Stop the Negitive posts! One man's rant...

[TMK9973]

Half the stuff we are asking for doesn’t even make sense! It's almost comical about how the threads all say the same things

They all start off saying our first mistake is not keeping the players together. That we have too high of a turnover every year. Fair enough - I agree

But then they go on about who should be cut, who should be traded, who should be benched... there is a word for that, its called TURNOVER!

Which is it? Blow up the team and try again (What we do every year) or keep the team together and make minor tweaks?

But besides the players - If all you want to do is talk about how bad the team is, stop watching. My friends who follow the cowboys are doing enough of that. I don't need to hear that from Skins fans. The posts saying that we should loose so we don't help the cowboys??? That just makes me mad.

I trust Gibbs. I think something changed this week. But regardless - I believe and trust in Gibbs. We should debate the moves, but simply to post to say the team sucks and everyone needs to be cut - why are you even a fan?

I said it in another post, and I'll say it again. I am a Skins fan. This is what I do. I watch every week and root for them. I get pumped up for the game and enjoy doing it. I enjoy the excitement, and, yes, I even enjoy the disappointment (A little). I enjoy being "All in" and feeling a complete high from a win. The only way to feel the complete high in a win, is to feel the complete low in a lose. You can't have one without the other.

I will watch, I will root, and I will dream. And yes, I will keep track of what needs to happen for the skins to go to the playoffs. No matter how far fetched.

You don't like it? Don't care!

oh - And one more side rant - If you are under 30, don't post about Gibbs. You don't know. You have no idea what he did in 81-92. This franchise was a mess who had not been to playoffs in 6 years and had blown all their draft picks under George Allen. The man turned the franchise around. He was not perfect the 1st time. He never went 16-0, they lost games. They lost a lot in the beginning of the years (Look up his Sept records vs his Dec record). But Gibbs is one of, if not the, greatest coaches in the history of the game. If you are basing your thoughts of Gibbs based on 3 years, one of which he won 11 games, you have no clue what you are talking about.

BTW - The thing about Gibbs being the greatest coach of all time, that's not just Redskins fans. In 1990 (I think it was 1990), Sport Magazine actually declared that on their Cover. Better then John Madden, better then Vince, better then the Bear. It was accepted knowledge that he was one of, if not the, greatest ever. He invented the 1 back offense, he invented the 2 tight end formation, he was the first coach to really sub players after every play based on down and distance, hell, he was one of the first, of for 5 years, only, coach who really had OL pull. He invented the counter Trey.

He’s not perfect – But he is the best there is and I still have faith.

[Soc12]

Httr! Im With You Brotha!

[MeNoRevs]

oh - And one more side rant - If you are under 30, don't post about Gibbs. You don't know. You have no idea what he did in 81-92. This franchise was a mess who had not been to playoffs in 6 years and had blown all their draft picks under George Allen. The man turned the franchise around. He was not perfect the 1st time. He never went 16-0, they lost games. They lost a lot in the beginning of the years (Look up his Sept records vs his Dec record). But Gibbs is one of, if not the, greatest coaches in the history of the game. If you are basing your thoughts of Gibbs based on 3 years, one of which he won 11 games, you have no clue what you are talking about.

BTW - The thing about Gibbs being the greatest coach of all time, that's not just Redskins fans. In 1990 (I think it was 1990), Sport Magazine actually declared that on their Cover. Better then John Madden, better then Vince, better then the Bear. It was accepted knowledge that he was one of, if not the, greatest ever. He invented the 1 back offense, he invented the 2 tight end formation, he was the first coach to really sub players after every play based on down and distance, hell, he was one of the first, of for 5 years, only, coach who really had OL pull. He invented the counter Trey.

He’s not perfect – But he is the best there is and I still have faith.

Where to start with this....

I am under 30 and I will post about Gibbs all I want because we are not playing in the past we are playing in the present. The past only buys you memories, which is evident by your post.

Faith is great, it really is, but when does reality take over? Just like everything in life, things change. Football in general changes, the players, the phylosophes, the speed, etc.

I am glad Gibbs is a like able guy, I am glad how treats people, his players, etc. But there is one thing that Gibbs is now that he wasn't in the past, and that's GM. He decided on what players play, and which ones go. There has been plenty of mistakes there.

So when does to days results equal our out way the historical slack that has obviously been given.

[steve57]

11. Please do not use the “Quote” feature to quote huge blocks of text or pictures. If you would like to respond to the contents of a particular post, simply quote the sentence or idea that you're commenting upon, not necessarily the entire post. It wastes space on the database and unnecessarily extends and clutters threads.

