At what point will you believe in Gibbs again?

[aejm1400]

I never stopped believing in Gibbs.

Not now, not ever.

Now Snyder, that is a different story.

I actually started to believe in Snyder because of Gibbs.

I still believe in the coach Gibbs, just don't like the CEO Gibbs as much.

[Tarhog]

The Pats practice something we do not - the draft. They keep their draft picks and often accumulate more when they lose talent.

It's great that we get all these top-tier players in FA, but we do so at the expense of the mid-level talent that will act as a back-up to the stars when they are injured. If you look at our D-line you see that over the past two years when the starters are injured we tend to lose. Look at 2005 and what happened during the middle of the year when Griffin and Salave'a got hurt, and then look at the end of the year when they were healthy. Look at the difference in our secondary the past few years when Springs was hurt compared to when healthy. The reality is we don't have the backups to get the job done.

Yes, I will give Gibbs a pass on the coaching part. I wonder how people forget or disregard that we went to the playoffs just one year ago, and but for key injuries to people like Brunell and the receiving corps, could have gone farther than we did. You criticize Brunell, but when helathy he was the best guy we had over the past three years. As for Ramsey, you are wasting your fingers typing if you are even suggesting to me that he was worth a damn.

This is the same coach who engineered the five-game streak to get us in the playoffs. It is the same coach who refocused the team last year offensively and we saw a better performance, especially in the run game.

This team ended the season in 06 better than when they started. And if they had possessed the defense they did in 05 (worse ONLY because of injury and the loss of key personnel) they probably would have returned to the playoffs. In fact four wins would assured it.

I absolutely agree on your point about the 'mid-level' talent, but again, Gibbs is ultimately responsible for those decisions as well. You're off the mark regarding how I felt about Brunell. Brunell should have been the starter going into that season IMHO - once he got over the injuries from the prior year (where he threw a lot of balls in the dirt), he was the more reliable choice (as he showed that year). I've never been a Ramsey supporter (other than rooting for him when he was in there for obvious reasons). My point is, GibbsI would never have caved to pressure to adopt Ramsey as the starter - he'd have stuck to his guns. I have the same concern over what I hear from him with JC - is he really sold on him or is it just that he feels its 'fair' to give him the job for now. To a degree, as happens with a lot of men as they get older, I think Gibbs has mellowed, maybe to the point where he can't make the tough decisions necessary to win. I'm not discounting his leadership abilities - I do give him credit for the 05 playoff run. However, you can't take last year and not lay it on Joe's doorstep (he'd agree with me). We had injuries, but not devastating ones - just like every other team in the league. I have to wonder why Gibbs brings in an Al Saunders - again, GibbsI never makes that move. Why? Because he's ****-sure he doesn't need the help, and wants control over the offense. I like Saunders, and maybe it'll turn out to be a great decision down the road. But it doomed us in 2006. And I found it a very puzzling move that didn't seem very 'Gibbs-like'.

[Tarhog]

These two quotes are contradictory. Ramsey was pulled because he the results weren't what they needed to be, not even close. Unless you consider a terrible pre-season and a brief period where he lost the ball three times, leading us to the promise land. Ramsey didn't produce and he was replaced. I would say, in this regard, Gibbs is exactly the same as the first time around.

Again, I was never a Ramsey supporter. My point was, Gibbs clearly DIDN'T believe Ramsey was the best man for the job heading into that season - yet he acted as if he did. Every word he spoke was in support of Ramsey as the starter. I think he felt both FO and fan pressure to go with him, something I don't think a younger Joe Gibbs does. I'm GLAD he went with his gut, but had it not been for the shot Ramsey takes in the Chicago opener, I think we go a major portion of 2005 with a starter even Joe Gibbs doesn't believe in.

I think thats where Gibbs II is a changed coach. I hope the rumors of him seizing some control back in the offense last year (going back to a commitment to the power running game) indicate Gibbs realizes he can't cede absolute control and expect to win.

