Is our D line as bad as we all think?

[planter]

Griffin and the late surging Carter seem OK.

Injuries hampered some of the other DL starters last year but how much...?

[lead commander]

we need another de,but other than that we are fine..big joe salavea should be back healthy along with corneilus griffin..than we have goldston and montgomery who both played decent and gained experience when griff and joe were out hurt..andre carter came on strong down the stretch and expect him to be even better now that he understands the system and his teammates better,we need to draft a stud de in the draft and we should be very good on the dline this coming season...

[scottlo34]

Our D-Line is putrid. Disappointed it hasn't been addressed yet....but they must have their game plan for the draft. I still say we have to get Kerney in here and then we are pretty much done with free agents. The state of our D-Line by Week 1 will tell the story of our '07 season....bottom line.

[KevinthePRF]

Aside from all the unforgiving stats from 2006. A good way to gauge a certain area of your team sucks is if you have a need to start with, "If (fill in the blank) is healthy...". This couldn't be more true with our D-line and it's need for CG to be in the game just to show a sign of life. Our D-line needs help and depth everywhere. Trade down and keep picking lineman. We need all the help we can get.

[Bonez3]

Smoot back will also help out the d line also. He can tackle good and cover up some mistakes. I can see GW let the dogs loose again. He can have conf in our coverage now, and that makes the whole team better.

I'm sorry, I had to stop reading right here and say 2 things- Fred Smoot will not help the D-line and he is not a good tackler.

I am eventually going to get around to making peace with F. Smoot, but I will never ceed to the idea he is a good tackler until he actual proves he can tackle at all. Fred Smoot is a horrendous tackler and I was the biggest supporter of letting him walk.

I know alot of fans love him returning, but I have far from getting my hopes up.

I do think we need a DE in the draft and just get a fat body to rotate in at DT. Golston was a pleasant surprise last year. It's a correctable situation.

[sackfumble]

For anyone that thinks Golston or Montgomery are promising please watch the tape from the Titan game where they were getting blown off the ball with ridiculous ease.Henry went for 178 that day and averaged 5 plus yards a carry.That was the game where Salavea and Griffin didn't dress.

[JimmyConway]

I'm sorry, I had to stop reading right here and say 2 things- Fred Smoot will not help the D-line and he is not a good tackler.

I am eventually going to get around to making peace with F. Smoot, but I will never ceed to the idea he is a good tackler until he actual proves he can tackle at all. Fred Smoot is a horrendous tackler and I was the biggest supporter of letting him walk.

I know alot of fans love him returning, but I have far from getting my hopes up.

I do think we need a DE in the draft and just get a fat body to rotate in at DT. Golston was a pleasant surprise last year. It's a correctable situation.

Smoot has averaged around 50 tackles a year for his career which isn't bad but not great either. Champ averages 75 just to provide some comparison.

As far as our D-line goes, you're right. It's fixable and won't take much. We need depth to keep guys like Salavea and Griff healthy. With a rotation of those two guys, Golston, and a possible "fat body" late round pick our interior dline doesn't seem as bad. Combine that with Carter and Jamaal Anderson/Carriker/Adams/Branch and I don't know about you but our line will be adequate for our D to return 04-05 form.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

we probably had the worst front 7 in football.

How did that happen in one off-season? I think the defense isn't really as bad as they played. There must have been multiple intangibles in play for the d to have dropped off so dramatically. Unless years of trying to keep a pathetic offense in games caused premature aging.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

last year our Dline was worse than you can imagine. daniels is old and slow, no rush whatsoever, carter didnt figure out how to play DE until week 11 (cant blame him really, at least he ended very strong), griffin was not 100% and it showed, and salavea was worthless, which meant golston had to step in, and golston is a junior version of griffin, not a mammoth run stuffer. coupled with a tiny lemar marshall at MLB, a doormat warrick holdman, and marcus washington, we probably had the worst front 7 in football.

Did u honestly call marcus washington bad?:doh:

[michael_33]

I think that if anyone were to say our D-line is very average,then I would count that as a HUGE compliment!!

