DIY Home Improvement Thread..

[Elessar78]

One of my next big projects is a to pave my gravel driveway which is about 40 feet long and two car widths. We live in a cold climate with a lot of snow, so I love the gravel—it's very functional as I get a ton of traction even if we don't shovel. But the wife thinks otherwise.

 

Does anyone have advice on concrete vs black top? Any concern about freeze thaw cycles? Which would be more economical in the long-term (10-20 years)? 

 

Are either of these DIY projects or best to let a pro handle it?

[Popeman38]

One of my next big projects is a to pave my gravel driveway which is about 40 feet long and two car widths. We live in a cold climate with a lot of snow, so I love the gravel—it's very functional as I get a ton of traction even if we don't shovel. But the wife thinks otherwise.

 

Does anyone have advice on concrete vs black top? Any concern about freeze thaw cycles? Which would be more economical in the long-term (10-20 years)? 

 

Are either of these DIY projects or best to let a pro handle it?

As someone who has had both asphalt and concrete driveways -- go with concrete.  Less maintenance, lasts longer, doesn't get as nasty in the summer, is a smoother surface for shoveling snow, stands up to the elements better.

 

Of course the down side is the price.

[Elessar78]

As someone who has had both asphalt and concrete driveways -- go with concrete.  Less maintenance, lasts longer, doesn't get as nasty in the summer, is a smoother surface for shoveling snow, stands up to the elements better.

 

Of course the down side is the price.

I have a good situation for concrete, where the contractor is willing to do it in sections. What about freeze-thaw causing cracks in concrete?

[mjah]

My advice is exactly the opposite. Go with asphalt.  Concrete shows every oil drip, grease stain and blemish.  It isn't black in color and therefore doesn't heat in the sun during the winter to give you that clutch "free" snow/ice melt after minor storms.  So you'll be out there toiling away after each 3" squall, while the rest of the neighborhood is letting nature do that work for them. Clearing snow also can be a pain due to the shovel blade catching in the expansion joints, which over 20 years you likely will have to replace twice (at low cost and effort though, cheaper than topcoating asphalt).  Snowblowers don't seem to catch those joints but a shovel will catch the damned things every time.

 

Concrete's longevity means you're likely to get at least a little bit of cracking over the years, no matter how well the joints are laid out.  Ever see a cracked or patched sidewalk?  That's how your driveway could look someday.  Asphalt takes a topcoat every so often to seal and refresh, but that's not done so frequently with concrete due to the higher cost and annoyance.  So each little piece of tree crap and petroleum-based motorist lifestyle evidence that absorbs into your white driveway is going to be there for quite a while, even if you get out there for hours with the pressure washer every year or so to blast contaminants out of the concrete.

 

This is just my opinion, but a nice dark asphalt driveway just makes a house look better too.  Concrete driveways tend to be sterile, blotchy, and (despite the high initial cost) cheap looking.  They also distract from the look of the home, either by being new-looking and bright white or by being old looking and yellowed/ugly.  An asphalt driveway blends better visually and lets your home/landscaping be the elements of the property that really "pop" and draw the eye.  I personally find it to be a very rare occurrence when a concrete driveway adds to a home's curb appeal instead of detracting from it.  Something to think about for resale value, as the choice of driveway material is likely permanent.

 

Asphalt definitely is cheaper to own, once you already own it.  But let's be honest... assuming you have a competent installer, the initial cost is overwhelmingly the greatest driveway cost you will ever incur.  Neither concrete nor asphalt are major annual cost drivers for home ownership.

[Popeman38]

If the contractor uses the proper mixture and ensures enough air entrainment, you should be fine. Seal it every 5 years and you should have a driveway that lasts 50 years.

A simple power wash will remove any oil or tree sap

My advice is exactly the opposite. Go with asphalt.  Concrete shows every oil drip, grease stain and blemish.  It isn't black in color and therefore doesn't heat in the sun during the winter to give you that clutch "free" snow/ice melt after minor storms.  So you'll be out there toiling away after each 3" squall, while the rest of the neighborhood is letting nature do that work for them. Clearing snow also can be a pain due to the shovel blade catching in the expansion joints, which over 20 years you likely will have to replace twice (at low cost and effort though, cheaper than topcoating asphalt).  Snowblowers don't seem to catch those joints but a shovel will catch the damned things every time.

