jimster Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 If you were a good defensive or offensive coordinator, would you rather stay with a team with a shot at play-offs or be the head coach at Cincinatti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 guys like Parcells and even to a lesser degree Schottenheimer are able to move on and get jobs in the NFL because of past successes with some quality organizations. working for Cincinnati almost guarantees that you are not going to win on a high level so in regards to job security and the opportunity to have a long career in the NFL, I would pass up the Bengals job. I am sure more than a few of Marvin Lewis' friends have told him not to take that job. The lack of committed resources by Brown ensure that the Bengals are never going to be program that attracts free agents or gets key players to resign with the club. Who wants to work in that environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I see a lot of upside to the Bengals talent - they really have drafted well over the past few years. I see an excellent young WR corps..good linebackers...a few nice offensive linemen a great young DE. The cupboard's not bare by any stretch. I guess the problem is Mike Brown's involvement and $$. If you could convince Brown to get out of the way and to shake loose some bucks (not just for your coaching contract, but to upgrade things with the organization), it's an opportunity to come off looking like a genius. I'd trade that #1 pick down, though. If I could get enough picks in trade, I'd forego the young QB, although Carson Palmer had me drooling in the Orange Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 If my name was Marvin Lewis, I would hold on one more year and take the job in AZ or Seattle or Miami after 2003 if those teams can't get it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I think the only way anybody should take a job with the bungles is if they would sign them to a long term contract with a clause that they can't be fired for, let's say 5 years, to give the staff a chance to bring in people, talent and then put it all together. I don't care how good you are, you need time to get a system in place and working. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I just don't understand Mike Brown's reasoning? Why have most of the coaching staff as your scouts anyway? Don't they have enough trouble trying to coach a losing team?? He is the #1 reason why the franchise is the laughingstock of the league, and will continue to be until he pulls his head out of his ***. What an idiot! Marvin would be committing career suicide if he took this job. The last thing a rookie head coach needs to be worried about is scouting AND coaching the team. I think LeBeau could've done a good job if so many responsibilities weren't forced upon him. Until Brown changes his ways, no coach with talent will come anywhere near Cincinnati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eparadox Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Just imagine if you went to the Bungles, and actually brought them to the playoffs. You'd instantly be considered one of the top coaches in the league, and would be employed in the NFL for the rest of your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I'd pass pn the Cincy job and wait for the NFLs version of a hostile takeover led by Taglibue to oust Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 If Marvin Lewis is offered the Bengals job and it meets his salary demands then he has to take the job. You take the opportunity to be a head coach when it presents itself. It isn't career suicide for someone like Marvin Lewis. He's a known commodity as a defensive coordinator and will always have that to fall back on if he fails as a head coach. That's a given. There are 32 head coaching positions in the NFL and a limited window of opportunity for the countless number of head coaching canidates out there. He's all ready interviewed for other head coaching positions and lost out. Just the fact that he's gotten so many interviews is better than most coaches get. Marvin Lewis isn't Bill Parcells, or Mike Holmgren or Dennis Green for that matter. Coaches who can pick and choose where they want to coach. Coaches with a track record. He doesn't have that luxury. If the job meets all his requirements then he has to take it. If he doesn't he may never get another chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Originally posted by Nighthawk If Marvin Lewis is offered the Bengals job and it meets his salary demands then he has to take the job. I disagree. You take the opportunity to be a head coach when it presents itself. It isn't career suicide for someone like Marvin Lewis. He's a known commodity as a defensive coordinator and will always have that to fall back on if he fails as a head coach. That's a given. Lewis has been a defensive coordinator for a while now, he wants to take that next step to Head Coach. But I'm sure he doesn't want to fail. Coaching the Bengals with the front office the way it is now, means he will fail. He doesn't want to fall back on being a DC, he wants to be a HC and be successful at it. He has no chance of doing that working for Mike Brown. If the job meets all his requirements then he has to take it. If he doesn't he may never get another chance. If he takes the job he may never get another chance. You think anyone will hire LeBeau? Doubt it. Or the last Bengals head coach? What are those guys doing now?? Lewis would be committing career suicide if he took that job. And if the Bengals position actually does meet all his requirements, than he deserves to fail. Any coach who believes he requirements are being fulfilled when the owner is basically tying your hands behind your back, blindfolding you, and asking you to win is out of his league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I doubt Lewis is stupid enough to believe that he can win with things being done as they have in Cincy. I would imagine that he asked for and received assurances from Brown that things would change and the club would commit more resources to winning in the future. Only thing is, I think that puts him squarely in the gullible chump category for believing anything Brown tells him to get him to sign. Sadly for Lewis, it appears his desperation to both get out of DC and become a HC somewhere, no ANYWHERE has affected his judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Gentlemen, you get offered a HC job anywhere in the NFL and the price is too your liking, you take it. Coaching windows are very small and since only 32 men hold that position, you take any chance you get. Unlike fans, owners and GMs can see a good coach regardless of how a team pans out in the W - L record. If he is good enough, the Bengals can succeed. In the end though, you don't have the luxary to decide because of the details as to who your taking over as a ball coach, you make sure you are given enough of a chance to win and you go for it. There are a million details that have to be sifted through and not all job offers are perfect. But lets not be stupid. Someone offers you the job you've been looking for, you take it. Most of the reasons you guys have mentioned here, mean little in the decision making process for a want-to-be HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Cinci really isn't that far off. I'd take the Cinci job, they do have decent talent and I'd have enough confidence in my own ability