Who Would Win: Muhammad Ali vs. Chuck Liddell

[Jaded-Dragon]

Bare bones street fight? Liddell no contest. Submissions aside, Chucks kicks alone would win this fight, whether it be repeated leg kicks or a flush kick to the face. Sorry but Ali's jab won't help him much in that situation. Chuck is not a fabulous takedown kind of guy, so he doesn't have a need to eat a few jabs while trying to get inside. If he staggers Ali with a kick to the head, he will have all the time in the world to rush in and take him down.

[.Guy.]

I can't believe Liddell is winning in the poll :doh:. Some of you guys need to stop smoking those crack rocks. Watch some videos of Ali - the Thrilla in Manilla is the greatest boxing match in history. The great Ali wouldn't even let Liddell get close. One strait up jab to Liddell would cause him to lose his patience and tire himself out. Ali would win handily by using his mind games to mess with Liddell. Ali would just beat up on him and let him think he might have a chance. He would just keep him conscience long enough to keep pounding him. But seriously I can't believe you guys think some MMA fighter even has a chance, let alone win, against the greatest of all time.

[grhqofb5]

Back when Ali was champ, he actually fought a japanese wrestler under the conditions we're talking about here. Basically, the wrestler went around the ring for a few minutes kicking ali in the leg, Ali threw about 3 punches, and the fight was a complete stinker. Ali got a cut on his leg from all the kicks.

Added the video... This was really pathetic.

http://www.vsocial.com/video/?d=39466

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I can't believe Liddell is winning in the poll :doh:. Some of you guys need to stop smoking those crack rocks. Watch some videos of Ali - the Thrilla in Manilla is the greatest boxing match in history. The great Ali wouldn't even let Liddell get close. One strait up jab to Liddell would cause him to lose his patience and tire himself out. Ali would win handily by using his mind games to mess with Liddell. Ali would just beat up on him and let him think he might have a chance. He would just keep him conscience long enough to keep pounding him. But seriously I can't believe you guys think some MMA fighter even has a chance, let alone win, against the greatest of all time.

Do you think he could beat 26-1 Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emelianenko? 220 lbs and his only loss happened from getting cut on his face 17 seconds in to a match.

This isn't a boxing match. I've seen and studied the Thrilla so many times. It's on ESPN every freaking weekend. I've become numb to it. One jab to Liddell? O.K. Chuck has taken haymakers from some of the heaviest hands in the game...and a jab is gonna knock him down? He isn't Glass Joe from Punch Out! Christ. It'd be a great fight, but no jab is going to decide it. Liddell getting tired? That's also a laugher. This isn't a 15 round boxing match, it's a bare knuckle fight. There ain't no decision at the end. With these blows flying around someone will get knocked down.

[megared]

Do you think he could beat 26-1 Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emelianenko? 220 lbs and his only loss happened from getting cut on his face 17 seconds in to a match.

This isn't a boxing match. I've seen and studied the Thrilla so many times. It's on ESPN every freaking weekend. I've become numb to it. One jab to Liddell? O.K. Chuck has taken haymakers from some of the heaviest hands in the game...and a jab is gonna knock him down? He isn't Glass Joe from Punch Out! Christ. It'd be a great fight, but no jab is going to decide it. Liddell getting tired? That's also a laugher. This isn't a 15 round boxing match, it's a bare knuckle fight. There ain't no decision at the end. With these blows flying around someone will get knocked down.

The same conditions you describe would heavily favor Ali, so far as the thinner gloves that don't protect his opponent. He's fast as hell with boxing gloves, could you have imagined without?!

Ali's taken shots from Ernie Shavers, George Foreman, some of the heaviest hitters in HW history. He's had his jaw BROKEN and continued. Chuck would be too busy fending off jabs to come inside with all that foolishness. Ali in his prime was going anywhere he wanted in a ring, how exactly do you think Chuck could corner him? That aside, you can't reasonably tell me that he has the power of a, say Sonny Listen...

[.Guy.]

Do you think he could beat 26-1 Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emelianenko? 220 lbs and his only loss happened from getting cut on his face 17 seconds in to a match.

