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NBA "best coaches" legitimate claim or a result of having Great Players?

SkinsTerps26

By SkinsTerps26
in The Tailgate

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SkinsTerps26

SkinsTerps26

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No disrespect the any of these guys, i am just bringing up a question.

The top winningest coaches in the playoffs are (not in order)

Phil Jackson,

Red Auerbach,

Pat Riley,

Gregg Popovich

Jerry Sloan

Are these guys in fact great coaches or did they profit from having GREAT players on their teams??

Phil - MJ, Kobe/Shaq

Gregg Popovich (Tim Duncan, David Robinson)

Red - Bill Russell (i personally think Red is the one of the few that this doesn't apply to)

Pat Riley (Kareem, Magic, Shaq, DWade)

Jerry Sloan (Stockton and Malone) - very underrated

An early example of this is Mike Brown. His all time playoff winning percentage of .633 is 4TH ALL TIME!

Now, I personally think 100 playoff victories by Larry Brown is more impressive than having Phils luck.

Thoughts?

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Ghost of

Ghost of

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All of the recent champions ran into a wall in the playoffs and needed good coaching or a good new system to make the jump.

After all, look at Golden State. They were awful. They got themselves a few good players during the year and they use journeyman Matt Barnes who shows IN THAT SYSTEM he has real talent.

Bulls had Collins and they couldn't beat Detroit. Some more maturation for Pip and Grant ANd Phil ensured titles.

Same with the Lakers (though some of that COULD be attributed to maturation of Kobe and even Shaq's passing.)

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Chachie

Chachie

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If you guys want to see a coach who does a whole heck of a lot with mediocre players, tune in to a Chicago Bulls game next season. Scott Skiles has had Ben Wallace for one season. Other than that, no big names. He's made the playoffs the past 3 years and this season swept Riley's BIG talent Heat. That guy built a true team out of rookies and journeymen.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

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Phil Jackson's the biggest fraud in NBA coaching, IMO.

Yeah, he does a good job of managing egos and whatnot but having Jordan out there was like having a coach/general on the floor. Hell, anyone of us could coach a Jordan led team with decent talent around and make noise in the playoffs...

But the real fraud here is that the vaunted "Triangle Offense" that Jackson gets credit for isn't even his creation. It's his assistants creation.

Having two of the most dominant if not the most dominant players of the past 20 years...please.

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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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This is pretty self-explainitory. You need good players, and you need to utilize them to their fullest potential. Calling the right plays at the right time, matching up with a vengence, whipping your players in to shape. Coaches are the men to run to when you're desperate. They are the spine of your team. The players are the organs, so to speak. :)

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DieselPwr44

DieselPwr44

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Hell the same could be said for Auerbach as he had Russell and all those other greats on his teams.

Except there's a BIG difference between Auerbach and Jackson.

Red actually did the scouting, found those players and successfully recruited them on his team and/or made the trade that brought them there.

When Jackson actually builds a team from scratch and then coaches it to multiple championships,that'll be the first time he's ever done that.

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stwasm

stwasm

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Red Auerbach once said:

"One, you gotta get talent.That's part of the job. Two,when you get it you gotta make sure you don't screw it up. A lot of coaches...I mean a lot... Take great talent and screw it up."

As much as I hate the Celtics, Auerbach won all of his titles with different players. He had a system that worked and got the most from the talent he had.

Also, didn't he coach the Washington "Capitols" basketball team? Your sig said "Redskins."

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skinfan2k

skinfan2k

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Phil Jackson's the biggest fraud in NBA coaching, IMO.

Yeah, he does a good job of managing egos and whatnot but having Jordan out there was like having a coach/general on the floor. Hell, anyone of us could coach a Jordan led team with decent talent around and make noise in the playoffs...

But the real fraud here is that the vaunted "Triangle Offense" that Jackson gets credit for isn't even his creation. It's his assistants creation.

Having two of the most dominant if not the most dominant players of the past 20 years...please.

the lakers despite all their problems had a winning record and could have beaten the suns last year in teh playoffs after up 3-1. how bout when jordan left and the bulls still winning 50 games?

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SkinsTerps26

SkinsTerps26

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As much as I hate the Celtics, Auerbach won all of his titles with different players. He had a system that worked and got the most from the talent he had.

Also, didn't he coach the Washington "Capitols" basketball team? Your sig said "Redskins."

I disagree. He won all but 1 of his NBA titles with Russell in the line up. He had a great mind for basketball. He did make the move to get Russell in the draft and fill up the squad with great talent, but it was obvious that it was all Russell. Even after Red Retired and Bill Russell acted as the "Player Coach" they went on to 2 more titles in 3 years.

Bill Russell 11 Championships in 13 years says it all.

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DieselPwr44

DieselPwr44

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Also, didn't he coach the Washington "Capitols" basketball team? Your sig said "Redskins."

Before the Capitols came into being,The Redskins,Eagles and Giants had their own basketball teams in the offseason that would go around playing against each other to earn extra income.

Red was working out(at Bethesda Naval Hospital,Red was assigned their during his tour of duty) with Fred Davis(starting tackle for the Skins back then) and Davis found out that Red coached high school ball so he asked Red if he'd coach their team. Red said yes and never went back to coaching/teaching at the high school level.

So the Washington Redskins and Fred Davis got Red started coaching professional athletes. Pretty neat,huh? :)

BTW, they played their home games in Uline Arena. Mike Uline saw Red coaching the Redskins and asked him if he'd coach the Capitols in the new Basketball Association of America.

The rest is history.....:)

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SkinsTerps26

SkinsTerps26

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The curse of coaching a great team - you win championships, which make great players great, which in turn leads to people saying 'well of course he won championships, he had all those great players.' See: Joe Torre.

Mike Brown is the fourth winningest coach in the playoffs.... End of Story.

Lebron is the only reason that dude has ever sniffed the playoffs.

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DieselPwr44

DieselPwr44

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Coaching does have something to do with it.

Why couldn't Collins win with Jordan?

Del Harris with Shaq and Kobe?

Larry Brown gets Detroit a championship but Flip Saunders can't get the same team back to the Finals.

You have to have talent to win in any sport but to say that coaches are basically just there for the ride is kind of crazy. :2cents:

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