CNN.com: SF Mulls Nation's First 'Supervised Injection' Site

[sacase]

Good luck in trying to make yourself exempt from federal law. That I can't wait to see. Hell the Feds won't even allow medical MJ use.

Why give them a safe place to shoot up? let em die if the OD. Its not like the contribute anything to society.

[Predicto]

Good luck in trying to make yourself exempt from federal law. That I can't wait to see. Hell the Feds won't even allow medical MJ use.

Why give them a safe place to shoot up? let em die if the OD. Its not like the contribute anything to society.

You are so right. There is no way a junkie can ever kick the habit and return to being a productive member of society.

Anyway, even from your callous point of view, there is a benefit to doing this. Some of these junkies take years to die. Who wants to look at that?

[headexplode]

I think we're getting to a place where we realize that addicts are not criminals, they are sick and need treatment. No, this does not address the root causes of drug addiction, and I doubt we'll ever get to that point (because that would require that we take a fundamental look at ourselves and our "values"), but it is a step in recognizing that stuffing drug addicts into overcrowded jails is just as productive as not doing anything at all, as well as recognizing that perhaps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is borderline insanity.

I think Zoony said that the drug war is obviously not working, and though I agree in a way, I think it's worth noting that the drug war is "working" for some people, namely those who make gigantic profits from it, which is why it seems highly (no pun intended) unlikely that we will see a dramatic shift from the status quo anytime soon.

[sacase]

You are so right. There is no way a junkie can ever kick the habit and return to being a productive member of society.

Anyway, even from your callous point of view, there is a benefit to doing this. Some of these junkies take years to die. Who wants to look at that?

Sorry, they choose to ruin their lives, why should I have to pay for their poor choice. If they OD so be it. This place is not about rehab it is about providing them a place to shoot up so they won't OD.

Hell, let's take it a step further Let's drop them all off on an island with food and shelter and NO DRUGS. Leave them there for a year. If they live, then they can return to society. If not, no great loss.

[helptheSKINS]

San Francisco is just trying to mess with Darwin.

LOL, well said. And what a shock this is coming out of SF. I'm amazed how many excuses are being made for law breakers.

Excuse: Illegal aliens have to come in illegally because the US VISA laws make it too hard for them to come here legally.

Reality: It is our law. It's our right to not let someone come in. It's that simple. If you aren't skilled, try to become skilled. If you can't, you will have to wait as long as laws say.

Excuse: Drug users are sick and pass diseases through needles so we should help them get high safely. We should also make it legal because it's a personal choice.

Reality: They are drug addicts. They break the law by stealing to get the drugs. They destroy their families because they care more about drugs then their families. Their childeren stand no chance because their parents are useless. Making heroine, Coke, ect. will make it easier for addicts to get the drugs which will result in the above examples. They will still be spending their time and money for drugs instead of with their childeren. They will still be stealing to pay for it. Once it's legal, there is no doubt someone will try to get the gov't to pay for the drugs. Why wouldn't they, it is legal.

Those are only a few examples, but my point is made. There is no doubt that the majority of the "excuse makers" are on the left. That is why I am finding it impossible to vote for them. The right hasn't done much right either but atleast they are not supporting these types of actions. Why can't Leiberman run? He's the type democrat that party needs.

[twa]

sacase and tough love

I tend to agree most will not change w/o hitting bottom or dying and think the program is not a good idea for government involvement.

[gbear]

This suffers from the same things as the needle exchange programs. It takes a look at the direct costs to society and tries to mitigate them. That's too much common sense for those with an almost fanatical view of law. Ultimately the law should serve the interests of society. When it fails to do so...

Ultimately these centers probably are net less expensive than their lack currently costs society. How many people end up in ERs from diseases due to needles, improper techniques, and unsafe enviroments to do drugs? Do people realize how expensive ERs are? How many people have their properties value go down because it's a "druggy area?" Living on Capital Hill for a while, I can tell you how fast the property values shot up when a few drug houses were busted and it became "a cleaner area."