This isn't a boxing match. I've seen and studied the Thrilla so many times. It's on ESPN every freaking weekend. I've become numb to it. One jab to Liddell? O.K. Chuck has taken haymakers from some of the heaviest hands in the game...and a jab is gonna knock him down? He isn't Glass Joe from Punch Out! Christ. It'd be a great fight, but no jab is going to decide it. Liddell getting tired? That's also a laugher. This isn't a 15 round boxing match, it's a bare knuckle fight. There ain't no decision at the end. With these blows flying around someone will get knocked down.

You do remember, all (street) fights outside the ring do not involve grappling and holds. Its about who can punch faster harder and stronger. Liddell does not have a chance is ANY of those catagories. You are forgetting that Ali was the quickest HW of ALL TIME. This fight would not involve lying on the ground holding each other until one submits. This would be all out punches flying and Liddell has no chance. He wouldn't get near Ali and if you look at the competition Liddell faces it its really nothing compared to what Ali went against - Foreman, Frazier, Liston - all truly great boxers. When Ali was in his prime is when boxing was filled with most talented, strongest boxers ever. Ali was the greastest among greats. I would not hesitate to say of Liddell 26 wins, only 10 were against qaulity opponents. You are crazy to think anyone could take down Ali in his prime. Seriously, look at it. Ali was the best when boxing was in its peak, Liddell is the champ in a still growing sport that has not truly produced any greats. Its not even a question, Ali wins without a doubt - be it in in the ring, in an MMA ring, the backyard or in the alley. Ali would KILL Liddell.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

The same conditions you describe would heavily favor Ali, so far as the thinner gloves that don't protect his opponent. He's fast as hell with boxing gloves, could you have imagined without?!

Ali's taken shots from Ernie Shavers, George Foreman, some of the heaviest hitters in HW history. He's had his jaw BROKEN and continued. Chuck would be too busy fending off jabs to come inside with all that foolishness. Ali in his prime was going anywhere he wanted in a ring, how exactly do you think Chuck could corner him? That aside, you can't reasonably tell me that he has the power of a, say Sonny Listen...

You dismiss these other weapons as "foolishness" when they are in fact devistating. Just as people who have never been hit by a baseball or hit by a football player can't understand the pain involved...people misunderstand being kicked in the thigh and head. The only Clinch Ali knows is the one to buy himself time while someone hits him with NERF gloves so he can catch his breath. Chuck doesn't "corner" people. There is no ring in a street fight. There is no "ropadoping" either. Which was a great innovation by Ali, but would never work in the MMA world. Chuck is a counterpunching attack and avoid type of fighter. No way Ali could chase him down after an exchange. Chuck has a steel jaw. Nobody has ever put him to sleep and it's cuz Chuck knows when he's about to be knocked out and backs up. He's brilliant at this.

That fight with the Judo master posted a few posts ago is very telling. Whenever a fighter shakes off the crowd after being hit, you know it hurts. At the end, Ali was walking very gingerly after trying to do the shuffle earlier. The Judo fighter laid down like a wimp but he still made Ali jump on the ropes like a woman seeing a rat. I will always love Ali, but against Chuck he'd have himself a match...much less a world class heavyweight.

[f_trizzy]

Jamaica, Queens' finest...Mitch "Blood" Green:

"Chuck Liddell...hit...me. And like a sissy...a homo...he ran!"

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

You do remember, all (street) fights outside the ring do not involve grappling and holds. Its about who can punch faster harder and stronger. Liddell does not have a chance is ANY of those catagories. You are forgetting that Ali was the quickest HW of ALL TIME. This fight would not involve lying on the ground holding each other until one submits. This would be all out punches flying and Liddell has no chance. He wouldn't get near Ali and if you look at the competition Liddell faces it its really nothing compared to what Ali went against - Foreman, Frazier, Liston - all truly great boxers. When Ali was in his prime is when boxing was filled with most talented, strongest boxers ever. Ali was the greastest among greats. I would not hesitate to say of Liddell 26 wins, only 10 were against qaulity opponents. You are crazy to think anyone could take down Ali in his prime. Seriously, look at it. Ali was the best when boxing was in its peak, Liddell is the champ in a still growing sport that has not truly produced any greats. Its not even a question, Ali wins without a doubt - be it in in the ring, in an MMA ring, the backyard or in the alley. Ali would KILL Liddell.

Well, judging by your analysis, ALL street fights must be a standup punch fest. That's probably because you watch these little boys fighting each other online after school. Most MMA fighters will never waste their time fighting some schmuck who'd they destroy in the streets. That's why you never see it. Liddell is 20-3...he has defended his title against the #1 contender 6 times in a row...plus fighting grand prix tournaments which required more than 1 fight a night.

FEDOR (Heavyweight Champ) is 26-1. There is no way Ali could stand a chance against him. It'd be like an exhibition. Look, Ali may be the greatest athelete of all time...but he wasn't the greatest athelete in ALL-AROUND fighting. Using your fists only is like only using your side arm in a fight against people with assault rifles. You may be the best handgun shooter ever...but you aren't going to beat a Navy Seal using a gun with "more options".

[#98QBKiller]

* I believe in all fairness I'm not using an elite heavyweight fighter such as Fedor Emelianenko or Mirko Cro Cop.

Fedor Emelianenko is my all-time favorite fighter...man that dude is bad. Can anyone stop him? I know he lost one fight because he was bleeding too much above his eye, but I haven't really been keeping up with UFC or Pride lately.

[.Guy.]

Well, judging by your analysis, ALL street fights must be a standup punch fest. That's probably because you watch these little boys fighting each other online after school. Most MMA fighters will never waste their time fighting some schmuck who'd they destroy in the streets. That's why you never see it. Liddell is 20-3...he has defended his title against the #1 contender 6 times in a row...plus fighting grand prix tournaments which required more than 1 fight a night.

FEDOR (Heavyweight Champ) is 26-1. There is no way Ali could stand a chance against him. It'd be like an exhibition. Look, Ali may be the greatest athelete of all time...but he wasn't the greatest athelete in ALL-AROUND fighting. Using your fists only is like only using your side arm in a fight against people with assault rifles. You may be the best handgun shooter ever...but you aren't going to beat a Navy Seal using a gun with "more options".

The fact of the matter is, in Ali's prime, no one was better. Ali was the fastest, strongest and smartest boxer of all time. Liddell, is a good MMA fighter. How can you possibly think he has a chance. The only thing Liddell excels over Ali is in the fact that he has practice in grappling. But this skill would be uselss as Ali wound not let him get close enough to excercise it. Even if he were to get a grip on Ali, it would be useless, as Ali is MUCH stronger than Liddell. Liddell would be begging for mercy within 4 minutes.

[#98QBKiller]

The fact of the matter is, in Ali's prime, no one was better. Ali was the fastest, strongest and smartest boxer of all time. Liddell, is a good MMA fighter. How can you possibly think he has a chance. The only thing Liddell excels over Ali is in the fact that he has practice in grappling. But this skill would be uselss as Ali wound not let him get close enough to excercise it. Even if he were to get a grip on Ali, it would be useless, as Ali is MUCH stronger than Liddell. Liddell would be begging for mercy within 4 minutes.

Except Liddell kicks like a mule and his legs would be longer than Ali's arms which puts Ali at a big-time disadvantage.

[f_trizzy]

Fedor Emelianenko is my all-time favorite fighter...man that dude is bad. Can anyone stop him? I know he lost one fight because he was bleeding too much above his eye, but I haven't really been keeping up with UFC or Pride lately.

He beat Matt Lindland this past weekend during a BodogFight event. Lindland was giving up like 30 lbs to him though. I didn't see the fight but read Lindland almost took him down but Fedor kept holding the ropes. He eventually put Matt away with an armbar.

[.Guy.]

Except Liddell kicks like a mule and his legs would be longer than Ali's arms which puts Ali at a big-time disadvantage.

He wouldn't get close enough to kick. Ali reach > Liddels Kick

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

The fact of the matter is, in Ali's prime, no one was better. Ali was the fastest, strongest and smartest boxer of all time. Liddell, is a good MMA fighter. How can you possibly think he has a chance. The only thing Liddell excels over Ali is in the fact that he has practice in grappling. But this skill would be uselss as Ali wound not let him get close enough to excercise it. Even if he were to get a grip on Ali, it would be useless, as Ali is MUCH stronger than Liddell. Liddell would be begging for mercy within 4 minutes.