I don't know what it is...?You would think with Carter,Griffin,Daniels and anyone else...that it would be decent,but it's not...

I think WITH the addition of Carter last season we are now out of the bottom 5 and still in the bottom 10 of the whole league...

But I'll tell you what I think is really wrong with our line...

Most teams either have 1 or even 2 blue chip D-lineman on their squad...Gamechangers if you will...OR they have 3 REALLY good lineman that can wreak havok on any certain day,but maybe not every game...!

Either way..Most teams are good enough in the trenches that it makes the rest of their defense that much more tougher against teams...their corners play better...Their LBers get to the ball and so on....

We have 1 really good DT (not great) but good....1 DE that can have a good game here and there and will probably get to the QB at least once a game...!

THAT'S IT!....That's all we have....We need at LEAST 1 blue chipper along the line to make Carter and Griffin that much better...Dosn't matter if it's a DE or DT...

But a guy that constantly puts pressure on the QB cause he has an awesome motor..!

A guy that requires 2 men to double team him every play or most of the time...

Let me ask you all this for a second...

How good would our defenses have been had we not had Dexter Manley,but had Butz and Mann...Or had Mann but no manley...Or had Mann and Manley but no Butz....They all 3 complimented 1 another and made each other a force along the line...

Not only do we need to Draft a D-lineman with the 1st pick in the draft..I would like to see us get another guy in FA...daniels is a good backup,but that's it!...Wynn is a very expensive backup....Basically everyone but Griffin and Carter can be replaced on the line!!

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Just proves that most "fans" are football illiterate...

Yes we need help at DE. The problem with last years run issues could be attributed to Carter getting up field too quickly and the fact that Holdman was on his side. When Washington got banged up, we were in serious trouble especially in the run game. Basically our LB's didn't fill gaps correctly. I will say this...the DT's didn't get a lot of push up front in the pass rush and Daniels is a horrific pass rusher.

It boils down to weak LB play in the run game last year, and we didn't have enough push up the middle for pass rushing purposes. We need an End that can stop the run as well as get up field to play opposite Carter, a sound run stopping WLB like Marshall who can just hit the gap really hard instead of worrying about "quaterbacking the defense", and we need Golston and Griff to get better push up the middle in the pass rush. I say we trade down, pick up a DE late in the first and pick a DT with a second rounder from trading down. If we grab Kerney, we can think about taking a stud DT with the sixth like Branch or pick a stud skill player for depth. So many options this year. It's really a good thing...much different than last year's buy and hope strategy.

HTTR

[dfos81]

We got youth and vets up and down our D line. At DT we had 2 rookies step in and get some good playing time. We still got Joe S, and CG. At the DE Andre Carter with a young hungry first round pick at DE. We still got phillip also. I think the D line will be fine. We will finish in the top 10 in defense again.:dallasuck

I think our D line will only get better for sure. I like the fact that we do have a good mix a veterans and youth w/ guys like Kedric Golston that replaced Joe S. after he got injured.

[SkinsFanAnt]

:doh: All the guys saying our DL is fine do not need to posting or even blogging about football. How can you guys be fans saying our DL is fine?! That is like saying Davis was a great bargain pickup for the Pukes!

OUR D-LINE WAS ATROCIOUS LAST YEAR! My main call is to pick DT Branch if he is available because if Griffin is hurt we are pretty much doomed. Teams ran through us like they ran through the Colts last year (not including playoffs), and that is BAD. We set an NFL RECORD FOR FEWEST SACKS! We were demolished on 3rd downs. We gave them more first downs then Paris Hilton at a Chippendale's convention! HOW AGAIN IS OUR DEFENSIVE LINE FINE!? This is what happens when Paper warriors play fantasy football and then come to the realization of a 5-11 record. Logic has no meaning anymore.:doh:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

How much of the offense, that went 3 and out on a regular basis last year had to do with are d line troubles, We got worn down last year. Remember the Giants game they beat us 19 to 3 they had the ball almost the whole game. Lots of factors went into our D line being bad last year.

worst argument ever. if you were correct at all, we would have seen a difference once the offense started clicking, and all we did is just give up more points. look at the rams game. our defense gave up a 21 POINT LEAD!!!! thats worse than video game stats. our defense couldnt stop a middle school girls field hockey team, and every team knew it.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

The D-line is not nearly as bad as some people want to make it out to be. Quite frankly it isn't even essential that we draft D-line for dramatic improvement going into next season.

