At what point will you believe in Gibbs again?

[jayneal7]

Joe Gibbs will turn it around. The man has been blessed by God with a championship-waiting-to-happen-at-any-moment-mojo.

See 3 SB trophies.

See 3 NASCAR titles.

Never doubt the man.

[jayneal7]

I would suggest that ANY player, or coach who returns to the NFL in any capacity after being inducted into the HOF should have to be re-elected to the Hall after they leave the game again. So far as I'm concerned, Joe Gibbs has seriously damaged his reputation and HOF credentials with the last three seasons.

Obviously the Super Bowl appearances and victories IN THE PAST are still part of his history. Unfortunately he's not living up to that level of expectation this time around. A reputation is much easier to tear down than it is to build up, or to repair once it's damaged. I'd suggest that Gibbs' reputation had been seriously damaged in the last three years, and I don't see it being repaired any time soon.

:jerk: :jerk: :jerk:

[CapitalDefense]

When we are feared again.....

In the late 80's early 90's teams feared playing us, now they look forward to it....:doh:

[chipwhich]

When he stops hanging on to guys like Brunell when its clear they are struggling. I know you say he has always been faithfull to his qb's...but none were as bad as Brunell. Now that JC has an opportunity I have renewed faith.

[Siven]

Joe Gibbs set the bar for what should be expected of him in his first time around. If he cannot bring this team back to a Super Bowl, I think his inclusion in the Yellow Jacket Club of Canton, Ohio needs to be revisited.

I didn't think I'd ever say this to another Skins fan, but with a comment like that I doubt your loyalty to the team. You need to shut your mouth and check yourself, stop bringing your negative attitude here. Dan Marino never won a Superbowl, he should be kicked out right? He has THREE RINGS, how many coaches have 3? Not many. He is one of the best coaches of all time, who was an offensive genius, many of the plays you see now, he drew up 20 + years ago with his own hands.

[RWGURU]

Never stopped, baby.

[MumboSauce]

I've never stopped...while in the end it could be possible it was more of an undertaking this time around than he could manage, I never have any doubts in his commitment, desire, and doing all within his power he feels necessary to succeed etc. at being a manager of men and a football coach.

[leo2k2ndc]

I do believe in him, but i like more animated coaches, he was real exciting and into the games in our lone play-off year, but with all these new hirings maybe he feels less involved, he doesnt even do anything i don't think on the sidelines during games, correct me if im wrong (i mean from play calling, to making subs)

[PorkSkins]

Never stopped. Contrary to popular belief, we have been a lot more stable as an organization since his return. It was Gibbs decision to shake things up with hiring Saunders and the FA signings. We needed more offensive production than we had in 2005. I for one was not expecting anything great last year. Too many changes due to new personnel and injuries. With this year's schedule, and the same personnel coming back (Barring any major injuries again), I expect 10-6 at a minimum.

[2skinsfans]

Never have stopped and never will.

[ImmortalDragon]

I believe in Gibbs, but not the front office.

[Hamilbone13]

Of course, as a Skins die-hard, I want a playoff birth. But I also want it for coach Gibbs' legacy. The biggest concern when he came out of retirement was that the game had passed him by and that he would only tarnish his legendary status. Stay tuned and keep your fingers crossed.

[praise_gibbs]

At what point did I even stop believing? I don't recall that ever being the case.

[PCS]

Whadda ya mean again? :kungfu:

[Tarhog]

Surprised at some of the blind homerism on display in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I worship Gibbs the human being. I've always viewed him as a wonderful human being and role model. Hard not to. But he hasn't shown me all that much as a coach since his return. Sorry - but he has not proven the ability to adjust to today's games. The first season or two, yeah, you get a pass. But this season is make or break time. We don't make the playoffs this year, you have to lay that squarely on Joe Gibbs doorstep. Will I still think he's a wonderful example of a human being, and inspirational leader? Yep. But I'll also say he's been mediocre in his NFL return.

I hope he shows he's 'still got it' this year. And you know what? If we have another crappy year, he'll tell you what I've just said himself - that he hasn't been able to get it done and that he's stepping aside to give someone else a chance to take us back to glory.

[JimmiJo]

Joe Gibbs set the bar for what should be expected of him in his first time around. If he cannot bring this team back to a Super Bowl, I think his inclusion in the Yellow Jacket Club of Canton, Ohio needs to be revisited.

Stupidity abounds...

[JimmiJo]

Surprised at some of the blind homerism on display in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I worship Gibbs the human being. I've always viewed him as a wonderful human being and role model. Hard not to. But he hasn't shown me all that much as a coach since his return. Sorry - but he has not proven the ability to adjust to today's games. The first season or two, yeah, you get a pass. But this season is make or break time. We don't make the playoffs this year, you have to lay that squarely on Joe Gibbs doorstep. Will I still think he's a wonderful example of a human being, and inspirational leader? Yep. But I'll also say he's been mediocre in his NFL return.

