 93% of all its casualties there.

[Barney B]

More people fought and died on the Eastern Front than in all other theatres of World War II combined; the German army suffered 80% to 93% of all its casualties there.

At first glance, that seems like a compelling statistic. But then when you pull up the link, the very next sentence reads:

Although the Soviet Union was victorious in the war, the cost to the nation was an estimated 27 million dead, about half of all World War II casualties and the vast majority of Allied deaths, and had devastated the Soviet economy in the struggle.

[Barney B]

More people fought and died on the Eastern Front than in all other theatres of World War II combined; the German army suffered 80% to 93% of all its casualties there.

At first glance, that seems like a compelling statistic. But then when you pull up the link, the very next sentence reads:

Although the Soviet Union was victorious in the war, the cost to the nation was an estimated 27 million dead, about half of all World War II casualties and the vast majority of Allied deaths, and had devastated the Soviet economy in the struggle.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Depopulation_from_disease

alexey, that's actually part of my point.... Those diseases wouldn't have become rampant in anywhere near the number IF, every time a white man tried to step foot on the shores of this continent the native americans did what they should have, and threw the dead bodies back into the Atlantic Ocean after they were done killing them.

Kind of the 17th Century version of "Tresspassers will be Shot. Survivors will be Shot Again."

Mass_ (and others), I strongly recommend reading "Mayflower:

A Story of Courage, Community, and War" by Nathaniel Philbrick, an excellent, detailed, nuanced account of how the Pilgrims and American Indians negotiated, betrayed, and fought with each other that cuts through the simplistic Thanksgiving mythology. One of the better history narratives I've read.

I'll have to take a look at that, though it really doesn't pertain a whole lot to what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the american indians putting their differences aside to protect their land from a common enemy and THEN getting back to killing each other over where the border between their individual nations actually was.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples#Depopulation_from_disease

alexey, that's actually part of my point.... Those diseases wouldn't have become rampant in anywhere near the number IF, every time a white man tried to step foot on the shores of this continent the native americans did what they should have, and threw the dead bodies back into the Atlantic Ocean after they were done killing them.

Kind of the 17th Century version of "Tresspassers will be Shot. Survivors will be Shot Again."

Mass_ (and others), I strongly recommend reading "Mayflower:

A Story of Courage, Community, and War" by Nathaniel Philbrick, an excellent, detailed, nuanced account of how the Pilgrims and American Indians negotiated, betrayed, and fought with each other that cuts through the simplistic Thanksgiving mythology. One of the better history narratives I've read.

I'll have to take a look at that, though it really doesn't pertain a whole lot to what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the american indians putting their differences aside to protect their land from a common enemy and THEN getting back to killing each other over where the border between their individual nations actually was.

[rtbasye]

My own addition to the fray

“The soldier is the Army. No army is better that its soldiers. The Soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one’s country.

“Hence it is a proud privilege to be a soldier – a good soldier … [with] discipline, self-respect, pride in his unit and his country, a high sense of duty and obligation to comrades and to his superiors, and a self confidence born of demonstrated ability.”

-Gen. George Patton

[rtbasye]

My own addition to the fray

“The soldier is the Army. No army is better that its soldiers. The Soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one’s country.

“Hence it is a proud privilege to be a soldier – a good soldier … [with] discipline, self-respect, pride in his unit and his country, a high sense of duty and obligation to comrades and to his superiors, and a self confidence born of demonstrated ability.”

-Gen. George Patton

[Midnight Judges]

Way to avoid the question and pull out the old "you're a bad Republican" card. :doh:

I'm not a Republican (or Democrat) and I'm equally perplexed at how you and others on this board will attack anything that has any hint of patriotism in it. It really is quite amazing.

Rince hit it on the head. You are confusing patriotism with hubris and arrogance.

[Midnight Judges]

Way to avoid the question and pull out the old "you're a bad Republican" card. :doh:

I'm not a Republican (or Democrat) and I'm equally perplexed at how you and others on this board will attack anything that has any hint of patriotism in it. It really is quite amazing.

Rince hit it on the head. You are confusing patriotism with hubris and arrogance.

[Zuck]

The American Indians got what they deserved, for failing to stand up and continue to push the white man back into the Atlantic Ocean in the 1600's like they had in earlier centuries. The threw the Vikings and every other European interloper back into the sea until the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth. As soon as those Europeans were allowed to gain a foothold and the tribes refused to band together to fight their common enemy, the White Man, they were doomed. Just like the Irish and Scotish peoples had been against the English and just like we are currently being overrun by foreigners currently.

We're all aware of your "me first" view of everything.

It's irrelevant to this discussion however. There were three quotes and my post was in response to one of them. The one where Colin Powell stated we've never engaged in land grabbing.

You're arguing that if someone doesn't defend there land than they deserve to have it taken over.

That's great. Please open up a thread about it.

[Zuck]

The American Indians got what they deserved, for failing to stand up and continue to push the white man back into the Atlantic Ocean in the 1600's like they had in earlier centuries. The threw the Vikings and every other European interloper back into the sea until the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth. As soon as those Europeans were allowed to gain a foothold and the tribes refused to band together to fight their common enemy, the White Man, they were doomed. Just like the Irish and Scotish peoples had been against the English and just like we are currently being overrun by foreigners currently.

We're all aware of your "me first" view of everything.

It's irrelevant to this discussion however. There were three quotes and my post was in response to one of them. The one where Colin Powell stated we've never engaged in land grabbing.

You're arguing that if someone doesn't defend there land than they deserve to have it taken over.

That's great. Please open up a thread about it.

[Zuck]

Very true. It is an impressive bit of extemporaneous eloquence. I wonder if he still holds aspirations for national leadership. Or how badly did his now infamous appearance before Congress making the case for war in Iraq derail his political career?

Unfortunately Powell has irreparably tarnished his reputation. What was equally bad was when he appeared before the U.N. and laid out a case based on horse sht.

[Zuck]

Very true. It is an impressive bit of extemporaneous eloquence. I wonder if he still holds aspirations for national leadership. Or how badly did his now infamous appearance before Congress making the case for war in Iraq derail his political career?

Unfortunately Powell has irreparably tarnished his reputation. What was equally bad was when he appeared before the U.N. and laid out a case based on horse sht.

[TrumanB]

Rince hit it on the head. You are confusing patriotism with hubris and arrogance.

I think it's probably a safe bet to say that you probably believe ANYTHING that is patriotic is hubris and arrgoance.

[TrumanB]

Rince hit it on the head. You are confusing patriotism with hubris and arrogance.

I think it's probably a safe bet to say that you probably believe ANYTHING that is patriotic is hubris and arrgoance.

[Midnight Judges]

I think it's probably a safe bet to say that you probably believe ANYTHING that is patriotic is hubris and arrgoance.

You're not the first right wing Republican to claim to be an independant.

[Midnight Judges]

I think it's probably a safe bet to say that you probably believe ANYTHING that is patriotic is hubris and arrgoance.

You're not the first right wing Republican to claim to be an independant.