 

Concrete's longevity means you're likely to get at least a little bit of cracking over the years, no matter how well the joints are laid out.  Ever see a cracked or patched sidewalk?  That's how your driveway could look someday.  Asphalt takes a topcoat every so often to seal and refresh, but that's not done so frequently with concrete due to the higher cost and annoyance.  So each little piece of tree crap and petroleum-based motorist lifestyle evidence that absorbs into your white driveway is going to be there for quite a while, even if you get out there for hours with the pressure washer every year or so to blast contaminants out of the concrete.

 

This is just my opinion, but a nice dark asphalt driveway just makes a house look better too.  Concrete driveways tend to be sterile, blotchy, and (despite the high initial cost) cheap looking.  They also distract from the look of the home, either by being new-looking and bright white or by being old looking and yellowed/ugly.  An asphalt driveway blends better visually and lets your home/landscaping be the elements of the property that really "pop" and draw the eye.  I personally find it to be a very rare occurrence when a concrete driveway adds to a home's curb appeal instead of detracting from it.  Something to think about for resale value, as the choice of driveway material is likely permanent.

 

Asphalt definitely is cheaper to own, once you already own it.  But let's be honest... assuming you have a competent installer, the initial cost is overwhelmingly the greatest driveway cost you will ever incur.  Neither concrete nor asphalt are major annual cost drivers for home ownership.

Asphalt is cheap because it is cheap -- costs less to make, has to be maintained every 18 months, and anyone can lay it down. Concrete is expensive because it lasts forever and requires a skilled labor force to install.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Concrete cracks no matter what. Its what it is designed to do. 

 

 

Starting to hang and install cabinets this weekend. Hope everything goes well. Been without a kitchen for the last two weeks. 

[Elessar78]

Concrete cracks no matter what. Its what it is designed to do. 

Wait, what? Please explain. Why would it be designed to do that if we build buildings, bridges, zombie barriers out of it.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Wait, what? Please explain. Why would it be designed to do that if we build buildings, bridges, zombie barriers out of it.

 

Concrete has extreme compressive strength however it has little to no tensile strength. In design you help increase the tensile strength by adding steel rebar. Usually when installing sidewalk or a concrete driveway you would install steel wire mesh at the bottom of the slab. This would assist in the tension the slab experiences during your every day routine. If you think about your slab as a "U" shape. When you step or drive on the driveway you create compression forces at the top of the slap and tension at the bottom. 

 

If you went and looked at any building, sidewalk or bridge you will find cracks in slabs and beams. Im sure if you have a concrete foundation you will find small cracks in that over the years which is perfectly fine. The only way not to get cracks in concrete is by adding a ridiculous amount of rebar to it which as a result would compromise the integrity of the concrete. 

 

If you live in an area that experiences the freeze thaw process its going to crack. It may take a long time it may be little cracks but its definitely going to crack at some point. Just make sure if you do go with concrete that the contractor installs a very solid base and he compacts the hell out of it. Will make a huge difference. 

Edited May 2, 2014 by S.T.real,lights,out

[PCS]

Driveway surfaces ranked by cost,durability,and difficulty of installation,(think I posted this before). IMHO of course. 

 

Pavers: All kinds of variety in looks and textures,requires,(for the most part),little maintenance,and repair is easy. 

 

Concrete: Again. All kinds of variety with colors and such. Maintenance is a bit more than pavers but still very durable. 

 

Asphalt. Been covered before but there is variety for this surface as well. I wouldn't do it personally. 

[Elessar78]

Didn't think of pavers. Thanks. Quick look on google and I really like that look. 

[PCS]

It's a good,(even great look at times),but it takes a lot of work. The pavers themselves go down pretty easy as long as everything else before it is laid down nice and damn near perfect. It's not out of the range of a DIYer,but it does take time and patience. And lot's of prior research. 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Well just about done with a total kitchen remodel. Couldn't believe how quick and each hanging and level cabinets went. Owe my few friends that helped out big time. Was able to get the whole thing done in less than 5 hours.

 

What a difference it makes when you have friends willing to help out. You really do find out who your friends are when it comes to helping out. Will hopefully post some pics once the counter tops come in.

[Larry]

Recall once reading the expression that some people are like blisters. They show up after the work is done.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Aint that the truth Larry. lol

[Popeman38]

Hey all.  FINALLY closed on my house (new construction) and need to put up a fence, a deck, and a patio.

