Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 you might want to chalk it up to team effort??? go chart the stats on the flip side... what did Wash allow vs Miami... what did Dal allow vs Miami... I bet that is interesting... I'm sure if you check time of possesion, field position and a few other important stats, you might have a fuller story line, instead of picking and choosing stats that fit your need for this argument... Of course, only one stat really matters at the end of the day.. and that is the W... which, both Dallas and Wash got against Miami... I'm not picking and choosing...some of you guys REALLY need to follow along. I was talking about a specific point made--that Miami's defense really isn't all that good as we've been hearing Skins fans say this past week, and they're not that good because look how many points the Cowboys put up on them. I addressed that specific point, by showing that giving ANY offense FIVE drives starting inside the opponents 40 yard line, and they'll score points. Dallas' offensive output was due as much to that as to anything else. It's funny how turnovers are hailed as the all-important thing to achieve if you want to help guarantee a win...unless it's the Cowboys' defense are the ones getting the turnovers. Then, the turnovers are irrelevant...it's simply their offense that got the points, turnovers played no recognizable role in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Wins come from how many points you score and how many you give up. Yards and the rest of it don't mean jack. The cowboys have proven that however the hell they can, they find a way to get into the endzone. THAT is the one thing the skins still need to do. All the BS in the world doesn't change the fact that despite "tough nose ground game" or whatever romantic association you want to make with this teams offense during Gibbs II... they have struggled to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Agreed on all counts. The fans here who are rationalizing the Cowboys' offensive success are reeeeaaally stretching, here...Even if you want to blame Trent Green for throwing picks, then as Redskins fans we still have to ask ourselves why we couldn't take advantage. Face it, the Cowboys offense looks better than ours. If not, then their defense is better than ours. I mean, how come WE couldn't create turnovers like that, and score points like that? The Cowboys are scaring me. Really, my only hope is that their coach Wilson Phillips(that's their coach's name, right?) makes some famously boneheaded blunder (like benching their star QB for Rob Johnson right before an important playoff game) and then loses and gets fired. I appreciate the candid responsed in this thread, it is refreshing. I do want to point out something about the Cowboys o. Last year they were ranked #5 in the NFL. They would have been higher if Romo sits to pee started earlier in the season. This isn't like some revelation that the Cowboys all of the sudden can move the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 We are lousy at creating turnovers. It frustrates me more than anything. I agree... :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONTEY Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 As much as I despise a Cowturd and their inbred fans their offence is much better then ours right now. Best in our division. At least until tomorrow night. As posted this can be a statement game for our Skins. But I just dont see our offence scoring 24 points or more against Philthy. Still hoping for the win. :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 I'm not picking and choosing...some of you guys REALLY need to follow along. I was talking about a specific point made--that Miami's defense really isn't all that good as we've been hearing Skins fans say this past week, and they're not that good because look how many points the Cowboys put up on them. I addressed that specific point, by showing that giving ANY offense FIVE drives starting inside the opponents 40 yard line, and they'll score points. Dallas' offensive output was due as much to that as to anything else. It's funny how turnovers are hailed as the all-important thing to achieve if you want to help guarantee a win...unless it's the Cowboys' defense are the ones getting the turnovers. Then, the turnovers are irrelevant...it's simply their offense that got the points, turnovers played no recognizable role in it. Maimi's defense got run over by the redskins ground game and now run over by Dallas on the ground as well. You want to talk turnovers? They caused none at all today. That defense doesn't look impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Wins come from how many points you score and how many you give up. Yards and the rest of it don't mean jack. The cowboys have proven that however the hell they can, they find a way to get into the endzone. THAT is the one thing the skins still need to do. All the BS in the world doesn't change the fact that despite "tough nose ground game" or whatever romantic association you want to make with this teams offense during Gibbs II... they have struggled to score. Let me remind you of what you said, since you obviously can't remember it yourself: "The Dolphins D that if you can believe extremeskins this past week is amazing." You then went on to basically say that it's either 1) not amazing, or 2) the Dallas offense is that much MORE amazing, because they scored 37 points on them. I countered that it was the Miami OFFENSE and the bucketload of turnovers that helped the Dallas offense score those points FAR FAR FAR more than it was the potency of the Dallas offense scoring on a great defense. You've yet to acknowledge how having 5 drives start inside your opponent's 40 yard line could contribute to the offensive output and points...it's like turnovers and field position have played absolutely NO role in your thinking or analysis...they're irrelevant, not worth even discussing in your eyes. If so, your analysis and conclusions are too flawed to be considered even remotely intelligent...but instead are merely emotional. ("why can't the Skins score point!!!")... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Romo sits to pee completed 49% of his passes for 186 yards, the RBs combined for 133 yards and 2 TDs. Those stats certainly look to me like more of a benefit of turnovers than they do an "amazing offense." Then again, Destino was in the Cowboys game thread saying this stuff, so how necessary was this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Agreed on all counts. The fans here who are rationalizing the Cowboys' offensive success are reeeeaaally stretching, here...Even if you want to blame Trent Green for throwing picks, then as Redskins fans we still have to ask ourselves why we couldn't take advantage. 1) We didn't have 5 turnovers given to us by the Dolphins...so there was nothing for us TO take advantage of on offense. 2) It's not the offense's job to create turnovers...so we can't compare two different offenses when one is given the benefit of numerous short fields and the other one is not. 3) Both offenses were able to move the ball on the Miami defense, and at a very similar clip practically across the board...the main difference was in points. So was there any other variable or stat involved that may explain the point differential? Ah, there IS one that has always been considered to play an extremely important and significant role in both points and wins: turnovers. Dallas' defense got them, the Skins' defense did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I really thought the Phins would give Dallas a game. They did, for awhile, but then Dallas just pulled away, like great teams tend to do when facing tough opponents. They just started pouring it on in the second half. Phins were playing from behind and we knew they would be passing. They put some pressure on Green and he threw a bunch of INT's. It's only going to get harder from here on out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 It's hard to tell if your defense isn't as bad as week one, or if our defense is still lousy at creating turnovers lol... Probably a little bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 You mean Miami just started to self-destruct on offense, like average offenses tend to do as the game goes on... Average? :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 You mean Miami just started to self-destruct on offense, like average offenses tend to do as the game goes on... i'd consider our offense average as well. what chance do we have then? i think its difficult to extrapolate week to week; especially the way fans like to compare teams. our offensive stats don't compare to their offensive stats, b/c we'll be playing the cowboy defense. if we can't score on them, it doesn't matter what we did against the dolphins. i think our key to success is the ability to score touchdowns. we can rush for 200yds, eat up the clock, score 13 points, play lights out defense, and still lose. 2 big plays from the other team and we lose. we need to score points. :hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDFan5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Dallas had--count with me here--FIVE DRIVES INSIDE THE DOLPHINS' 40 YARD LINE...you give ANY decent offense five starts on a short field like that late in the game when the defenses are getting tired, and they'll score. And in case you weren't actually watching the game, two of those five drives WERE stopped for field goals...the Miami D kept two drives to 5 and 19 yards. Bad defenses don't do that. Nobody said it WAS a fluke....but the main reason they scored 37 was because of the Dolphins' turning the ball over 5 times, NOT because the Cowboys were marching up and down the field. When the Dallas offense was made to start on THEIR side of the field, they managed 10 total points. When they were allowed to start within the Miami 40 yard line, they scores 27. Good offenses don't need short fields to score lots of points...nor do they need to play against abysmal defenses. Dallas has had the benefit of both. Its not like Miami was just giving the ball away, of the 4 INTs only 1 was an easy pick, the other 3 were good defensive plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StonetheCrow_77 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 1) We didn't have 5 turnovers given to us by the Dolphins...so there was nothing for us TO take advantage of on offense.2) It's not the offense's job to create turnovers...so we can't compare two different offenses when one is given the benefit of numerous short fields and the other one is not. 3) Both offenses were able to move the ball on the Miami defense, and at a very similar clip practically across the board...the main difference was in points. So was there any other variable or stat involved that may explain the point differential? Ah, there IS one that has always been considered to play an extremely important and significant role in both points and wins: turnovers. Dallas' defense got them, the Skins' defense did not. maybe some should point out that football is a team effort?? Dallas offense was helped out considerably by those turnovers... no one should dispute that... but, the Cowboys Defense played well enough... and the TEAM capitalized on turnovers... whoever easy or difficult anyone wants to say those turnovers are... In order to win, teams have to be able to take the ball and put it in the end zone one way or another... and then keep the team from putting it in the end zone less than they did... it's pretty much that simple... the who, what, when, or where is beyond the fact... no one will care at the end of the year about a thing, beyond the teams record... W's and L's are the only stats that amount to anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Have to wait and see as the season progresses. I still think that things will even themselves