to think I could help turn it around. Plus, you turn Cinci into a winner right now and you can write your own ticket to wherever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 You act as though NFL Head Coaching jobs are out there to be picked like fruit. When you factor in how many NFL coaching jobs are filled by previous head coaches, there are just so many opportunities out there for assistant coaches. The window of opportunity is very small for these coaches. This year there were three jobs available. Two actually, because the Cowboys job was Parcells from the get go. That leaves two jobs for the countless number of assistant coaches and former head coaches to choose from. If Pittsburgh offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey is offered the job and takes it, is he desperate? How many assistant coaches have seen their time come and go and never get a head coaching job? Emmitt Thomas never got a head coaching job. Sherman Lewis never got a head coaching job. There's always a new, young genius around the corner. For Redskins fans out there I'll give you a name of a great assistant coach who never got a chance as a head coach even though he made the climb from LB's coach to defensive coordiantor. Larry Peccatielo. You take it when you can get it. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiddler Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Imagine you're a GM looking for a HC and someone mentioned a coordinator who had previously turned down a HC job. Would you even bother to interview him? Either he doesn't want to be a HC badly enough, or he's afraid of failure. Either one of those takes him off the list. Marvin Lewis may not be the next HC of the Bungles, but he won't turn it down if it's offered. Can anyone think of a coordinator without previous HC experience who has turned down a HC position? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Gary Kubiak of the Broncos I believe turned down offers and said he was content to stay in Denver, though I believe you all are right to the extent that his window has closed and no one is really offering him anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I think I would turn down a job in Cincy. With no full-time scouts, you are at a competitive disadvantage from the start in terms of identifying talent. I do not agree at all with the statement here by Utah that a good coach is recognized despite wins and losses. As Parcells said yesterday, you measure success by wins and losses and nothing else. There's no announcements about quarterly earnings rising 10 percent and counting that as a victory. By in large who you are as a coach is defined precisely by your ability to win games or your inability to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 I see a lot of upside to the Bengals talent - they really have drafted well over the past few years. I see an excellent young WR corps..good linebackers...a few nice offensive linemen a great young DE. The cupboard's not bare by any stretch. Scouting aside, there is some talent in Cincy. If lewis can just get the guys who are there right now to act as a team, then he can get them to a 500 record next year. If the NFL decides to add those two playoff teams then he's in the playoffs. Thats not too shabby for a rookie head coach. Brown has agreed to increase the scouting dept and let him hire his own coaches. Given its not the ideal situation, but it is something worth looking at. When Dungy went down to Tampa, eerybody in the league just thought that he was just another addition to teh coaching carousel and that he would be out in 2 or 3 years like everybody else. THen he turned the whole organization around. I think this all boils down to confidence. Like a rookie QB who gets drafted by a sorry team. He can either think 'awe hell, I'm gonna be on the sorryest franchise in the NFL for my first 4 years' or he can go in there like 'I'm gonna be the one to turn this place around.' Lewis knows that this is the laughing stock of the league. But he also knows that if he turns this place around, then he will always have a job as a HC in the NFL. I mean there is a positive side to this. Oh and BTW, the Bills are really interested in adding LeBeau to their staff. “Anytime you can get a coach like Dick LeBeau, you try to fit him in anywhere you can,” Donahoe said. “I would obviously be interested in something like that because of what I think of him.” from www.bengals.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 If he takes the job he may never get another chance. You think anyone will hire LeBeau? Doubt it. Or the last Bengals head coach? What are those guys doing now?? Lewis would be committing career suicide if he took that job. Dick LeBeau is 65 and I doubt he would have ever been offered another head coaching job after this one whether or not he had been successful. Secondly, he was a great defensive coordinator prior to becoming the Bengals head coach and yes, even at 65 someone out there want's his services. Read on. LeBeau interests Bills 1/1/2003 - 1-1-03, 11:40 a.m. BY GEOFF HOBSON It’s a new year for Dick LeBeau and apparently a new job in the NFL. LeBeau ended his run as Bengals head coach in Buffalo this past Sunday, but the Bills are interested in extending his career in the NFL to a 45th season. Bills president Tom Donahoe said Wednesday morning that he wants to explore adding LeBeau to his staff in some form even though he doesn’t anticipate major changes on Buffalo’s defensive side of the ball. “Anytime you can get a coach like Dick LeBeau, you try to fit him in anywhere you can,” Donahoe said. “I would obviously be interested in something like that because of what I think of him.” Donahoe has had high regard of LeBeau ever since they were together in Pittsburgh from 1992-96, when Donahoe was the Steelers director football operations and LeBeau was the secondary coach and later defensive coordinator during a stretch the club went to three AFC championship games. But Donahoe has plenty to say to him and the two have already traded phone messages. Even though LeBeau is 65, Donahoe has no doubts what he can bring to a Buffalo defense rebuilding under defensive head coach Gregg Williams. Not to mention potential free-agent Takeo Spikes, the linebacker LeBeau drafted in the first round for the Bengals in 1998. “There is nobody who can sit down and X and O on defense like Dick,” Donahoe said. “And he’s always had tremendous rapport with players. He’s an energetic guy who gives it to you straight. And he’s the kind of guy I believe would want to stay in coaching.” After talking with LeBeau Monday morning, Brown got the impression he wanted to stay in coaching. Except for that five-year stint in Pittsburgh, LeBeau spent 18 seasons with the Bengals as secondary coach and then defensive coordinator. But he spent his first seven seasons in the NFL in Philadelphia and Green Bay after playing 14 seasons with the Lions. After LeBeau got released from Sam Wyche’s staff following the 1991 season, Brown wanted to keep him on new coach Dave Shula’s staff, but Shula wanted a clean slate on defense. Donahoe says LeBeau’s lack of success in Cincinnati won’t have a bearing on his reputation league-wide. “The deck was stacked against him,” Donahoe said. “People know what kind of coach he is. That isn’t going to matter at all. If he wants to coach again, he’ll coach again.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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