Has Political Correctness Ruined Our Country?

[LightAgent]

Not surprisingly, chom, you and I disagree.

For example, I don't see saying someone is "black" as being racist, anymore than I do saying someone is "white." However, if a black man would prefer that I call him African American, I'm going to. It's just common courtesy. But the fact that I said the word "black" doesn't make me a racist.

Look at the progression of how we've refered to African Americans in our society. Pre-1960s, blacks were commonly called by the "n" word. In the 1960s, that "progressed" to negro (forgive my use, just making a point). In the 1970s, "black" was common. In the 1980s, the expression "African American" began to appear.

If in 2020, someone decides African American has a negative connotation, I'll use whatever term comes next. Being courteous and respectful to the requests of others never goes out of style.

How about we all call ourselves Americans? We kick butt when we do.

[ashburnskinsfan]

Why is it a bad thing to racially profile people. If people of a middle eastern descent are bombing areas around the world i'm not gonna hold up the indie rocker, grandma and redneck in an airprt to do a random check on them.

Racial profiling in law enforcement is a bad thing. Not because of political correctness, it's just bad security.

There are millions of people in the country who are of middle-eastern descent and an extremely small number of them are any type of security threat. Not all radical Islamists are from the Middle East anyway. Radical Islam has a strong presence in Asia (Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim country). Richard Reid the shoe bomber was a white English guy, one of the London bombers was from Jamaica, and the various American Al Qaeda members captured so far wouldn't have met your profiling criteria.

So if security focuses on race, it's easy to see how terrorists can bypass this. What's even worse, by stopping millions of law-abiding people based solely on their skin color you place a huge burden on security (which does not have unlimited resources) that stops them focusing on suspicious behavior.

For example, the LAX bomber in '99 was caught, not because the border official thought he was a terrorist, but because she thought his behavior was 'hinky'. That, combined with the fact that it was a quiet day allowed her and her colleagues to thoroughly examine his van and the result was that a Christmas bombing at LAX was avoided two years before 9/11.

Similarly if someone is wearing a heavy coat in a crowded place on a warm summers day, no matter what their skin color, it's reasonable to ask them why. Maybe they are concealing a bomb or a weapon, maybe they are a shoplifter, or maybe they have a legitimate reason. But their behavior justifies the question being asked.

Profiling on behavior is good, profiling on race is ineffective. :2cents:

[Barney B]

While reading these boards over the years, I've seen many posts by people complaining about political correctness. I'm pretty sure that every one of those posts was written by a white guy (oh, sorry, "European-American").

Not saying that's it's right or wrong, I just find it interesting.

[Cdowwe]

Easy. Yes. I just read today that a small town wont have Jesus in their nativity scence because it might offend someone. I cant wait to see how far this country will go in the coming years.

[ashburnskinsfan]

Easy. Yes. I just read today that a small town wont have Jesus in their nativity scence because it might offend someone. I cant wait to see how far this country will go in the coming years.

If that's an accurate description of events, then that's an example of stupidity 'ruining the country', not PC. If you have a nativity display it's kinda dumb not to include the main attraction. Now if the story is about public funding of a nativity display then there is a different issue at stake.

Like others have posted, 'ruin' is a little melodramatic.

[dfitzo53]

I just see no sense in trying to make your job sound better than what it is or trying to seperate yourself from other americans by calling yourself an irish american, native american or african american.

Why not take pride in your cultural heritage?

[Midnight Judges]

As was said earlier, I'm pretty sure our country isn't ruined. I do agree that political correctness can go overboard sometimes.

[endzone_dave]

It's gotten so bad I was too afraid to ask an African American lady at work if she went shopping on Black Friday.

[PokerPacker]

why do the animators have to hate on Conan so bad, hes so good with the sword.

that is a picture from the cartoon "Pale Force" written by Jim Gaffigan.