The way Carter emerged towards the end of the season, if continued will put him in the 11 sack range next year.

If Kedrick Golston has in fact been busting his you know what off in the offseason to get stronger, he can be an excellent starter. His technique looked good and he got good penetration. His only issue was being overpowered which is merely a weight lifting issue.

Phillip Daniels is still a very serviceable DE. The man is not particularly good at rushing the passer but he is very solid against the run. At 290 lbs he is able to clog up some holes too.

Cornelius Griffin and Joe Salavea were not healthy last season. If they are healed up we can expect an improved middle against the run and increased pressure from inside.

Furthermore, if Springs stays healthy and Smoot returns to his old Redskins form it will give greater freedome to our front line which should lead to some improvement.

Finally, Carlos Rogers will eventually hold onto an interception. I wonder what effect our thrown away turnover opportunities had to the stamina and ultimately the performance of our DL.

Everything being said, we do not need to draft DL this year for 2008, it is still a wise idea just to improve the youth on the line, but it is far from essential.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Guys, this D has a long way to go before we can call it bad

The D-line is old. Daniels, Griffin, Salavae, and Wynn. Carter still needs to prove himself

Montgomery and Golston can be guys in a rotation. I never want to hear "starting at DT, Cedric Golston"

At LB, Washington, Fletcher and hopefully Rocky will be a quality starting 3. But within the next 3 seasons we need to have replacements for Fletcher and Marcus

Our secondary is still up in the air. Can Carlos bounce back and be a top 10 pick? Is Smoot even a number 2 CB? What is the status of SS? Sean Taylor, will he blow up this year, or regress. And who the hell is our strong safety

Not to mention the scheme. Just what is Gregg Williams trying to run this year? The cover 2? 7 in the box?

Lots of questions. It is incredible how quickly this D fell off the wagon

[dfos81]

:doh: All the guys saying our DL is fine do not need to posting or even blogging about football. How can you guys be fans saying our DL is fine?! That is like saying Davis was a great bargain pickup for the Pukes!

OUR D-LINE WAS ATROCIOUS LAST YEAR! My main call is to pick DT Branch if he is available because if Griffin is hurt we are pretty much doomed. Teams ran through us like they ran through the Colts last year (not including playoffs), and that is BAD. We set an NFL RECORD FOR FEWEST SACKS! We were demolished on 3rd downs. We gave them more first downs then Paris Hilton at a Chippendale's convention! HOW AGAIN IS OUR DEFENSIVE LINE FINE!? This is what happens when Paper warriors play fantasy football and then come to the realization of a 5-11 record. Logic has no meaning anymore.:doh:

Like I said, the positive note is we can only get better. I can't wait to see a true pass rush this year, i just have a great feeling about our #6pick being a DE that is both a good pass rusher and a good run stopper, has great pursuit. Who that guy is I don't know but I have a feeling he will be well balanced like Gibbs is known best for, balanced players w/ great character. That leads to a great locker room, and that ultimately leads to great chemistry on the field as well. Obviously a big athletic dude like A. Branch would be awesome, but I could see us getting a DE too.

Hell if it went the way I would want it to, we would trade down a few picks, still get Branch, and STEAL one of the two top De's in the draft in G. Adams and J. Anderson, that would be my dream come true.

[dfbovey]

We need a new starting left end and a new starting DT to pair with Griffin. With limited draft picks and cap space, I get the feeling that only one of those needs will be attended to. I'd prefer both of those spots be filled with young players that would be staples in the defense for years to come. We already have enough old farts on the team.