 

Fence:

HOA requires either a three or four board, white fence, only enclosing the rear yard to the back corners of the frame.

 

Deck: 

Tons of wiggle room here, will be installing a drainage system beneath so the space under the deck is usable in rain. Open to to composite or wood.  Deck will be off the second level, with a staircase leading down to patio (preferably).

 

Patio:

I'm thinking the patio will be concrete, whether pressed or poured. Both sides of the patio will have to have retaining walls that slope. There will need to be some drainage at the edges to funnel water away from the lowest point in the yard. Good news is there is a storm drain in the back corner of my lot similar to the below pic.  The bad news is it is nearly 40 feet from where the edge of my patio will likely be.

 

I am open to suggestions, but would like to keep the total for all 3 projects to $20k (preferable lower, but I don't have the knowledge or the time to accomplish this on my own).

Edited May 13, 2014 by Popeman38

[GoSkins0721]

Approximate sizes for each?

 

Fence - Pretty easy weekend warrior job could possibly be done in 1 weekend. Estimates from a fence company will be per foot AND additional charge for the number of gates you want. Make sure you know where you want the gates.

 

Deck - off of a second level makes this less of a DIY (at least for me). The few decks I've assisted in building were all treated wood not composite. If I did mine over, I would use wood on the floor & composite for the railings/spindles. I ended up painting ours AFTER construction and hate it every few years I need to re-do it. Power washing & staining the deck floor every couple of years is pretty painless (~3 hours of work & about $100 for material & renting the power washer).

 

Patio - I would vote against concrete, but that's just me. A decent brick/stone patio can be done for a reasonable price. We like the look of the tumbled (man made) stone. Plus, a matching stone knee wall adds to the look. Add a fireplace & you have a nice patio. I'll post a pic of mine if I can find it.

 

Before you jump into any of these, consider the annual maintenance costs (fence is usually $0) before deciding on the material. For the patio, look at plenty of examples before you decide to go one way or the other. Also consider what & where you will put things on the deck & patio (chairs, tables, lighting, electrical plugs, running water, grill, speakers, tv, etc.) in your design.  

 

Hope this helps...

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Has anyone used the rustoleum deck restore product?

[GoSkins0721]

Has anyone used the rustoleum deck restore product?

 

A friend of mine used a similar product 2-3 years ago. I would rate it a C-. The product was very, very thick. He said it didn't cover nearly as much as it was supposed to. He only did the deck & not the railings & spindles. It has a very rough texture to it that I don't like. Oh, and it was expensive.

 

I've seen the new product advertised but not actually used. From the commercials (I know, I know) it looks thinner than the product he used. If I were going to use it, I think I'd buy a treated board to test how it covers & how it looks after putting it on & letting it sit in the sun for a week or 2. Also, I'd have to give serious thought on what to use on the railings & spindles (this product, something else or nothing).

 

If you decide to use it, let us know the results.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Yea i will. My father purchased it yesterday. We got a really good deal on it. I know the owner of a hardware store so he gave me about $20 off a can. If it works out well i may buy the same thing for my deck. I will post results. Thanks

[Skinz4Life12]

Has anyone built a stackable retaining wall? (the kind without mortar)

 

I built one that is about 30 feet long and it came out nice and straight and level, however, where the two corners of the wall meet there is a gap because as you stack the blocks, each layer sets back 1-2 inches on top of the layer below it. 

 

So the first layer there is about a 2 inch gap, but by the 5th layer there is about a 10 inch gap and I'm not sure what to do about it other than stuff odd shape rocks in there and back fill it. See below:

[Popeman38]

Approximate sizes for each?

 

Fence - Pretty easy weekend warrior job could possibly be done in 1 weekend. Estimates from a fence company will be per foot AND additional charge for the number of gates you want. Make sure you know where you want the gates.

 

Deck - off of a second level makes this less of a DIY (at least for me). The few decks I've assisted in building were all treated wood not composite. If I did mine over, I would use wood on the floor & composite for the railings/spindles. I ended up painting ours AFTER construction and hate it every few years I need to re-do it. Power washing & staining the deck floor every couple of years is pretty painless (~3 hours of work & about $100 for material & renting the power washer).