I agreee declaring an area exempt from federal law is ludicrous. That's not going to fly unless it's an Indian reservation. Change the law.

[Predicto]

Sorry, they choose to ruin their lives, why should I have to pay for their poor choice. If they OD so be it. This place is not about rehab it is about providing them a place to shoot up so they won't OD.

Actually, its about giving them a place to shoot up so they won't pass dirty needles and further spread HIV and Hepatatis C, incurable diseases that will make them a greater burden on the taxpayer dollar (plus they might pass those diseases along to non-junkies someday).

[Koolblue13]

You are so right. There is no way a junkie can ever kick the habit and return to being a productive member of society.

QUOTE]Bull****! I have known plenty of people(unfortunitly) who have been hooked on heroin, they started doing when they were young and turned around thier lives.

Maybe we should stop giving billions of dollars to the terrorist hosting countries, who grow poppy and make them grow corn and such, to feed themselves. Maybe if our most recient presidents, didn't work with the same banks who fund the drug growers.

If this keeps people from getting Aids and costing us our tax dollars, we so desperitly need to fight our wars, rebuild our cities and educate our poor, then do it.

[Kilmer17]

Just to recap.

We're not a nation of laws. We're a nation of money.

Both sides are willing to ignore laws when money is involved. And both are willing to call the other side out when they do.

It would also make these criminals life easier if it werent illegal to rob a bank. Should we illiminate robbery laws as well?

[@DCGoldPants]

Isn't this what New Jack City was all about?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

That would vary by the individual,wouldn't it? (I left out the s )

Escapism,depression, lack of personal responsibility,poor self image :whoknows:

I have never really understood the need for hard drugs,perhaps you could enlighten me.

I have known many that got off into them and have never gotten a decent reason why.

I got my theories. And I have my personal experiences. When I get to work and have some time to really get into it later I'll post them.

Bull****! I have known plenty of people(unfortunitly) who have been hooked on heroin, they started doing when they were young and turned around thier lives.

Maybe we should stop giving billions of dollars to the terrorist hosting countries, who grow poppy and make them grow corn and such, to feed themselves. Maybe if our most recient presidents, didn't work with the same banks who fund the drug growers.

If this keeps people from getting Aids and costing us our tax dollars, we so desperitly need to fight our wars, rebuild our cities and educate our poor, then do it.

Yeah it's absolutely insane to me that 5 years after we have taken over Afghanistan they are producing more opiates then ever. Record crops every single year now.

[Baculus]

Good luck in trying to make yourself exempt from federal law. That I can't wait to see. Hell the Feds won't even allow medical MJ use.

Why give them a safe place to shoot up? let em die if the OD. Its not like the contribute anything to society.

Do you really know anything about heroin users? They all aren't just street junkies. In fact, there are a lot of "functional" junkies that go to work (and who wouldn't be using these type of facilities, as discussed in this thread).

And seeing how I just related a story about a friend who died from a heroin overdose, excuse me if I say "screw you," about the "let em die if the OD" part. I tell you this much: My friend apparently had a problem, but he was 10x the person you were, and he wasn't a callous arse.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Just to recap.

We're not a nation of laws. We're a nation of money.

Both sides are willing to ignore laws when money is involved. And both are willing to call the other side out when they do.

It would also make these criminals life easier if it werent illegal to rob a bank. Should we illiminate robbery laws as well?

I'm sorry but all these comparisons between things like robbing banks and whatever to doing drugs are completely bogus.

And I would argue that a lot of laws in this country as in place because of money. Again, prison industrial complex. Google it. So yes, we are a nation of money.

[Koolblue13]

:laugh: Unfortunately I have a hangup about lying and stealing that disqualifies me...perhaps that's why they usually start small time and work themselves up to it? :whoknows:

As far as the clinic,I think it's great to try to help people that truly need it,and it can be beneficial in cutting health risks and costs to the taxpayers.

However I believe it is a mistake,despite the good intentions,much like many programs for social ills that do not address the cause of the problems..