[iceman330]

I never stopped believing in Gibbs as a coach. For me, the question is when will I belive in the entire front office again?

[mi6]

Coach Gibbs was a great coach.

But, lets not forget that he was aided by some of the best in acheiving that status. His coaching staff include some really talented folks - Joe Bugle, Richie Petitibone ... these guys helped shape the talent, and extracted the most of the players in tough games.

Don't forget, during Coach Gibbs first tenure with the Skins the notion of "salary cap" was non-existent! This meant a generous owner like Cooke could open the check book, and get the player they wanted.

Bobby Beathard as GM, helped orchestrate some great deals, and helped in identifying talent...

However, despite being a Coach Gibbs fan, I am disappointed that Coach Gibbs hasn't been able to cope or adapt to the changing trends in the NFL.

His attitudes towards grooming young players in questionable. His outright preference for over-the-hill veterans is ridiculous. His offense isn't what it used to be, and he hasn't made adjustments to make it potent.

The team has talent on paper, and great coaches. It's his job to use them effectively.

I will start believing in Gibbs, when the team plays consistently. When we don't mortgage our future by making idiotic trades, or making outrageous Free Agent signings! Winning is a must ... and, it starts with us defeating Dallas, New York, and Philly. Yes! That's when I will start believing that in Gibbs, and a turn around in the Skin progress.:point2sky

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Never lost faith but fact is he is not the same coach he was before he came back. Even in 05 he was not in his grove. He never got his "swagger" back. We are one of the most unorginized teams when it comes to big decicsisions. Time managment is still a issue. Hopefully this year things fall into place.

[Skinsfor4]

I still believe in Coach Gibbs!He will be a winner in whatever he does.A second year QB probably isnt what he envisioned though.

[dfos81]

he has been and always will be a winner. A few losing seasons even happens to the best. I can't wait to see us turn this thing around w/ Gibbs.

[dREDSKIN4LIFE]

I didn't think I'd ever say this to another Skins fan, but with a comment like that I doubt your loyalty to the team. You need to shut your mouth and check yourself, stop bringing your negative attitude here. Dan Marino never won a Superbowl, he should be kicked out right? He has THREE RINGS, how many coaches have 3? Not many. He is one of the best coaches of all time, who was an offensive genius, many of the plays you see now, he drew up 20 + years ago with his own hands.

Thank GOD, someone hit the nail on the head! I was getting sick to my stomach reading all the negative remarks about the legendary JOE GIBBS! This is a man who is beyond reproach! He has been a winner at everything he does to include football, nascar, and let's not forget a devoted family man. What he has accomplished is nothing short of extraordinary and that can never be taken away! I served 14 years in the Marine Corps, and I guess that all of my 23 some odd medals and decorations, after 4 tours in Iraq should be revoked, should I decide to re-enlist, but not be quite as effective as I was the first time around! I'll tell you what...YOU come and take them away!!!

Joe Gibbs spot in Canton reflects his incredible and consistant performance as a coach and a person. It must have been nothing short of spectacular, since other standout players/men like ART MONK have YET to earn the distinction! He EARNED his place in history, and that can not, nor should it ever be taken away. I remember running alongside that "super bowl bus" loaded with OUR conquering heros, rolling through downtown D.C., and being overwhelmed with the sheer electricity and energy of OUR (yes, I'm born and raised IN D.C.) city that day! (Hell, everyone was let off work that day, like it was a federal holiday!) I want that feeling again! I BELIEVE that JOE GIBBS can bring that feeling back, and IF he can't, then I will ALWAYS love him and OUR Redskins, for taking me there 3 times already!!!

I hear the cowpukes are looking for fans, why don't you maggots switch jersey's and make room for more FANatics who truely bleed BURGUNDY and GOLD!!!:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I have noticed a trend of people on this board who claim to be for the "team" but never support anybody on it.