Strength isn't much of a factor if you don't know how to utilize momentum and balance. Chuck knows exactly how to put people on the ground when he has them confused. Not much strength involved most of the time...just keeping the opponent off balance. Once again, this isn't a boxing match. One mistake and you're in trouble. Chuck's awareness and judgment is pinnacle. In that video of the Judo master fighting Ali...The ref stops an easy opportunity for the master to pull a kneebar. Ali's leg was limp in between the guy's legs and the ref dove on him so he didn't hurt America's hero. I don't blame him at all. That would have done ligament damage.

This isn't a pitty patty boxing match. Being in the pocket for more than a second is risky in a bare knuckle/MMA fight. Being in the pocket in boxing isn't extremely risky at all with those gloves on. Ali would be in Chuck's territory.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

He wouldn't get close enough to kick. Ali reach > Liddels Kick

WHAT???? 6'3" to 6'2. Chuck has abnormally long arms. I don't know the reach difference, but a few inches never WON anybody a fight. Matt Serra just beat Georges St. Pierre while giving up 5" in reach. It doesn't really matter when it's 1 and done.

[.Guy.]

Strength isn't much of a factor if you don't know how to utilize momentum and balance. Chuck knows exactly how to put people on the ground when he has them confused. Not much strength involved most of the time...just keeping the opponent off balance. Once again, this isn't a boxing match. One mistake and you're in trouble. Chuck's awareness and judgment is pinnacle. In that video of the Judo master fighting Ali...The ref stops an easy opportunity for the master to pull a kneebar. Ali's leg was limp in between the guy's legs and the ref dove on him so he didn't hurt America's hero. I don't blame him at all. That would have done ligament damage.

This isn't a pitty patty boxing match. Being in the pocket for more than a second is risky in a bare knuckle/MMA fight. Being in the pocket in boxing isn't extremely risky at all with those gloves on. Ali would be in Chuck's territory.

Your talking of Ali as he is some journey man boxer has never won anything. Your trying to say Ali doesn't know what balance is. Ali was the master of balace and strength. That judo match wasn't even legit. Ali had boxing gloves and was in a ring, how can you compare to that a street fight. You keep forgetting Ali was the greatest boxer ever... you don't get that acknowldgement without having skills. Ali knew exactly what to do get a win. I can't fathom how you think Liddell would come out on top.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Your talking of Ali as he is some journey man boxer has never won anything. Your trying to say Ali doesn't know what balance is. Ali was the master of balace and strength. That judo match wasn't even legit. Ali had boxing gloves and was in a ring, how can you compare to that a street fight. You keep forgetting Ali was the greatest boxer ever... you don't get that acknowldgement without having skills. Ali knew exactly what to do get a win. I can't fathom how you think Liddell would come out on top.

I respect your opinion and you are right. Ali is the master of balance with fist fighting. And while he didn't land one punch against the Judo guy, it may have been a different story if both of them were allowed to punch. I don't think the Judo guy was allowed to strike. Didn't look like it anyway. Slapped some kicks in there to stop him from shuffling. Looked a little gingerly at the end there. But in reality I made this poll because it'd be an incredibly interesting fight. Who knows what would happen. Ali rules, and I will look up to him for life. But same goes for Liddell.

[.Guy.]

I respect your opinion and you are right. Ali is the master of balance with fist fighting. And while he didn't land one punch against the Judo guy, it may have been a different story if both of them were allowed to punch. I don't think the Judo guy was allowed to strike. Didn't look like it anyway. Slapped some kicks in there to stop him from shuffling. Looked a little gingerly at the end there. But in reality I made this poll because it'd be an incredibly interesting fight. Who knows what would happen. Ali rules, and I will look up to him for life. But same goes for Liddell.

So the conclusion is thats there is no way to determine the winner. They have such different styles that there is no way to tell who would come out on top. Well, anyways, if you have half a brain, its gotta be Ali . I don't know, I was raised to love Ali and I am a huge huge fan. It's blashphemy for me to consider him losing in anything. I have to meet the man before I die.