[dfos81]

I wanna take back me saying that G. Adams was the top 2 de in the draft. For us I think this guy will be a game changing type 3rd down pass rusher just read what the scouts are saying about him. Sounds like he and Branch are the top 2 choices for us, and it seems like we will be guaranteed at least 1 of the 2, lets try and get both Gibbs, come on!

Prospect Profiles

Jarvis Moss

Height: 6-6

Weight: 251

Position: Defensive End/Outside Linebacker

College: Florida

Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange

OVERVIEW

Regarded as one of the premier high school defensive ends in the country, Moss was looking forward to living up to the billing of being "the next Jevon Kearse" when he arrived on Florida's campus in 2003. However, a pelvic bone injury suffered during his senior year at Ryan High School would not only keep Moss off the field for most of his first two seasons with the Gators, but literally kept him off his feet.

A Parade All-America selection at Ryan High School, Moss was named a USA Today first-team All-American and was ranked as the best strong-side defensive end in the nation and the overall No. 25 national prospect by Rivals. He was also rated the best defensive player in Texas by that recruiting service. He added All-American and Elite 50 team accolades from Super Prep, and led his team to three-consecutive Class 4A state championship games, winning titles in his junior and senior seasons.

The two-year starter helped his team to a 30-1 record over his final two seasons. Despite missing seven games due to injury, Moss recorded 81 tackles (29 for loss), 12 sacks, four forced fumbles and four recovered fumbles. He totaled 122 tackles, including 52 for a loss and 28 sacks, seven pass deflections, three forced fumbles and five fumble recovers as a junior and had 61 tackles and nine sacks as a sophomore.

Moss was invited to play in the U.S. Army All-Star Game in Texas. However, when he hurt his pelvis in 2002, Moss received a cortisone injection right into the pelvic bone and missed seven games that year. He would slowly develop a staph infection, but it would remain undiagnosed for two years until Urban Meyer arrived on campus as the team's new head coach in 2005.

The infection limited his action for three years until the 2005 season, where he joined the team's rotation at defensive end, seeing action in 11 games as a reserve. He recorded 25 tackles (17 solos), but despite limited playing time in third-down passing situations, he led the team with 7.5 sacks and 11 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He also recovered and caused a fumble, deflected two passes and had a pair of pressures. By the end of his sophomore year, Moss had his weight back up into the 250-pound range.

After an intense training program during the 2006 offseason, Moss earned a starting job at weak-side defensive end in 2006. He started 13 games, but was suspended for the Western Carolina game for violating team rules. He finished fourth on the team with 56 tackles (42 solos) and ranked fifth in the Southeastern Conference with 7½ sacks. He added 11 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 12 quarterback pressures. He caused four fumbles, deflected four passes and used his 37-inch vertical leap to block two kicks.

In 26 games at Florida, Moss started 13 times. He finished his career with 87 tackles (64 solos), 15 sacks for minus-114 yards and 22 stops for losses totaling 131 yards. He registered 14 quarterback pressures, caused five fumbles and recovered another. He also blocked two kicks and deflected six passes.

ANALYSIS

Positives: Has a tall, lanky frame with broad shoulders, tight waist and good bubble … Moves very well coming off the edge and will bring immediate value in third-down passing situations … Shows above-average balance and flexibility on the move and has explosive acceleration in backside pursuit … Fluid and flexible athlete with very crisp change of direction agility … Makes quick reads and reacts with good urgency once he locates the ball … Despite limited reps until 2006, it is rare to see him get faked out … Learns with normal reps and is a self-starter who puts in the extra hours after practice … Plays with good aggression, but is best when he avoids or slips past blocks rather than trying to engage the offensive lineman (lacks the bulk and strength to control) … Moves well off the line, getting his best production when he beats the offensive tackle coming out of his stance … His outstanding burst off the snap allows him to gain advantage, especially when coming off the edge … His initial step lets him beat the offensive tackle to the spot and he has that extra gear to run by them … High energy type who closes on the ball with good pad level … Defeats blocks with quickness rather than power … When he gets a free lane, he has the ability to knife through and penetrate the line … Has very good lateral movement in pursuit and is an explosive form tackler when closing on the quarterback … Has the speed to give chase along the perimeter and good ability to sift out the ball in a pile (four forced fumbles in 2006) … Shows very good hip snap and adequate wrap-up technique, using his long reach to make good arm tackles … What he does best is explode off the edge and generate pressure on the pocket … If not accounted for, he will sack the quarterback due to his speed and pad level (has excellent hip wiggle and shake to juke).

Negatives: Still trying to recover the strength and bulk that he lost while battling his pelvis injury … Needs to add at least another 20 pounds to his frame to prevent blockers from walling him off when trying to work in-line … Must keep his hands active, especially vs. low blocks, as he tends to get taken off his feet too much trying to slip through trash (does not protect his legs on the move) … Plays too high on the move and this causes him to struggle in attempts to squeeze down the rush lane, and will get washed out when he tries to split double teams … More effective playing off the edge, as he lacks the raw power to defeat blocks when lining head up on an opponent … Struggles to disengage when working over the middle, as he is easily defeated vs. face-up blockers … Has good flexibility, but for some reason his hips sink and his feet die when blockers get their hands into his body … Lacks the hand strength to jerk and pull down the offensive lineman (must improve his rip and club moves, but has an efficient swim move) … His three-year struggle with a staph infection in his pelvic bone needs further medical evaluation … The school will not discuss suspensions, but there is a need to challenge the player on the reason he was suspended for the 2006 Western Carolina game.

Compares To: Simeon Rice, Tampa Bay … Some experts compare him to Jevon Kearse, but while Moss has Kearse-like quickness he lacks the bulk and upper-body strength to defeat face-up blockers. Moss could possible move to outside linebacker in a 3-4 alignment, but at least brings instant value in third-down passing situations, where he can do what he does best -- penetrate off the edge to disrupt the pocket.

INJURY REPORT

2002: Missed seven games during his high school senior year due to a pelvis injury.

2003: Suffered a hernia in preseason drills … Re-injured a muscle in his pelvic area after battling through preseason pain, and did not return after playing in the Florida A&M game.

2004: Sat out all but one game due to a staph infection in his pelvic bone.

2005: Held out of the season opener vs. Wyoming as he recovered from spending six weeks in the hospital for treatment on his pelvic bone infection.

AGILITY TESTS

Campus: 4.63 in the 40-yard dash … 265-pound bench press … 415-pound squat (from 2004) … 37-inch vertical jump … 33½-inch arm length … 9½-inch hands.

HIGH SCHOOL

Attended Ryan (Denton, Texas) High School, playing football for head coach Joey Florence … Parade All-America selection … Named a USA Today first-team All-American and was ranked as the best strong-side defensive end in the nation and the overall No. 25 national prospect by Rivals … Rated the best defensive player in Texas by that recruiting service … Added All-American and Elite 50 team accolades from Super Prep and led his team to three consecutive Class 4A state championship games, winning titles in his junior and senior seasons … The two-year starter helped his team to a 30-1 record over his final two seasons … Despite missing seven games due to injury, Moss recorded 81 tackles (29 for loss), 12 sacks, four forced fumbles and four recovered fumbles … Totaled 122 tackles, including 52 for a loss and 28 sacks, seven pass deflections, three forced fumbles and five fumble recovers as a junior, and had 61 tackles and nine sacks as a sophomore … Invited to play in the U.S. Army All-Star Game in Texas.

PERSONAL

Sociology … Son of Bobby Wilson … Born Aug. 3, 1984 … Resides in Denton, Texas.