Maybe that's because nobody in this organization has done anything worth supporting in fifteen years. The last time this team did anything worthwhile was January of 1991. The only person currently associated with this team now who was around then is Joe Gibbs; and he hasn't been much more than a shadow of his former self at this point.

[Tarhog]

Thank GOD, someone hit the nail on the head! I was getting sick to my stomach reading all the negative remarks about the legendary JOE GIBBS! This is a man who is beyond reproach! He has been a winner at everything he does to include football, nascar, and let's not forget a devoted family man. What he has accomplished is nothing short of extraordinary and that can never be taken away! I served 14 years in the Marine Corps, and I guess that all of my 23 some odd medals and decorations, after 4 tours in Iraq should be revoked, should I decide to re-enlist, but not be quite as effective as I was the first time around! I'll tell you what...YOU come and take them away!!!

Joe Gibbs spot in Canton reflects his incredible and consistant performance as a coach and a person. It must have been nothing short of spectacular, since other standout players/men like ART MONK have YET to earn the distinction! He EARNED his place in history, and that can not, nor should it ever be taken away. I remember running alongside that "super bowl bus" loaded with OUR conquering heros, rolling through downtown D.C., and being overwhelmed with the sheer electricity and energy of OUR (yes, I'm born and raised IN D.C.) city that day! (Hell, everyone was let off work that day, like it was a federal holiday!) I want that feeling again! I BELIEVE that JOE GIBBS can bring that feeling back, and IF he can't, then I will ALWAYS love him and OUR Redskins, for taking me there 3 times already!!!

I hear the cowpukes are looking for fans, why don't you maggots switch jersey's and make room for more FANatics who truely bleed BURGUNDY and GOLD!!!:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

I appreciate your passion, but I think its a little misplaced. Theres a big difference in saying 'Joe Gibbs is an incredible human being' (something I'd agree with) and giving him an absolute pass in his 2nd coaching go round.

I hope he can and will return the Redskins to glory. But he's been average since his return (my opinion).

[SkinsNatsFan]

I appreciate your passion, but I think its a little misplaced. Theres a big difference in saying 'Joe Gibbs is an incredible human being' (something I'd agree with) and giving him an absolute pass in his 2nd coaching go round.

I hope he can and will return the Redskins to glory. But he's been average since his return (my opinion).

Tarhog, their passion seems to me to be directed more at MSF's feeling that Joe Gibbs's place in the Hall of Fame should be re-addressed if he does not succeed this time around. Personally, I find that position ridiculous, and I don't take MSF seriously enough to react much those posts.

There's a huge difference between saying Joe Gibbs has been average since his return and questioning whether or not he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[Toast20622]

I have faith in Gibbs as a head coach. That hasn't changed. I wish he would assume more control of the team in terms of play calling and general decision making.

As a personnel guy? I don't know. With our set up, it's hard to say who gets the credit and blame for personnel decisions.

But I still have faith in Gibbs as a coach and HIS offense (as opposed to Saunders).

Hail,

H

"I wish he would assume more control of the team in terms of play calling and general decision making".

I totally agree.... Let Coach Gibbs do what he does best, "COACH" the team, call the plays, take "info" from Sanders and Williams !!!!!! He is the COACH!!!!!!

:notworthy

[Tarhog]

Tarhog, their passion seems to me to be directed more at MSF's feeling that Joe Gibbs's place in the Hall of Fame should be re-addressed if he does not succeed this time around. Personally, I find that position ridiculous, and I don't take MSF seriously enough to react much those posts.

There's a huge difference between saying Joe Gibbs has been average since his return and questioning whether or not he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

I agree - you can't diminish what he's accomplished in the past.

[Ghost of]

I don't have much to add because Tarhog already stated my feelings succinctly. What I will add is that in spite of Gibbs apologists leaping to his defense (even insulting people's intelligence before this thread really got going) how can one look at all the blown timeouts, mishandled clocks, gametime, offseason and in-season adjustments and not see a lot of mistakes?

And as for 2005, if the defense didn't become God MC Jay-Hova in those last few games when it came to causing turnovers and if we didn't face Ryan Fitzpatrick and Mike McMahon and didn't have Antonio Brown to win us the ARizona game, we'd have sat at home then too.

2004 was awful and it's pretty clear that Lav Coles was a little better than how he was used (and the awful QB didnt help and banged him up the entire year) and Portis has been misused for most of his time here. I'm sure everyone knows how I feel about the QB situation but I STILL BELIEVE that had Ramsey been inserted at the end of 2005, we may have actually reached the NFC title game or at least shown more impressively on offense vs. Tampa AND Seattle. Ramsey, mediocre starter or not, is better than Brunell's 75% WOEFUL performance rating in DC.

I've also noticed some disturbing leadership patterns as we've watched Coles, Lavar and Arch go through some serious conflicts with coaches and the organization. All MORESO under Gibbs or Turner.

[GSF]

I think Gibbs has made some costly mistakes so far, but I still believe in him. I think he's going to turn it around this season, and eventually win another Superbowl.

[worstSeat]

I'll give Gibbs a pass his first year or two, but will really start believing in him again once he ends the Skins' drought in the playoffs.

Oh, wait, whaddya know?

Goodness folk [who didn't answer you never stopped believing], what do you expect? In these days of salary caps and "fair" scheduling, coaches can only do so much to get outside of the "parity" the league's forcing down everyone's throats. If you ask me, even as a Pirates fan in a league of big spenders [MLB; not a Tampa reference], I'd rather see the salary cap removed from the NFL and allow those with owners with deep pockets to win out again. At least then you get known commodities, true dynasties, and real rivalries. This new NFL is crap.

httr, etc.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Joe Gibbs = Hall of Fame Coach. Nuff said. If Bill Walsh of Jimmie "BulletHead" Johnson came back today, would they be successful or would the NFL's evolution have passed THEM by? Maybe in JJ's case -- he certainly didn't impress anyone with his stint @ Miami, but Walsh would find a way to win. So will Joe. Hell, he already has. Outside of two years ago, when was our last trip to the playoffs? '01? And before that?!?

C'mon, people -- want the Norv back at the helm?

HTTR

[BigRedskinDaddy]

Oops -- sorry about the dupe. Need to be a little more patient w/this wireless network, hehehe...<sheesh>

[Justsomeguy]

Lets see a year not plagued with injuries and we will have as good a shot as anyone

[JimmiJo]

I don't have much to add because Tarhog already stated my feelings succinctly. What I will add is that in spite of Gibbs apologists leaping to his defense (even insulting people's intelligence before this thread really got going)

I was insulting the concept that Gibbs' place in the HOF should be reconsidered, which is stupid beyond words.

And you nailed it - I am a Gibbs apologist. That's just how I roll...

[skins4life326]

:jerk: :jerk: :jerk:

couldn't have said it better myself....

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I was insulting the concept that Gibbs' place in the HOF should be reconsidered, which is stupid beyond words.

I'd love to work for some of you folks.

Apparently, so long as my initial results in whatever job I did for you were exceptional, I could go on a leave of absence, and do nothing upon my return without any consequences.

That's what it appears to me that you folks are saying.

[jrfriedm]

So the question is this: At what point will you believe again? What if we make it to the playoffs at 10-6 again? What will it take to win you people back?

I never, ever, ever stopped believing in Joe Gibbs and I never will

[SkinsNatsFan]

I'd love to work for some of you folks.

Apparently, so long as my initial results in whatever job I did for you were exceptional, I could go on a leave of absence, and do nothing upon my return without any consequences.

That's what it appears to me that you folks are saying.

:laugh: Sure, I've always equated getting a job with being inducted into the Hall of Fame.