Well, I'm considerably over 30 and remember the glory days, under both Gibbs and Allen. A lot of good times, to be sure. But Gibbs is no longer a great coach, especially in Today's NFL. The game has passed him by. And compounding that fact is that he works for one of the most interfering owners in the League, who will give him whatever he wants -- except a competent GM to evaluate those "wants" and plug them into a Team direction. This is a bad team with, in season 3, no chemistry. His old teams had chemistry -- and a fierce desire to win that was almost always present. The current edition of the Skins lays down and dies like dogs against hated division rivals, not to mention bad teams like the Raiders, Titans, and Bucs. What can you say to that? It's a weekly truthtelling that is televised.

[borninblood]

You might as well bang your head on a wall......

[cdubcu]

Well, I'm considerably over 30 and remember the glory days, under both Gibbs and Allen. A lot of good times, to be sure. But Gibbs is no longer a great coach, especially in Today's NFL. The game has passed him by. And compounding that fact is that he works for one of the most interfering owners in the League, who will give him whatever he wants -- except a competent GM to evaluate those "wants" and plug them into a Team direction. This is a bad team with, in season 3, no chemistry. His old teams had chemistry -- and a fierce desire to win that was almost always present. The current edition of the Skins lays down and dies like dogs against hated division rivals, not to mention bad teams like the Raiders, Titans, and Bucs. What can you say to that? It's a weekly truthtelling that is televised.

Most of this is due to the fact that he inherited horrible players and yet he still took them to the playoffs. The best players on the team are gibbs guys. if the game passrd him by then how did he get them to the playoffs after only 1 appearance in 15 years to 1 appearance in his second year? People said the game passed Vermeil by as well after his first years back at St Louis nad then he won a super bowl. If gibbs cant turn things around then we are in big trouble. We already had the winningest avtive coach here run out of town after 1 season. We had the premier college football coach run out of town and if our own hall of fame coach is run out of town then the franchise will be done for a long long time. If these coaches cannot win here then who can?

[MeNoRevs]

Most of this is due to the fact that he inherited horrible players and yet he still took them to the playoffs. The best players on the team are gibbs guys. if the game passrd him by then how did he get them to the playoffs after only 1 appearance in 15 years to 1 appearance in his second year? People said the game passed Vermeil by as well after his first years back at St Louis nad then he won a super bowl. If gibbs cant turn things around then we are in big trouble. We already had the winningest avtive coach here run out of town after 1 season. We had the premier college football coach run out of town and if our own hall of fame coach is run out of town then the franchise will be done for a long long time. If these coaches cannot win here then who can?

oh please enlighten me...

Who is, and who is not Gibbs guys? By the 3rd year you should be able to fill a team with the players you want, correct?

[steve57]

Most of this is due to the fact that he inherited horrible players and yet he still took them to the playoffs. The best players on the team are gibbs guys. if the game passrd him by then how did he get them to the playoffs after only 1 appearance in 15 years to 1 appearance in his second year? People said the game passed Vermeil by as well after his first years back at St Louis nad then he won a super bowl. If gibbs cant turn things around then we are in big trouble. We already had the winningest avtive coach here run out of town after 1 season. We had the premier college football coach run out of town and if our own hall of fame coach is run out of town then the franchise will be done for a long long time. If these coaches cannot win here then who can?

Hmmm. We got to the playoffs last year largely due to a good defense (that kept things close, since the Offense couldn't score) that has now regressed. Defense is not a Joe specialty as I recall. Vermeil remained in contact with the game, much like Parcells, doing the ESPN thing. Gibbs did not, since he opted to do the Thunder Road deal. The one thing Gibbs was known for -- Offense, he signed over to another coach -- due to the feeble performance of Brunell (his man), et al. (See Gibbs) during the playoff "run" of last year (against some fairly sorry or struggling teams btw). This version of Gibbs and this team in no way represents the coach and team that won it all oh so many years ago. He's a hood ornament on a fancy looking car without an engine (heart). The actual "running out" process is done by the owner -- who gets bored easily. And at this point, I think we can assume, given the money that's been shelled out for this underachieving team, that the owner is getting bored again.

[hail2skins]

If gibbs cant turn things around then we are in big trouble. We already had the winningest avtive coach here run out of town after 1 season. We had the premier college football coach run out of town and if our own hall of fame coach is run out of town then the franchise will be done for a long long time. If these coaches cannot win here then who can?

You know, I don't even know how they even manage to play the Super Bowl on a yearly basis if Gibbs isn't there. After all, no other coach can possibly take a team to the big game

Who exactly do you think played a large part in running Marty and the OBC out of town? We know definitely about Marty and the OBC has alluded to the meddling after he left town? And who brought back Gibbs in large part because he was facing an almost certain fan mutiny?

Face it, a lot of this starts at the top........from a guy who insists on having a big name and will not hire a real GM who then in turn will go into the weeds and hopefully land the NEXT Joe Gibbs.