[lvredfan]

Was 04 and 05 a fluke for our D line , I think we had less talent than we are going to have in 07 and everyone loved our d line those years. Joe s and Cg proved they could stuff the run. They will be healthy and play with added motivation come next year. Playing injured when your a Dt does not work. I liked our 2 rookies from last year also. I think the coaches know what kind of players we got there. We dont need any big FA signings just a good draft pick and som time to heal up and we will be fine

[No_Pressure]

I'm going to catch some crap for saying this, but honestly...with the same or worse defensive line we were a #3 and #9 defense, top 10 in the NFL for 2 straight years. People get injured all over the defense including the line and suddenly we need a scapegoat for the terrible play of the defense.

The defensive line was not clogging up holes? Well Lemar Marshall and Warrick Holdman couldn't tackle. The defensive line was not getting any pressure? Our secondary was so bad other teams could max protect and still pick apart Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph...

Sure the defensive line was bad, but it isn't exactly as if it was the only aspect of a defense that ranked 31st in the NFL.

Now I am in favor of going d-line in the draft, but I don't get people that think as soon as we get 1 330 pounder at DT, or one speed rusher, or one all around good DE, we will automatically have one of the best run defenses in the NFL. In 2004 we had one of the best. All of the defensive line stayed healthy, the secondary stayed healthy and covered well, and we had a tackling machine leader at middle linebacker.

Look at how we are shaping up this season. We got our old secondary back with the exception of Ryan Clark, we got a tacking machine leader at middle backer, and I would like to add a defensive lineman. I don't think people give our linemen we had enough credit for playing well above their level for two seasons, but I also agree that it would be wise to take an impact defensive lineman in the draft. I also think that if we decided to trade down and take an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman who is not exactly a top player we would be fine with the guys we have.

1 unit got the blame for terrible play of an entire unit...we got injured and a couple of coaches acted like idiots. A lot of people didn't think we would go from what? #28 in the NFL to #3 in the first year under Williams? Well why can't we go from 31 to top 10 with the recent free agency moves we have made?

Well thats my :2cents:, I am awating someone who will tell me I am completely wrong because the line enables the linebackers and defensive backs to play well, and completely ignores the fact that we had the same line when our linebackers and secondary played well as we do now basically, in fact it was upgraded with Carter.

[pilsburypgh]

that D line is pathetic, its really embarrising.

[Oldskool]

Well thats my :2cents:, I am awating someone who will tell me I am completely wrong because the line enables the linebackers and defensive backs to play well, and completely ignores the fact that we had the same line when our linebackers and secondary played well as we do now basically, in fact it was upgraded with Carter.

:laugh: for the 32165412154 time, here we go.

in 2004/2005 when the D line was opening holes and allowing blitzers to come free, Salave'a missed 3 games total due to injuries (remember, he has never played 16 games in one season). He was having a career year both in tackles (23 in 2005) and sacks (2 in 2004).

Come 2006 and he is slowed due to age and injury. Only plays in 13 games in 2006. Golston steps in to fill for him. Golston is not a 2-gap DT and does not garner a double team. He's also playing next to a hobbled Griffin. Neither can open holes like they appeared in 2004/05. This does not allow the LB's or the Safeties to get to the QB/RB and exposes our weak secondary.

Salave'a cannot be expected to do something he has never done, which is start 16 games. No other DT on the roster requires a double team to handle. All in all, you need an anchor on the line to take 2 defenders on, allow single converage to the DE's and open holes for the LB's/Safeties to do their job in Williams' 46 defense.

[No_Pressure]

So let me get this straight.

Joe Salavea getting injured is why I am wrong about the line playing so badly this year because of injuries...like the rest of the defense...???

And hold on...it would be nice to have another defensive tackle or end? I said that too. I want us to take one in the draft, however if you think that this line is not servicable when it was for 2 years your crazy.

When our defensive line did clog things up who was there to meet the ball carrier?

Warrick Holdman?

Lemar Marshall with like 100 total tackles and like 60 solo? You heard his name called how many times? He blew up fullbacks and halfbacks how many times? How often did Holdman get run over and sealed? You can't blame 1 unit or more appropriatly, 2 players.

[CapitalDefense]

Is our D line as bad as we all think?

No, its worse because they are a year older, those vets, and 2 steps slower.