----

Oh and btw, my sig is better :laugh:

[Pedro]

An MMA punch and boxing punch are two different things. Boxers punch harder for a reason, that being they plant their feet. Plant your feet against someone who can kick (and there are no rules against knee kicks) and your knee is gonna pop before you get into hand range.

Both guys would have a puncher's chance. Both guys would also have mashed up hands because they cannot stand up to the impact of hitting someones head as hard as these guys do (they may aim for the jaw but hit a forehead with your bare knuckles and see what I mean). Any guy with half decent ground skills who is big enough to not be thrown around by Ali would beat him if they can grab him before taking a shot. Any guy taking a bare knuckle Ali punch to the jaw will go down.

On any given Sunday...

That being said your average Joe in the street would be better in steet fights if he were trained in ground fighting than boxing. MMA shows us you can be rubbish in stand up and still win, but you have to be at least competent on the ground to win consistently.

Knowledge > skill (unless luck takes a hand)

[ChampSkinsFanatic]

Rickson Gracie would beat both of them, Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the best fighting style. Anybody who considers themself a true fighter has to have some form of Gracie Jiu Jitsu in his or her arsenal. All that boxing I learned is nothing against martial arts, even though I love Ali I say the Liddel dude wins because he probably has some form of Gracie's Jiu Jitsu. Boxing wise Ali would kill him. All this MMA is starting to make boxing look stupid.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Rickson Gracie would beat both of them, Gracie Jiu Jitsu is the best fighting style. Anybody who considers themself a true fighter has to have some form of Gracie Jiu Jitsu in his or her arsenal. All that boxing I learned is nothing against martial arts, even though I love Ali I say the Liddel dude wins because he probably has some form of Gracie's Jiu Jitsu. Boxing wise Ali would kill him. All this MMA is starting to make boxing look stupid.

Like I said in the MMA thread, Rickson was the fairy tale of the Gracie family. The Gracies were always full of themselves until they got their asses handed to them. Rickson only faught in other grappling tournaments when he was compiling his oh-so-sacred record. Jiu Jitsu is an artform that requires the fighter to get past the standup first. Kickboxing is the most common form of fighting among elite fighters in MMA. Granted, Jiu Jitsu is an extremely important fascet of fighting, it shouldn't be deemed "the best fighting style." Rickson was also a middleweight. Which is around the 160 mark. I'd love to see him get in the ring with Anderson Silva, the middleweight champ of the world. Silva would make Rickson's ego crawl back to Rio De Jinero.

And another thing. The reason the Gracies had a lot of success during that time period was because Jiu Jitsu was a new artform that only they knew. They are brilliant for coming up with it, but the secret is out. And it's been out for a while now.

As far as Chuck's Jiu Jitsu. It's there, he just uses it to combat a takedown. His sprawl is one of the best ever, and he's popped right up from guys that have decades of Jiu Jitsu training. His amazing knack for being able to do this would mean trouble for anybody that doesn't know the science of grappling.

[Chump Bailey]

To me, it all boils down to the following:

Chuck's forte is standing up and going for the knock-out while trading blows. That is his style and that is what he prefers. The guy is an awesome fighter without question and I have seen several of his fights.

But, Chuck is going to be able to exchange blows with Ali? Ali has taken punches from Sonny Liston, George Foreman and Joe Frazier - he couldn't take a punch from Chuck? Come on...

Hypotheticals aside, kicks, martial arts and the like - this will start and end with each fighter squaring off and trading punches - IMO.

Winner Ali...

[afparent]

I'll let you guys debate who will win, but please, please, do not put Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson in the same class!!! It is an insult to the Greatest of All Time!!!

[Destino]

If it was fought under MMA rules... Ali wouldn't stand a chance. Lesser fighter then Liddell would be able to beat an Ali. The problem isn't Ali being a bad fighter the problem is that all his tricks would be useless. Fighting boxers is done simply by taking them down and then pounding on the ground where they have no experience or training to defend themselves.

if you think Ali would dance around all day you're nuts. MMA fighter train to counter that. The only way to avoid a take down is to train to do so, I seriously doubt Ali trained daily to avoid take downs.