[ThomasRoane]

Hmmm. We got to the playoffs last year largely due to a good defense (that kept things close, since the Offense couldn't score) that has now regressed. Defense is not a Joe specialty as I recall. Vermeil remained in contact with the game, much like Parcells, doing the ESPN thing. Gibbs did not, since he opted to do the Thunder Road deal. The one thing Gibbs was known for -- Offense, he signed over to another coach -- due to the feeble performance of Brunell (his man), et al. (See Gibbs) during the playoff "run" of last year (against some fairly sorry or struggling teams btw). This version of Gibbs and this team in no way represents the coach and team that won it all oh so many years ago. He's a hood ornament on a fancy looking car without an engine (heart). The actual "running out" process is done by the owner -- who gets bored easily. And at this point, I think we can assume, given the money that's been shelled out for this underachieving team, that the owner is getting bored again.

So, the solution is to fire Gibbs and start all over...again?!?! Good thing you aren't the GM for Pittsburgh. Cowher would have never had the chance to win that Super Bowl. Now people like you clamor for him to be our coach.

The reason the Patriots, Steelers and Broncos are consistently usually three of the best franchises in the NFL is because they give their coaches time. The one-hit wonders like the Saints this year will turn into the Falcons next year. When they have to play a real schedule. And so what if Gibbs is still figuring out the new NFL? You don't think he's earned the right (by giving us the only 3 Super Bowls in our history) to learn a little on the job? Chemistry takes time. He added some new pieces and he had to know it would take time to gell. Gibbs warned fans from the beginning of the season not to expect too much. We didn't listen.

But anyways, what is your grand plan for success? Since people like you have it all figured it out. Ooohh wait! I know. We need to use the draft!! So we can take a chance on more winners like Desmond Howard, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Rod Gardner and now...Carlos Rogers. Cause that's surely working out for us now!

[CapitalDefense]

With the 5th pick in the 2007 NFL draft the Washington Redskins select....

Thats what our faith in Gibbs got us this year. We put our faith in him...

[christopher44]

Well after 3 seasons and yet more big names signed it looks like our problems have returned.The big one being chemistry.Too many big contracts,big names and little results.I think Gibbs has lost contact with his players or they will need another season or two to gel which by that time Gibbs will no longer be on the sideline.Well be lucky to see him there next year.

[ThomasRoane]

With the 5th pick in the 2007 NFL draft the Washington Redskins select....

Thats what our faith in Gibbs got us this year. We put our faith in him...

Again I'll ask; what is your grand plan for a championship? It's a lot easier to sit on your couch eating cheetos and talk about how the team sucks. Since you know so much about the game why don't you enlighten the front office on what they can do.

[steve57]

"So, the solution is to fire Gibbs and start all over...again?!?! Good thing you aren't the GM for Pittsburgh. Cowher would have never had the chance to win that Super Bowl. Now people like you clamor for him to be our coach."

They have a GM in Pittsburgh? That's refreshing. Why don't we try that here?

"The reason the Patriots, Steelers and Broncos are consistently usually three of the best franchises in the NFL is because they give their coaches time."

And those teams, your examples, all build primarily through the draft.

"The one-hit wonders like the Saints this year will turn into the Falcons next year. When they have to play a real schedule."

Just like a real schudule interrupted our climb to the top this year? And we still have to play the Falcons this year, so be careful, you may be dissing someone better.

"And so what if Gibbs is still figuring out the new NFL?"

It is professional football, I think it's ok have some competence expectations in season 3.

"You don't think he's earned the right (by giving us the only 3 Super Bowls in our history) to learn a little on the job? "

I expect him to have learned more than a little by season 3. And he certainly has more than enough help to lead him through the tangle and confusion. And no, I don't think you earn some sort of ongoing never ending cushion against criticism for past services.

"Chemistry takes time."

True

"He added some new pieces and he had to know it would take time to gell. "

There's evey reason to believe, at this point, that they were the wrong pieces. Brunell alone is whopper No. 1. Letting a "core" Skin Pierce get away

is another aspect of this "piece gathering" that also causes concern.

"Gibbs warned fans from the beginning of the season not to expect too much. We didn't listen."

I'd say most coaches play the low expectation card in their generic statements. Gibbs in no different, in fact he's better than most at saying next to nothing in his postgame comments.

"But anyways, what is your grand plan for success?"

Start with a real GM. Get a young and hungry coach rather than yet another blast from the fantasy football past.

"Since people like you have it all figured it out. Ooohh wait! I know. We need to use the draft!! So we can take a chance on more winners like Desmond Howard, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Rod Gardner and now...Carlos Rogers. Cause that's surely working out for us now!"

As long as Dan is the effective GM, you're probably right about the Skins use of the draft, which works about as well these days as their free-agent shopping sprees.

[TMK9973]

It's amazing - Apperently, last year was the exception and this year was the true Gibbs. Why can't it be different. Why can't this be the exception and last year be the truth?

Is today's NFL different? Sure - It's set up to aviod teams from being great for long. I'm sick of people saying "Well, