Effects of Betts in 2006 on Portis in 2007

[Mooka]

I expect, carries wise, Portis 70%, Ladell 30%.

[desioreo87]

McD5 the way Portis runs allows him to get extra yards that Betts can't get, however the way betts hits holes allows him to have a higher yards per attempt cause he tries just finds the first hole then blasts throught whereas Portis is trying to find the big play and sets up blocks to achieve that.

Remember the CP run at the end of the first half against the Texans, do you think betts could have made that run?

Also do you think portis would have been caught from behind and/or fumbled the ball against the St. Louis Rams.

IMO i don't betts could have done either of that cause he doesn't have the vision nor the physicality of a Portis to make those runs.

[Forever21]

MCD5 in 5...

4...

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And the award for funniest/best post this month so far goes to :laugh:

Although McD5 didn't call for Portis' head surprisingly enough.

I think that Portis will get a 3/1 ratio of carries this season and that will help keep him fresh and healthy and will have a fantastic season, at least 1500 while Betts in a backup roll will deliver solidly and approach 1000 yards.

[HailSkinz1]

I beg to differ, but part of the running game coming into it's own were 2 things. Gibbs, Saunders, Betts and the O-line getting back to smash mouth football.

And also, Campbell was a bigger threat to throw the ball downfield than dumpoff Brunell. They could no longer stack the box all the time on first and second down. Not say JC was the second coming of Marino, but his ability to get the ball downfield and his threat of stepping up in the pocket and scrambling made defenses respect us on 1st and 2nd down more.

Pj, that's just simply flawed "logic." I'm not going to go into my entire thesis again here, but think about Marino. Did he EVER have a good running game? Nope. Why not? Because this crazy "big arm" theory is bogus. Think about Elway. Big arm but didn't have a running game for what, 15 years until a great RB came to his team in TD. It's really idiotic to think JC's presence alone caused teams not to stack the box. I've got several games on DVD and it just didn't happen that way. It's just another example of JC jock-sniffers trying to find hope in a QB that really was very average last year.

Let me explain this to you another way. The Redskins employed a run-oriented offense for JC. We rarely used three, four, or five WR sets. Teams did not defend us differently because of JC. And furthermore, JC WAS NOT successfull throwing the ball downfield. It makes no sense to think teams defended us differently.

Again, look at 2005. Portis broke the Redskins rushing record with Brunell at QB. Was the reasoning the same then? Of course not.

Fact of the matter is, the presence of a QB alone has NO effect on a running game. Now, had the Redskins played more four and five WR sets because they thought JC could throw deep better, then I would agree. But that didn't happen.

Finally, Larry Brown had his best years with Kilmer at the QB and not Sonny. No one would argue that Billy had a stronger arm and was more of a threat to go downfield.

JC was NOT more of a threat to go downfield as game footage and stats will tell you. Betts was successful because Gibbs went to a Gibbs offense and away from the gimmicky Saunders offense.

I respect you PJ, but I just can't tell you how idiotic the belief is that just because JC came into the game, Betts did well. It's really embarrassing. The professional game of football just isn't that simple. If so, Jeff George would still be playing because he would have the best running game in the NFL today.

Hail,

H

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I expect, carries wise, Portis 70%, Ladell 30%.

I'm with you dude, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Betts is the backup. Repeat it like a mantra. He knows he's the backup. Look at the contract. There is no mystery here.

[Ant15fromNJ]

Portis is going to play amazing and will make the pro bowl and betts will be our 3rd down back and get a few carries maybe like 10 a game.

[nace14]

how about you watch a game, and while you are at it why dont you learn what that acronym means. YPA means YARDS PER ATTEMPT...NOT yards per completion. move along.

yea i know what the acronym means, it still doesn't make a difference when it comes down to the game planning. in fact it even goes further to prove my point that defenses backed off the line when campbell came into the game. cause guess what, campbell actually throws the ball down field.

now, instead of making another stupid post in which you prove my point for the third straight time in an effort to try to look like a tough guy, sit down, be silent, and accept your ignorance.

[McD5]

yea i know what the acronym means, it still doesn't make a difference when it comes down to the game planning. in fact it even goes further to prove my point that defenses backed off the line when campbell came into the game. cause guess what, campbell actually throws the ball down field.

now, instead of making another stupid post in which you prove my point for the third straight time in an effort to try to look like a tough guy, sit down, be silent, and accept your ignorance.

It is common practice for a D to immediately go into prevent defense whenever an unproven rookie qb comes in off the bench. Even more so when he has a 700 page playbook to try to decipher.

Rookie qbs rarely hand the ball off to get into a rhythm, so it is always best to forget about the run.....and just play the deep ball pass.

You never want to put anyone in the box....and you certainly never try to pressure a rookie qb into mistakes.

All the NFL teams know this. That is why Betts did so well last season.:laugh:

[nace14]

It is common practice for a D to immediately go into prevent defense whenever an unproven rookie qb comes in off the bench. Even more so when he has a 700 page playbook to try to decipher.

Rookie qbs rarely hand the ball off to get into a rhythm, so it is always best to forget about the run.....and just play the deep ball pass.

You never want to put anyone in the box....and you certainly never try to pressure a rookie qb into mistakes.

All the NFL teams know this. That is why Betts did so well last season.:laugh:

come on now McD, we've had the same argument over and over again, and you know that is not my contention at all.

i do find it laughable though that you are trying to get a reaction from other readers by making a claim against me when you blatently know that i don't think that.

[paloosa]

If Betts is such a good RB then why is Portis still the starter going into this year? IMO is due to the other abilities Portis brings to the table that Betts doesn't possess. Portis is a better blocker, hits the hole faster, and is a better receiver. Don't get me wrong, Betts is a beast but he just doesn't do everything as well as Portis. So even with Betts having such a good year last year, Portis is still a notch better. Portis will have a Pro Bowl year and the team will surprise a lot of people this year.

[BMahoney]

We will not know until next season who truly is the better back, I have had a man crush on Betts for awhile, going back into the '05 season. Portis has been the better back for two reasons: he gets in the endzone and he doesn't fumble in big situations. Betts was not only good last season because of JC though that statement is plain ridiculous and needs to stop being brought up on this board. Teams just don't change a game plan for an unproven rookie qb who has a stronger arm then Brunell. My conclusion is Portis will take about 60%, and Betts will be used more at the end of games to keep the clock running and moving the changes (hoping he stops fumbling).

[funguy1286]

yea i know what the acronym means, it still doesn't make a difference when it comes down to the game planning. in fact it even goes further to prove my point that defenses backed off the line when campbell came into the game. cause guess what, campbell actually throws the ball down field.

now, instead of making another stupid post in which you prove my point for the third straight time in an effort to try to look like a tough guy, sit down, be silent, and accept your ignorance.

dude you are a joke

why would defenses back off the line when our rookie quarterback is barely throwing the ball with 50% accuracy and around a 75 rating while ladell betts is CONSISTENTLY running for over 100 yards a game. Not very bright huh?

[funguy1286]

If Betts is such a good RB then why is Portis still the starter going into this year? IMO is due to the other abilities Portis brings to the table that Betts doesn't possess. Portis is a better blocker, hits the hole faster, and is a better receiver. Don't get me wrong, Betts is a beast but he just doesn't do everything as well as Portis. So even with Betts having such a good year last year, Portis is still a notch better. Portis will have a Pro Bowl year and the team will surprise a lot of people this year.

:laugh:

You really think Portis hits the hole harder then Betts?

You really think Portis is a better reciever out of the backfield?

You my friend are wrong and obviously don't watch the Redskins all that often.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Again, look at 2005. Portis broke the Redskins rushing record with Brunell at QB. Was the reasoning the same then? Of course not.

Fact of the matter is, the presence of a QB alone has NO effect on a running game. Now, had the Redskins played more four and five WR sets because they thought JC could throw deep better, then I would agree. But that didn't happen.

remember, in 05 brunell proved that he could stretch the field, santana moss was actually the biggest deep threat in the NFL that season, and teams had to account for him at all times. moss was catching bomb passes all over the place. brunell became ineffective in 06 and couldnt throw a bomb pass to save his life, defenses knew this, stacked the box, end of story.

[BMahoney]

Portis is definitely not a better receiver then Betts, far as hitting holes Portis likes to go outside and Betts prefers in between the tackles so Betts has the obvious advantage here.

[BMahoney]

Lloyd maybe you didn't watch the '05 season you just read the numbers, Brunell has never had a good bomb Santana has just been able to make incredible play after incredible play, him being out last season is what could account for our big pay threat.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

:laugh:

You really think Portis hits the hole harder then Betts?

You really think Portis is a better reciever out of the backfield?

You my friend are wrong and obviously don't watch the Redskins all that often.

this whole myth about betts being some pass catching champion is beyond funny. lets look at some numbers.

before 2006, betts had never caught more than 15 passes in a season. thats less than 1 pass a game. this whole silly idea that hes some receiving threat is just a joke. his numbers in 06 were inflated because brunell couldnt throw to anybody else, and if you watched the redskins that often, youd be aware of this.

portis is a better pass catcher out of the backfield. he can make more moves after the catch, and hes faster.

and lol at "hitting the hole harder". i guess portis wasnt hitting the hole when he rushed for 1500+ yards in 05.

you should have asked, who hits the end zone harder. believe me, betts wouldnt be the answer.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lloyd maybe you didn't watch the '05 season you just read the numbers, Brunell has never had a good bomb Santana has just been able to make incredible play after incredible play, him being out last season is what could account for our big pay threat.

or maybe i watched every game and saw that brunell could stretch the field and he did. i guess santanas skills fell off this year? or that brunell was much more capable of executing a deep pass in 05, whereas he threw 75% of his passes less than 10 yards this season. saying santana made a bunch of incredible plays is just silly. brunell threw deep passes in 05 a lot, and a lot of them were good passes. he just couldnt do it in 06.

