Lavarleap56 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 After all Off-season seeing all the discussions regarding our supposed neccesity to take a DL prospect with our first selection here our some of my views. BPA is clearly a better way to build a successfull team for the long term. Teams that draft for neccesity and reach for players to fill a immediate position usually end up dissapointed unless the stars align and the BPA happens to fill a need for your team. Clearly the debate among this years draft is DL vs Calvin Johnson and I understand and agree with some individuals from both sides of the debate however im not sold on any of the DL prospects in this years draft being the cream of the crop once they enter the NFL. The Washington Redskins need some help along the DL its pretty odvious but at what cost? As a skins fan and we esentially have one pick in this years draft what type of player would you want to come away with? I can tell you i wouldnt put all my apples into the Alan Branch, Gaines Adams, Anderson carts for various reasons. DL prospects are pretty weak this year compared to others they just happen to be the best coming out of school in 2007, Branch is not regarded as a better or equal player to a Tommie Harris and Anderson, Adams are not in the same class as a J. Peppers type DE, so why should we reach for them?? I would like to remind everyone of a little story and i know its a different sport and what not but i always look back on it. In 1984 the Portland Trailblazers had a roster full of talented guards and small forwards (including Clyde Drexler), and logic dictated they needed a center to complete the puzzle. Their pick was second overall, just out of reach of the real premium center that year, current Hall-of-Famer, Hakeem Olajuwon. The consensus second best player was an explosive and dynamic player from North Carolina, a young shooting guard by the name of Michael Jordan. But the Blazers didn’t need a guard, they needed a big man. The Blazers picked for need and selected Sam Bowie out of Kentucky, letting the best available player fall to the Chicago Bulls picking third and the rest is history. Bowie had an injury-addled career as a journey-man and Jordan went on to be what many consider the greatest of all time. The above story seems to be repeating itself even in the 2006 draft with Bush vs. Williams, i know Bussh may not be the greatest runningback to play but in terms of production and helping his team he far surpased Williams to this point. Calvin Johnson if we have the ability to get him somehow this year you play to cards to do it within reason IMO. Johnson can add alot to this team and have more impact than a DE our DT at this point. Brandon is already on his third chance with the Skins in a years time and produced very little and alienated many of his teammates in the process. Where did all the fans go that were clamoring for us to use Sean T. as a wr on third down and in the red-zone to get a big body in there?? IMO we need a WR just as bad as a DL and you know someone use to say a good defense is a even better offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Paul Simon said it best: Every generation throws a hero up the pop charts. Problem is, right now Johnson is that guy, but he hasn't even released a single yet. Makes me nervous when a guy becomes "the one" before he's ever played a down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Bob Knight, as an assistant GM for the blazers told the coach, "Play Jordan at center if you have too, just draft him." Shoulda listened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAB Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 That makes sense if CJ falls to us at 6. I don't think he will though and moving up to get him will simply cost too much, IMO. If we didn't have WR's we could count on, maybe... but with us needing so much else in the draft, moving up to take a WR doesn't make sense to me. I agree with BPA (except for QB) at 6. If CJ is there, take him. If he's gone (which he will be) then take the best player available there. If that is Adams, great. Don't give up the farm to move up though. That changes the analogies you used because the trail blazers didn't move up to get Bowie. Had they moved up, they would've had Olajuwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 Paul Simon said it best: Every generation throws a hero up the pop charts. Problem is, right now Johnson is that guy, but he hasn't even released a single yet. Makes me nervous when a guy becomes "the one" before he's ever played a down. I know what you mean but for some reason i just get this feeling that the guy is going to be great. I havnt felt that about a player entering a proffesional sport since Lebron James and Reggie Bush really. If we did get Johnson and he didnt pan out as a wide reciever he would be one hell of a gunner on the punt squad with arch :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 There is no way CJ is slipping to 6, so including him in any BPA vs Need debate is silly. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted March 17, 2007 Author Share Posted March 17, 2007 There is no way CJ is slipping to 6, so including him in any BPA vs Need debate is silly. :2cents: That is assuming we are staying at #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 The Bowie vs. Jordan example is one people always use to prove that "you should always take the BPA". It's also an extreme case, and one that you need to go back over two decades, and into another sport, to find. It ignores the premium that NBA teams put on Cs, and that Portland's big error was likely not that they drafted for need, but that they severely underrated Jordan (or overrated Bowie, or both). In reality, every team needs to balance need vs BPA. If there is a player that's rated well above everyone else, then teams know they need to take them, or make a trade to get extra value. The more likely