I hope he shows he's 'still got it' this year. And you know what? If we have another crappy year, he'll tell you what I've just said himself - that he hasn't been able to get it done and that he's stepping aside to give someone else a chance to take us back to glory.

I don't think the problem has been coaching. I thnk the problem has been talent. I think Gibbs is every bit the coach he ever was. I don't think he is the personnel man he thought he was.

I'm not sure the personnel folks (including Gibbs) appreciate the nuance of chemistry, hence letting guys like AP get out of here.

That being said I think so far they have done a better job this year and expect good things from the team this year.

[#98QBKiller]

Surprised at some of the blind homerism on display in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I worship Gibbs the human being. I've always viewed him as a wonderful human being and role model. Hard not to. But he hasn't shown me all that much as a coach since his return. Sorry - but he has not proven the ability to adjust to today's games. The first season or two, yeah, you get a pass. But this season is make or break time. We don't make the playoffs this year, you have to lay that squarely on Joe Gibbs doorstep. Will I still think he's a wonderful example of a human being, and inspirational leader? Yep. But I'll also say he's been mediocre in his NFL return.

I hope he shows he's 'still got it' this year. And you know what? If we have another crappy year, he'll tell you what I've just said himself - that he hasn't been able to get it done and that he's stepping aside to give someone else a chance to take us back to glory.

I agree that it's time for Gibbs to step up and I get the feeling that he knows that but does it have to be a playoff run for Gibbs to make it back as head coach the following year? What if we go 9-7 in a competitive NFC and barely miss the playoffs? I just want to see progress. If we go 9-7 and don't make the playoffs or if we start strong and lose a playmaker to injury and falter a bit, I say keep him.

I just don't want Snyder to be thinking playoffs or nothing. If we see progress and we miss the playoffs by some default then the last thing I want is to see Snyder revamp the coaching staff.

[Tarhog]

I don't think the problem has been coaching. I thnk the problem has been talent. I think Gibbs is every bit the coach he ever was. I don't think he is the personnel man he thought he was.

I'm not sure the personnel folks (including Gibbs) appreciate the nuance of chemistry, hence letting guys like AP get out of here.

That being said I think so far they have done a better job this year and expect good things from the team this year.

I don't know how you separate 'coaching' from 'talent' - Belichick wins year after year - despite losing talent. Others do as well. We entered 2006 with 'roughly' the same talent as 2005, minus Portis (which granted was a big loss) and yet the season was a disaster. I don't know how you give the coaches (and ultimately the head coach) a pass on that? I'm not saying thats what you're arguing, but the cold hard truth is, were this not a beloved HOF coach, I think his job would be in jeopardy. If we don't make the playoffs this year, I'm not sure his job shouldn't be in jeopardy.

I'm not blaming Gibbs, but his management of the QB situation since he returned to the Skins has been clumsy at best, disastrous at worst. He stuck with Brunell in season one despite horrible showing after horrible showing. He showed weak leadership in apparently endorsing Ramsey as the annointed starter, when it later became clear he had no faith in the kid. He installed Brunell as starter the first chance he got (when Ramsey went out temporarily in the Chicago opener). We had the one good season, and despite having the 'future' at QB riding the bench, he stuck with Brunell again until our fate was sown last season, and only then gave JC playing time. I have the same vibe I had going into the season Gibb's raved about Ramsey as the starter, that he's not even sure he believes the praise he's heaping on JC himself?

Thats not the Joe Gibbs we saw the first time around. It was his team, he chose his QB and never wavered. He didn't hesitate to plug in someone else if the results weren't what they needed to be. He was pretty cold about it actually. Produce or you were replaced.

I don't see that now - what I see is that its more important for players to feel good and be 'together' than to win.

That makes me admire Joe as a human being, but honestly - as a coach, I think he's showing signs he may not be able to impose his will on the team the way he used to.

Just my feeling. I take no pleasure in expressing it.

[Arsenic]

Last season was a fluke and the skins are superbowl bound.

Obvously im filled with tons of faith.

[JimmiJo]

I don't know how you separate 'coaching' from 'talent' - Belichick wins year after year - despite losing talent. Others do as well. We entered 2006 with 'roughly' the same talent as 2005, minus Portis (which granted was a big loss) and yet the season was a disaster. I don't know how you give the coaches (and ultimately the head coach) a pass on that? I'm not saying thats what you're arguing, but the cold hard truth is, were this not a beloved HOF coach, I think his job would be in jeopardy. If we don't make the playoffs this year, I'm not sure his job shouldn't be in jeopardy.

I'm not blaming Gibbs, but his management of the QB situation since he returned to the Skins has been clumsy at best, disastrous at worst. He stuck with Brunell in season one despite horrible showing after horrible showing. He showed weak leadership in apparently endorsing Ramsey as the annointed starter, when it later became clear he had no faith in the kid. He installed Brunell as starter the first chance he got (when Ramsey went out temporarily in the Chicago opener). We had the one good season, and despite having the 'future' at QB riding the bench, he stuck with Brunell again until our fate was sown last season, and only then gave JC playing time. I have the same vibe I had going into the season Gibb's raved about Ramsey as the starter, that he's not even sure he believes the praise he's heaping on JC himself?