out. Romo sits to pee did move the ball and he did get it done when given short fields. The question comes when the pukes play a good team that doesn't make stupid mistakes and give up turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDFan5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Have to wait and see as the season progresses. I still think that things will even themselves out.Romo sits to pee did move the ball and he did get it done when given short fields. The question comes when the pukes play a good team that doesn't make stupid mistakes and give up turnovers. give up turnovers also known as the defense forcing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGSKINS Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I knew this thread was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Romo sits to pee completed 49% of his passes for 186 yards, the RBs combined for 133 yards and 2 TDs. Those stats certainly look to me like more of a benefit of turnovers than they do an "amazing offense." The stat book shows 166 because it doesn't draw lines where it needs to in order to prove a point. This is after giving up 191 to the skins. That's a 178.5 average. 31st this year by the current stats and 32nd compared to the leagues final numbers. That's how bad the Dolphin defense has been so far this year against the opponents running game. You want to argue that's the mark of a good defense? You want to tell me that turnovers forced them to get pushed around on the ground again? Feel free. They caused no turnovers and they gave up more touchdowns then they did field goals. I love stats man, we can do this all day. Right now the Dolphin D has NOT bailed their team out of trouble, something that good defenses do routinely. In over time last year that aging D got run over completely. Then again, Destino was in the Cowboys game thread saying this stuff, so how necessary was this thread? This thread covers more then the cowboy games doesn't it? Really think a look back on the meaning of two games and the look forward to the Monday game belongs in the cowboy game thread? Cry some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Let me remind you of what you said, since you obviously can't remember it yourself:"The Dolphins D that if you can believe extremeskins this past week is amazing." You then went on to basically say that it's either 1) not amazing, or 2) the Dallas offense is that much MORE amazing, because they scored 37 points on them. Sarcasm. I don't think the Dolphin defense is amazing and I thought it odd when they were made out to be world beaters on this message board. A monster defense doesn't roll over like theirs did last week. I countered that it was the Miami OFFENSE and the bucketload of turnovers that helped the Dallas offense score those points FAR FAR FAR more than it was the potency of the Dallas offense scoring on a great defense. You've yet to acknowledge how having 5 drives start inside your opponent's 40 yard line could contribute to the offensive output and points...it's like turnovers and field position have played absolutely NO role in your thinking or analysis...they're irrelevant, not worth even discussing in your eyes. If so, your analysis and conclusions are too flawed to be considered even remotely intelligent...but instead are merely emotional. ("why can't the Skins score point!!!")... My comments on the skins lack of scoring is unrelated to the dolphins defense. It's a look backwards at the problems we've had over the years. 2006 - 20th 19.2ppg 2005 - 13th 22.4ppg 2004 - 30th 15ppg 2003 - 22nd 17.9ppg The one year we cracked the top half of the league in scoring we made the post season. Other then that we've struggled to score. That's not an emotional argument, that is the truth of it supported by the stats above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Let's see what the pukes do against the Bears D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StonetheCrow_77 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Let's see what the pukes do against the Bears D. isn't that what everyone said all through out last week about Miami and their real defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The Dolphins suck, the Giants suck, and the Cowboys are as good as I expected; about a 9-7 team or so. They beat two creampuffs by an average of 13.5 points a game. Any decent team would do that, and they hardly looked like the Patriots. Plus, their defense is clearly below par. In one acronym: BFD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbieac Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 The Dolphins suck, the Giants suck, and the Cowboys are as good as I expected; about a 9-7 team or so. They beat two creampuffs by an average of 13.5 points a game. Any decent team would do that, and they hardly looked like the Patriots. Plus, their defense is clearly below par. In one acronym: BFD. If the Cowboys are a 9-7 team then I would love to see what your prediction is for the Redskins. Before you predict please take into account that the Skins only beat one of those "creampuffs" by 3 points, and they had to take it into overtime to accomplish that amazing feat...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 If the Cowboys are a 9-7 team then I would love to see what your prediction is for the Redskins. Before you predict please take into account that the Skins only beat one of those "creampuffs" by 3 points, and they had to take it into overtime to accomplish that amazing feat...... Anywhere between 8-8 and 10-6 would make sense to me. One game doesn't matter all that much. And if you really want to go by that, you could still say that the Redskins' defense is far ahead of Dallas', which it is. When we play them, you'll see how we match up. Right now isn't the best time to guess at that. Ask me tomorrow and my opinion might be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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