scenario is that a team has two players rated closely with one filling a need and one not. To use the Skins as an example, what if Quinn and Branch were our two top rated prospects available when we're on the clock? Say, on a scale of 1-100, we have Quinn rated an 85, and Branch an 84? Do we take Quinn because he's "the best player available"? Of course not. Your point with CJ seems to be that we "need a WR as much as a DL", which is debatable, but pretty much negates your rant up until then anyway. Johnson, who I think will certainly be gone by #6 anyway, may be the best player in the draft, and he may fill a big need for us, but those are points that can be discussed at another time. My point is just that the "BPA vs. Need" debate is a completely overblown argument that exists almost exclusively on message boards and at bars. I don't believe there is an NFL Front Office where people are actually discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmishGangsta Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I like your point and Om's reply. The Redskins always do something strange in the draft that no ones expecting - last year might be an exception, everyone knew we were more than likely looking at linebackers. But do you remember a couple years back, when almost everyone and there mothers were certain that we would draft Mike Williams? Because our biggest need at the time was WR. People threw hissy fits when we passed on him - how'd he turn out btw? I think sometimes as fans, what we feel is a need on this team, might not actually be what the team needs; sometimes the coaches think differently than we do. We have a lot invested in DEs like Daniels, Wynn, and Carter. Who do you cut, a veteran leader in the locker room in Wynn? Anyway, I thought it was a nice write up, thanks for that info:applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stat2883 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I havnt felt that about a player entering a proffesional sport since Lebron James and Reggie Bush really. you make it sound like it was years ago ....I haven't felt that way about a meal since I made that chicken and rice last night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 DL prospects are pretty weak this year compared to others they just happen to be the best coming out of school in 2007, Branch is not regarded as a better or equal player to a Tommie Harris and Anderson, Adams are not in the same class as a J. Peppers type DE, so why should we reach for them?? I follow the draft and not one resource I know of considers this a down year for defensive lineman. In fact it's quite the contrary - it's considered very deep. There are also 2-3 defensive lineman considered to be worthy of the #6 pick. So you're in the minority. The above story seems to be repeating itself even in the 2006 draft with Bush vs. Williams, i know Bussh may not be the greatest runningback to play but in terms of production and helping his team he far surpased Williams to this point. This is a myth that is getting tiresome. Bush had an ok year but he did not put New Orleans over the top. He is not the next LT. He's not even the next Clinton Portis. He is at best the next Brian Westbrook. I can name about 10 RBs who have had better rookie seasons the past 10 years. He seems to get the credit for New Orleans turnaround when in reality, it was all about 2 people: Drew Brees and Sean Payton. Mario Williams is going to be more valuable in the long run. Had Houston won 8 or 9 games he wouldn't have to be the butt of jokes. Casual fans get seduced by #s because skill position players are a lot easier to quantify than defensive lineman. You can talk about yards and TDs and catches with players like Bush but people look at one thing with Dlineman - sacks. If he got 12 or 14 he was good. MW had only 5 so he must have been a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 ouch the jordan analogy is pretty awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOOG Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'll just throw this out there...this is a WHAT IF.... What if he does drop to us, yet, there is a team behind us that wants him badly enough to give up oh...lets say enough draft picks to make us forget about the Duckett deal and still pick up a decent DL? My point isnt so much we should draft a DL, but, that we just dont know the different scenarios involved. I beleive in BPA or moving down, taking a DL at 6 when you could get a pick or two AND get a DL at 15 who may have "less hype" but still produce makes sense to me. If he was there at 6 you take offers and if none fit the value you draft him.:logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 BPA is the wrong philosophy so far as I am concerned. I'll leave the rest of the debate at this.... If we don't do something to significantly improve the center of our Defensive Line before the start of training camp, this team is doomed to another sub-.500 season. Calvin Johnson isn't going to do jack-**** to improve the Defensive Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 1) Johnson won't be there at #6- guaranteed. If the Moss to GB trade goes through he may just be off the board at #1. And we would be totally insane to get him by moving up. 2) WRs in the NFL usually take 2-3 years before we really know if they are the next superstar or bust. And with #6 being our only 1st day pick, we need an impact player at D now- not a backup WR who may be a superstar by 2008-2009. 