[funguy1286]

this whole myth about betts being some pass catching champion is beyond funny. lets look at some numbers.

before 2006, betts had never caught more than 15 passes in a season. thats less than 1 pass a game. this whole silly idea that hes some receiving threat is just a joke. his numbers in 06 were inflated because brunell couldnt throw to anybody else, and if you watched the redskins that often, youd be aware of this.

portis is a better pass catcher out of the backfield. he can make more moves after the catch, and hes faster.

and lol at "hitting the hole harder". i guess portis wasnt hitting the hole when he rushed for 1500+ yards in 05.

you should have asked, who hits the end zone harder. believe me, betts wouldnt be the answer.

have you ever seen betts drop a pass?

portis not only occasionally drops passes but when he does catch it he looks clumsy doing so. Pass catching is NOT a forte of clinton portis. get over it.

Betts only started 8 games last year and he still had 445 recieving yards. Portis has never had more then 364 and that was in his rookie season

Career YPC:

Betts: 9.1

Portis: 8.2

Sorry, you're wrong. Next.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

have you ever seen betts drop a pass?

portis not only occasionally drops passes but when he does catch it he looks clumsy doing so. Pass catching is NOT a forte of clinton portis. get over it.

Betts only started 8 games last year and he still had 445 recieving yards. Portis has never had more then 364 and that was in his rookie season

Career YPC:

Betts: 9.1

Portis: 8.2

Sorry, you're wrong. Next.

betts played in every game, and caught a pass in every game. and his ypc is less than a yard higher. for a situational guy, that really doesnt say much.

how "clumsy" did portis look when he caught that 74 yard "pass" from brunell in the texans game? man did he looks stupid!

and for fun, lets just look at betts vs portis while gibbs has been the head coach, discounting steve spurriers 2 pass happy seasons.

betts - 7.8 YPC

portis - 7.7 YPC

oh my! almost identical! not to mention, portis has more receiving TDs than betts does, and less fumbles receiving than betts does.

but by all means, please keep telling me how clumsy he looks catching a football.

[BMahoney]

Lloyd you mention Santana's skills falling off this season, and yes that is true becaue he was injured no longer could brunell just heave the ball past the secondary and hope that Santana could outrun everybody. I make the statement again Brunell has never been good at the bomb, Santana made him look good at it.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lloyd you mention Santana's skills falling off this season, and yes that is true becaue he was injured no longer could brunell just heave the ball past the secondary and hope that Santana could outrun everybody. I make the statement again Brunell has never been good at the bomb, Santana made him look good at it.

we'll just disagree on that, because in 05 brunell successfully completed multiple bomb passes. its sad that you completely discredit brunell for any of that success. im a blatant brunell basher, but i give credit where its due, and in 05 he was due some credit. moss isnt that great of a receiver, were all aware of that. hes 5'10, he cant just leap into the air and get the ball like randy moss or plaxico burress. brunell could stretch the field with moss in 05, and defenses had to cater to that, unlike in 06, where we were incapable of stretching the field at all, until campbell arrived.

[funguy1286]

betts played in every game, and caught a pass in every game. and his ypc is less than a yard higher. for a situational guy, that really doesnt say much.

how "clumsy" did portis look when he caught that 74 yard "pass" from brunell in the texans game? man did he looks stupid!

and for fun, lets just look at betts vs portis while gibbs has been the head coach, discounting steve spurriers 2 pass happy seasons.

betts - 7.8 YPC

portis - 7.7 YPC

oh my! almost identical! not to mention, portis has more receiving TDs than betts does, and less fumbles receiving than betts does.

but by all means, please keep telling me how clumsy he looks catching a football.

WOW clinton portis caught a SHOVEL PASS and didnt look clumsy? he MUST be the best pass catching running back in the whole wide world!!!!

if portis cant catch a shovel pass without looking clumsy there would be no point of him even playing football. Now if you actually watch the games you will see portis having trouble with passes that are actually thrown further than a yard.

[BMahoney]

Im actually not a Brunell basher what soever your welcome to read previous posts, and I will give credit where credit is due Moss was the reason for Brunell's success at the long ball. As far as moss isnt that great of a reciever you must be out of your ****ing mind. So when ARE made the poor decision to throw the ball in the giants game last season and moss was in double coverage and had to change directions to catch the ball he was an OK reciever. Moss is a top notch reciever in this league when he is healthy.

[funguy1286]

we'll just disagree on that, because in 05 brunell successfully completed multiple bomb passes. its sad that you completely discredit brunell for any of that success. im a blatant brunell basher, but i give credit where its due, and in 05 he was due some credit. moss isnt that great of a receiver, were all aware of that. hes 5'10, he cant just leap into the air and get the ball like randy moss or plaxico burress. brunell could stretch the field with moss in 05, and defenses had to cater to that, unlike in 06, where we were incapable of stretching the field at all, until campbell arrived.

since campbell stretched the field so much:rolleyes:

Jason did not complete one bomb all year. His 66 yard completion was a 15 yard pass that cooley took to the house. come on man watch the games.