 

Patio - I would vote against concrete, but that's just me. A decent brick/stone patio can be done for a reasonable price. We like the look of the tumbled (man made) stone. Plus, a matching stone knee wall adds to the look. Add a fireplace & you have a nice patio. I'll post a pic of mine if I can find it.

 

Before you jump into any of these, consider the annual maintenance costs (fence is usually $0) before deciding on the material. For the patio, look at plenty of examples before you decide to go one way or the other. Also consider what & where you will put things on the deck & patio (chairs, tables, lighting, electrical plugs, running water, grill, speakers, tv, etc.) in your design.  

 

Hope this helps...

I am thinking 8x12 for the deck (8' from door to railing, 12' wide) over a 16x32 patio.  The deck will be used, but the patio will be used more.  We have a 3 year old and the back yard is going to be used over the next 15 years.  

 

For the fence, I an thinking vinal/PVC.  My question for that is can you just pound those posts in (they are hollow) instead of having to dig?  Cause if that is the case, I will take care of the fence and save myself a grand.

[GoSkins0721]

I am thinking 8x12 for the deck (8' from door to railing, 12' wide) over a 16x32 patio.  The deck will be used, but the patio will be used more.  We have a 3 year old and the back yard is going to be used over the next 15 years.  

 

For the fence, I an thinking vinal/PVC.  My question for that is can you just pound those posts in (they are hollow) instead of having to dig?  Cause if that is the case, I will take care of the fence and save myself a grand.

 

Well, 8x12 is not that big (it's less than 100 square feet). If I were you, I'd build it bigger than you think you need. Find a deck design website & place the virtual furniture on it (plus grill, etc.) You'll see how much space that stuff takes. A couple of chairs, grill, table, umbrella stand and suddenly you have no space to enjoy a ****tail with more than 1 person.

 

Since it will be at the 2nd floor level, I'm assuming that is the main house floor where the kitchen is. If so, you will definitely want to have your grill & other things on the deck so you don't have to go up & down the stairs to the patio to cook. I keep my gas grill on my deck & my smoker on my patio. The smoker is used for long cooks that I don't have to monitor every 10 minutes.

 

That's a nice size patio. As I said, look at the patio pavers/stone as an option to concrete (which can crack). Since you have a new home, the ground around your house is going to settle for a while.

 

For the fence, I've never done a vinyl fence but I'm pretty sure you can't just push them in the ground. They have to be set in concrete. It's really not that difficult if you're the least bit handy. A 1 or 2 person power auger will make short work out of digging the holes. The work is the design & layout in your yard. Once that is all mapped out, hole digging & filling with concrete is not bad. Again, depends on the size & number of post holes. The other hard part is getting the gate right (as in designed & laid out correctly).

[Elessar78]

Has anyone built a stackable retaining wall? (the kind without mortar)

 

I built one that is about 30 feet long and it came out nice and straight and level, however, where the two corners of the wall meet there is a gap because as you stack the blocks, each layer sets back 1-2 inches on top of the layer below it. 

 

So the first layer there is about a 2 inch gap, but by the 5th layer there is about a 10 inch gap and I'm not sure what to do about it other than stuff odd shape rocks in there and back fill it. See below:

Take this FWIW, because it's not answering your question, but you should consider digging out behind your wall and filling with gravel. Otherwise there's a good chance of it pushing out. I did an informal survey of the retaining walls around my area, most are made with that block and about 60% of them are pushed out. 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Elessar78

[Skinz4Life12]

Take this FWIW, because it's not answering your question, but you should consider digging out behind your wall and filling with gravel. Otherwise there's a good chance of it pushing out. I did an informal survey of the retaining walls around my area, most are made with that block and about 60% of them are pushed out.

I back filled a lot of the wall with gravel. Mostly the bottom mad middle sections. The top I filled in with dirt. Do you think it will be okay?

[Elessar78]

If the contractor uses the proper mixture and ensures enough air entrainment, you should be fine. Seal it every 5 years and you should have a driveway that lasts 50 years.

A simple power wash will remove any oil or tree sap

Asphalt is cheap because it is cheap -- costs less to make, has to be maintained every 18 months, and anyone can lay it down. Concrete is expensive because it lasts forever and requires a skilled labor force to install.

can you give me some questiouns to ask a potential concrete contractor? To make sure he knows his stuff.