[borninblood]

In my leisure time I wear Tims and throwbacks (style of dress)and i drive a benz....Oh my ....am I a drug dealer? Or is it because I am a child of the 80's/90's that grew up in THE SHADOW OF RFK which influenced my leisure dress and what I feel comfortable in. WE ARE ALL THE SAME I don't give it any more thought when I get dressed than a stereotypical white guy putting on some tight kakis,loafers and a polo why should I be harassed for that. I work my butt off 60 hrs a week in the preferred dress of real drug dealers...A SUIT:cool:

I used to be a grug dealer, I wear jerseys.... I also have full sleeves. Do I get upset when the cops pull me over or eyeball me when i walk up on them? NO! I totally understand why they are doing it. I fit the profile......

[skinfan133]

i am a strong opponent to PC, no matter the case, free speach is imperitive. if everyone where just more chill and laid back and not so uptight and easily ofended we wouldnt be having this discusion.

"if political correctness were a fine red dust, we would all be choking upon it."

-skinfan13, 2002

[Mooney]

....but there is a reason a black person makes 75% of what a white person doing the same job makes, and racism is at the core.

Which jobs are these?

Professional sports? Teachers? Federal employees? Police and Fire departments? Sales? Politics? Fast food? Military?

Does Fed Ex, DHL and UPS actually pay 25% less to black employees than white employees, and get away with it? If so, for bottom line profits, wouldn't it be prudent to have an all black work force?

Please provide just one "apples to apples" example where this tired argument still applies.

[chomerics]

It IS true. According to some, "black" carries a racist connotation. "White" does not. It IS true that some people that have been refered to as "black" wish to be called African American. I have NO problem with that, none whatsoever. I am more than willing to be respectful of their wishes.

The fact that black is considered racist by some, and white is not IS a double standard of sorts. It's also a double standard that I don't care about AT ALL.

In no way does that equate to "hog wants to call everybody n******" and frankly I take offense to the fact that you'd insinuate that. I've stated clearly, whether you choose to accept it or not, that that is not how I feel.

One final time hog, it was HOW I READ YOUR POST, I was trying to politely tell you to re-phrase the question, because I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A RACIST!!!

My god, you keep beating a dead horse and instead understanding why your phrasing could lead others to believe something different, you bring it up again. You would think people could take a little constructive criticism, but unfortunately they are so defensive in nature, they can't understand why it was said to begin with.

Don't know how you can understand that I was not calling you a racist, maybe a little reading comprehension would help, maybe . . . but I doubt it. . .

[chomerics]

*ahem* Then sorry for the overreaction. Chom got under my skin a little earlier.

You need thicker skin. . .

:2cents:

[chomerics]

Which jobs are these?

Professional sports? Teachers? Federal employees? Police and Fire departments? Sales? Politics? Fast food? Military?

Does Fed Ex, DHL and UPS actually pay 25% less to black employees than white employees, and get away with it? If so, for bottom line profits, wouldn't it be prudent to have an all black work force?

Please provide just one "apples to apples" example where this tired argument still applies.

Google glass ceiling and Federal Glass Ceiling Commission. . .

Here is an exerpt. . .

The "glass ceiling" refers to the barriers that often confront Ethnic Americans and women in trying to reach the upper echelons of corporate America. According to a 1995 study commissioned by the Federal Glass Ceiling Commission, 97% of the senior managers of the Fortune 1000 Industrial and Fortune 500 are white, and 95-97% are male. This is occuring while 57% of the workforce is either Ethnic minorities, woman, or both. The study also found that African, Hispanic (Latino), and Asian Americans do not earn the same pay for comparable positions, African Americans earning an astounding 21% less than their white counterparts in the same job.

Here is another link. I know the data is dated, but it is still very disparaging. There is a $15,000 difference between a black man with a BS, a woman with a BS and a white male. The white male makes on average $47K while the black man makes on average $32K and the white female makes $31K. It works across the board in similar jobs as well.