3) Not alot of talented DL's out there? This is a great year for us. There is so much depth at the position that we could risk trading down, getting a 2nd or 3rd rounder with a lower 1st and get both the DT and DE that we may want. 4) Last time I heard so much hype about a player "we should" draft, it was Robert Gallery and we know how he's doing for the Raiders Nope we got to draft D.....and I'm all for Branch, Okeye or Carikker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26fan4life Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 every team should draft on need. once you identify that need, you draft the best player in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 This is a myth that is getting tiresome. Bush had an ok year but he did not put New Orleans over the top. He is not the next LT. He's not even the next Clinton Portis. He is at best the next Brian Westbrook. I can name about 10 RBs who have had better rookie seasons the past 10 years. He seems to get the credit for New Orleans turnaround when in reality, it was all about 2 people: Drew Brees and Sean Payton. Mario Williams is going to be more valuable in the long run. Had Houston won 8 or 9 games he wouldn't have to be the butt of jokes. Casual fans get seduced by #s because skill position players are a lot easier to quantify than defensive lineman. You can talk about yards and TDs and catches with players like Bush but people look at one thing with Dlineman - sacks. If he got 12 or 14 he was good. MW had only 5 so he must have been a bust. Vince Young was the best player in that draft. After the his Rosebowl performance that should have been obvious to everyone so two teams passed on the BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Calvin Johnson isn't the Michael Jordan of football. Also, remember the Kellen Winslow Jr. situation? What if we passed on Sean Taylor and drafted Winslow Jr. instead? We'd probably be in even worse shape than we are now. *Edit: If I remember correctly, in that year's draft, Winslow Jr. was touted as the best player available and there were a ton of 'Skins fans that were upset that we passed on him for Sean Taylor. In retrospect, I think we made a fine decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 The Blazers picked for need and selected Sam Bowie out of Kentucky, letting the best available player fall to the Chicago Bulls picking third and the rest is history. Bowie had an injury-addled career as a journey-man and Jordan went on to be what many consider the greatest of all time. Once again, hindsight is great. Bowie was coming off a broken leg he suffered in college. Portland was stupid to take him in the first place. Secondly, Jordan had done nothing in college that fore told that he'd turn out to be the second best player in NBA history. In fact, the knock on MJ was : volume shooter with a suspect jumpshot. With your line of reasoning: The Celtics should've seen Bias' death coming and never drafted him Jabbar should've never been traded or for that matter ..Wilt either. As far as the Skins go, we should've known not to draft Taylor Jacobs,Robert McCune,Mark Wilson..etc. The fact remains that we've spent over a decade ignoring the Dline on day one of the draft and every year,it's the same... "We have no pass rush. Let's draft Dline come April." Then as April approaches...." Wow..look at player X's combine numbers or his pro day!! Just have to draft him. Dline can wait another year." When will this franchise break the circle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 We have to go defense IMO as much as I would like to see Calvin come to D.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Well,since CJ will be off the board.Does that make Landry the BPA.We do need another safty,so it's also a possition of need and it hurts the cowboys.Although I am from the draft DE camp. and one real big reason the saints were better is a healthy Duece.If ya don't believe me,ask me next year when I use Portis as the example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuels Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Well,since CJ will be off the board.Does that make Landry the BPA.We do need another safty,so it's also a possition of need and it hurts the cowboys.Although I am from the draft DE camp.and one real big reason the saints were better is a healthy Duece.If ya don't believe me,ask me next year when I use Portis as the example! Landry will be the BPA at #6 but i'd move back a few spots and try like hell to get him while getting a decent DL with the tradedown.. To me Carriker and Branch are the only sure things those other d-lineman have serious bust potential.. But the problem is both of the above mentioned are big,stout run stuffers not exactly what we need.. At #6 the player has to be a sure thing you draft a bust and it sets you back even further.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26fan4life Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Landry will be the BPA at #6 but i'd move back a few spots and try like hell to get him while getting a decent DL with the tradedown.. To me Carriker and Branch are the only sure things those other d-lineman have serious bust potential.. But the problem is both of the above mentioned are big,stout run stuffers not exactly what we need.. At #6 the player has to be a sure thing you draft a bust and it sets you back even further.. what do you mean a run stuffer isn't exactly what we need. 27th against the run, allowed 4.5 yards per carry. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick_in_B&G Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 BPA is the wrong philosophy so far as I am concerned. I'll leave the rest of the debate at this.... If we don't do something to significantly improve the center of our Defensive Line before the start of training camp, this team is doomed to another sub-.500 season. Calvin Johnson isn't going to do jack-**** to improve the Defensive Line. I never thought I'd say this, but I ag-ag-agree with Mass here. We draft CJ and we have a nice offense, but we'll have the same defense back. The lack of D was the difference between '05 and '06. We draft D at all costs even if that means passing CJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 We have no need for a WR. Do you not think Santana Moss is a premier number 1 wideout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.