Thats not the Joe Gibbs we saw the first time around. It was his team, he chose his QB and never wavered. He didn't hesitate to plug in someone else if the results weren't what they needed to be. He was pretty cold about it actually. Produce or you were replaced.

I don't see that now - what I see is that its more important for players to feel good and be 'together' than to win.

That makes me admire Joe as a human being, but honestly - as a coach, I think he's showing signs he may not be able to impose his will on the team the way he used to.

Just my feeling. I take no pleasure in expressing it.

The Pats practice something we do not - the draft. They keep their draft picks and often accumulate more when they lose talent.

It's great that we get all these top-tier players in FA, but we do so at the expense of the mid-level talent that will act as a back-up to the stars when they are injured. If you look at our D-line you see that over the past two years when the starters are injured we tend to lose. Look at 2005 and what happened during the middle of the year when Griffin and Salave'a got hurt, and then look at the end of the year when they were healthy. Look at the difference in our secondary the past few years when Springs was hurt compared to when healthy. The reality is we don't have the backups to get the job done.

Yes, I will give Gibbs a pass on the coaching part. I wonder how people forget or disregard that we went to the playoffs just one year ago, and but for key injuries to people like Brunell and the receiving corps, could have gone farther than we did. You criticize Brunell, but when helathy he was the best guy we had over the past three years. As for Ramsey, you are wasting your fingers typing if you are even suggesting to me that he was worth a damn.

This is the same coach who engineered the five-game streak to get us in the playoffs. It is the same coach who refocused the team last year offensively and we saw a better performance, especially in the run game.

This team ended the season in 06 better than when they started. And if they had possessed the defense they did in 05 (worse ONLY because of injury and the loss of key personnel) they probably would have returned to the playoffs. In fact four wins would assured it.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

If you ever stopped believing in Gibbs, you're not a Skins fan.

Gibbs always has a plan. He's setting us up to last years after he's back in NASCAR.

[Skindawg Willie]

Last year around this time, there were no doubters of Joe Gibbs. Five wins later, and it's a completely different story. Personally, I'm willing to write it off as a fluke. Many posters on this board seem to disagree, however.

So the question is this: At what point will you believe again? What if we make it to the playoffs at 10-6 again? What will it take to win you people back?

First of all, I'm a huge Joe Gibbs guy. Got into Nascar just because he did, and watched him go after a young but experienced, yet largely unproven driver named Dale Jarrett, and make him a household name. He has a knack for finding and signing talent (Tony Stewart, John Riggins) and building success.

Let's face it, he was the only real choice for Mr. Snyder, after turning the Skins into a circus sideshow.

Part of Joe's MO is that he feels there is a higher power at work, dictating the players, coaches, and opportunities available. He is along for the ride, trusting in faith. I don't blame him, it has worked. He chooses the ones (players, coaches) he "feels it" for, and I think, relative to football, he had a better sense of that in the first go round than this one. Do you REALLY think Campbell and McIntosh were worth the price, AND will lead us to the Super Bowl? Do you really???

Also, he seems to be much more of a "deer in the headlights" (on the sidelines) now than in Gibbs 1. Let's face it, he has aged, and it shows. That's ok, that's life. Joe is best at selling Joe, which he does getting a great coaching staff in place, and still can do from time to time with players, but not as often.

If he stays in for 5 more years, I think he'll get a championship, but not if he's in it for 2-3 more.

Look how long it took LaRussa to get another title, a very Gibbs-like guy (cerebral, passionate, charismatic). Convinced McGuire to come to St. Louis, still didn't get a title for quite a while.

I hope for the best in this draft, but we don't have a lot of ammo (picks wise) without doing the same thing to ourselves next year that we did this year. He's made solid upgrades this year and can build on it with a good pick, but shouldn't mortgage the future on any player in this draft.

I think the best player in this draft is Peterson, that is what history will show. But we won't go for him. Take a lesson from Detroit and don't go for a receiver, please. The Skins aren't as bad as last year showed, but remain a few major pieces short.

[TheTotalPackage]

i never really stopped believing in him, but i do believe he needs to keep his foot strategically planted in Al Saunders' ass.

[Isifhan]

endorsing Ramsey as the annointed starter, when it later became clear he had no faith in the kid. He installed Brunell as starter the first chance he got (when Ramsey went out temporarily in the Chicago opener).

Thats not the Joe Gibbs we saw the first time around. It was his team, he chose his QB and never wavered. He didn't hesitate to plug in someone else if the results weren't what they needed to be. He was pretty cold about it actually. Produce or you were replaced.

These two quotes are contradictory. Ramsey was pulled because he the results weren't what they needed to be, not even close. Unless you consider a terrible pre-season and a brief period where he lost the ball three times, leading us to the promise land. Ramsey didn't produce and he was replaced. I would say, in this regard, Gibbs is exactly the same as the first time around.