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/glass.html

It is a well known report which did the study, and until people of color and women are treated the same as a white male, there will be a need for affirmative action. I abhor the law, but it is a necessary evil because racism is still very prevalent in America, and I have witnessed it first hand.

:2cents:

[Mooney]

It is a well known report which did the study, and until people of color and women are treated the same as a white male, there will be a need for affirmative action. I abhor the law, but it is a necessary evil because racism is still very prevalent in America, and I have witnessed it first hand.

Googled it and still couldn't find one actual example. All I get is "studies show...."

In the real world, your "fact" is not true. Until just one example of it can be demonstrated, please refrain from parroting exaggerated statistics to bolster your position and then hiding behind vague and dated studies.

I too believe in affirmative action laws, where needed. Yes, their are glass ceilings in major corportations, and they apply to all of us. The glass ceilings have more to do with nepotism and class-ism than anything else.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Here is another link. I know the data is dated, but it is still very disparaging. There is a $15,000 difference between a black man with a BS, a woman with a BS and a white male. The white male makes on average $47K while the black man makes on average $32K and the white female makes $31K. It works across the board in similar jobs as well.

It is a well known report which did the study, and until people of color and women are treated the same as a white male, there will be a need for affirmative action. I abhor the law, but it is a necessary evil because racism is still very prevalent in America, and I have witnessed it first hand.

The problem is that in my experience affirmative action doesn't fix the problem. In fact it seems to increase it, and in the several personal examples I will give later, they've made the issue considerably worse in my mind. What I really think affirmative action has done (regardless of what it's trying to do) is to create a situation where people who are not qualified or the best candidate for a job, get the job. In many circumstances this leads to a net LOSS for the company, not a gain. Now, I'm not saying that it's appropriate for someone to be paid less for the same work, by the same company; but I think it's less appropriate for a company to be forced or pushed towards hiring a less qualified applicant because that person fits a minority quota requirement.

If we REALLY want equality in employment, which is what affirmative action is supposed to be about, we need to start removing the double standards in employment. We need to require an applicant to meet the same criteria, regardless of their gender, age, or ethnic backgroud. No more "Well the female firefighter candidate only has to drag that 200lb dummy 50 yards, not 100 yards." or "We'll accept a female candidate with an Bachelors degree, but a male candidate must have a Masters degree."

I've got several PERSONAL experiences with the downside of affirmative action...

a. I went to college with a female classmate who got into the program SOLEY (by her own words) because as a woman she could get a 100% free ride in a technical program because of her gender.

b. I lost two job opportunities where I was told flat-out they wouldn't hire me because they needed a "minority" hire to fill quota requirements in Federal contracts the company had.

c. I lost out (twice) on a job opportunity with the Hartford (CT) Fire Department because they were going to fill the desk job with a woman to meet their minority hiring requirement. They went through four different women over a 2+ year period before finally hiring a guy for the job.

d. The company I now work for hires predominantly recent college grads to fill our "Engineer" positions. In the last 4 years we've hired probably about 9-10 engineers, all but two of whom meet "minority" criteria. They're almost exclusively graduates of one engineering school here in the central Massachusetts area. The two white male engineers we've hired in that time are both solid employees who can get their work done efficiently and correctly. The other "minority" hires have been moved around to less intensive positions, had their workloads reduced, or had to be given assistance getting their work done.

e. Before anyone wants to comment on how racist/sexist I am (which in part would be correct) let me say this... The one job I've applied for since graduating college in 1994 that I've passionately wanted, I lost to a woman after being one of the final three candidates. She was much better qualified and experienced than I was for the job. I have no problem whatsoever with not getting that job. I wasn't the best candidate. She was. Good for her.

[Bang]

I think saying that anything has "ruined our country" is a little overdramatic.

So, while I'm not a big PC fan, it hasn't "ruined" anything. Last I checked, we were still the greatest nation on the planet in every conceivable way. (Though I know that's not a PC position these days.)

Cheers to that.

~Bang