Are you sure, I think you'll have a local possition open soon.

[Kilmer17]

I'm sorry but all these comparisons between things like robbing banks and whatever to doing drugs are completely bogus.

And I would argue that a lot of laws in this country as in place because of money. Again, prison industrial complex. Google it. So yes, we are a nation of money.

Why are they bogus? Because you say so?

Thanks for proving my point. There are obviously laws tat YOU think can be broken in the name of public benefit, but YOU are the first to respond when someone else proposes a law be ignored.

[twa]

Are you sure, I think you'll have a local possition open soon.

??? Mayor?

[Baculus]

LOL, well said. And what a shock this is coming out of SF. I'm amazed how many excuses are being made for law breakers.

Excuse: Illegal aliens have to come in illegally because the US VISA laws make it too hard for them to come here legally.

Reality: It is our law. It's our right to not let someone come in. It's that simple. If you aren't skilled, try to become skilled. If you can't, you will have to wait as long as laws say.

Excuse: Drug users are sick and pass diseases through needles so we should help them get high safely. We should also make it legal because it's a personal choice.

Reality: They are drug addicts. They break the law by stealing to get the drugs. They destroy their families because they care more about drugs then their families. Their childeren stand no chance because their parents are useless. Making heroine, Coke, ect. will make it easier for addicts to get the drugs which will result in the above examples. They will still be spending their time and money for drugs instead of with their childeren. They will still be stealing to pay for it. Once it's legal, there is no doubt someone will try to get the gov't to pay for the drugs. Why wouldn't they, it is legal.

Those are only a few examples, but my point is made. There is no doubt that the majority of the "excuse makers" are on the left. That is why I am finding it impossible to vote for them. The right hasn't done much right either but atleast they are not supporting these types of actions. Why can't Leiberman run? He's the type democrat that party needs.

Do you even understand the point of the discussion, because you sure do not demonstrate such an understanding.

Your points are wrong. First off, everyone doesn't "steal" to get their drugs. Some addicts actually have jobs, but they spend all their money on drugs, which is sad. But there are "functioning addicts" in our society, and you probably do not even realize that the person is a junkie. Secondly, this nation does have a Christian morality, even if a person isn't a practicing Christian, and part of this Christian ethic is to help those dire situations.

Let me guess: You probably don't want to help the sick or those in poor situations as well, right? Hell, why do we even have a society with ethics if we don't want to help those in need?

And don't mistake it: Some of these drug users are in need and do need help of one type or another. And, as someone mentioned, so users DO become better, quit using, and improve their lives.

Also, this topic has nothing to do with legalizing. It doesn't, because that is entirely a different step. Thus, you really don't appear to understand the nature of the subject. It is about program that is similar to the needle exchange programs, which helps to alleviate the diseases being passed between users.

This is similar to the prostituon issue: Unfortunately, in areas where it is illegal, it does happen. I would much rather have a system where the prostitutes are tested and assisted with health issues as opposed to just being on the street, aiding to STDs.

The argument of "It is illegal, and that's that" just isn't realistic; it sometimes just is not that simple, especially when it relates to health issues.

[Baculus]

Just to recap.

We're not a nation of laws. We're a nation of money.

Both sides are willing to ignore laws when money is involved. And both are willing to call the other side out when they do.

It would also make these criminals life easier if it werent illegal to rob a bank. Should we illiminate robbery laws as well?

I don't think that is a very good counter-argument. That is an entirely different issue.

What we are partially discussing are programs to provide clean needles to help prevent the spread of diseases. How is it logical to make the leap from that discussion to the example that you provided?

That is like saying "If we let someone speed five MPH over the limit, then why don't we let me steal cars!?"

[Predicto]

You are so right. There is no way a junkie can ever kick the habit and return to being a productive member of society.

Bull****! I have known plenty of people(unfortunitly) who have been hooked on heroin, they started doing when they were young and turned around thier lives.

I guess my Stephen Colbert imitation didn't go over so well.

[Baculus]

You are so right. There is no way a junkie can ever kick the habit and return to being a productive member of society.

QUOTE]Bull****! I have known plenty of people(unfortunitly) who have been hooked on heroin, they started doing when they were young and turned around thier lives.

Maybe we should stop giving billions of dollars to the terrorist hosting countries, who grow poppy and make them grow corn and such, to feed themselves. Maybe if our most recient presidents, didn't work with the same banks who fund the drug growers.

If this keeps people from getting Aids and costing us our tax dollars, we so desperitly need to fight our wars, rebuild our cities and educate our poor, then do it.

This is a BIG ISSUE. We, meaning the U.S. HAVE been involved with the drug trade. I have previously posted about this, and I even wrote about this in the past: We have been involved in the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia (and this includes a member of the current Bush administration), and we have been involved in the South American drug trade.

More specifically, it has been the DEA, CIA, and some military teams that have been involved.

How do we know? Because we have witnesses, including a people that have even testified in front of Congress.

Remember Contra cocaine? Where do you think some of the coke during the 80's was sometimes originating? From the CIA - Contra cocaine exchange program. This isn't myth: It is well documented. In fact, it is SO documented, as far as government involvement with drugs, I am shocked that nothing has been done to stop such involvement.

Here are a couple of links:

The website of Celerino Castillo, the DEA agent to testified in front of Congress on DEA - military involvement with cocaine trafficking.

Further details from agent Castillo:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/contra1.html

http://www.powderburns.org/

http://ciadrugs.homestead.com/files/index.html

This is a entry I made in my (now defunct_ blog:

http://baculus.blogspot.com/2005/09/ciadea-drug-trade.html

There is such a wealth of information on this subject that I can post link after link.

So while we have folks on this board self-righteously talking about how junkies should be left to die and how it isn't our problem, they clearly demonstrate that this issue IS OUR PROBLEM, and partially because factions of our government - criminal elements, whoever they are - are willing to bring drugs into this country.

And never mind our current involvement with drug lords. We never had issues with working with the Northern Alliance, who are known to be involved with the drug trade in Afghanistan, among some of the other "anti-terrorists" with whom we are involved.

Again, this issue is very complex, on different levels.

[Koolblue13]

I guess my Stephen Colbert imitation didn't go over so well.

You mean POTUS hopefull Stephen Colbert.

Sorry, I missed it. Coming from you, I should have.:doh:

[Kilmer17]

As much as we all hate the Afghan poppy production, it's obviously either legal, or simply not enforced in their country. How can we tell them to stop? And if they told us that Alcohol was illegal in their country, and that we should stop producing it, would we?

The answer is simple. Legalize it all, control it, and make a sh!tload of money in taxing the everlivingcrap out of it.

And make it mandatory life sentence if you are caught selling it on the black market.

[Koolblue13]

This is a BIG ISSUE. We, meaning the U.S. HAVE been involved with the drug trade. I have previously posted about this, and I even wrote about this in the past: We have been involved in the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia (and this includes a member of the current Bush administration), and we have been involved in the South American drug trade.

More specifically, it has been the DEA, CIA, and some military teams that have been involved.

Again, this issue is very complex, on different levels.

Funny you mentioned this. I posted a link in another thread today, relating to the Bush/Clinton political family, being on the same team.

I don't know how so many people can bury thier heads in the sand, when it comes to drugs and on so many different levels. How they get here, who brings them, who funds it, our prison system, etc, etc.....

[Koolblue13]

1. As much as we all hate the Afghan poppy production, it's obviously either legal, or simply not enforced in their country. How can we tell them to stop? And if they told us that Alcohol was illegal in their country, and that we should stop producing it, would we?

2. The answer is simple. Legalize it all, control it, and make a sh!tload of money in taxing the everlivingcrap out of it.

And make it mandatory life sentence if you are caught selling it on the black market.

1. Stop giving them billions of dollars every year, while they grow it, instead of food for thier people.

2. EXACTLY!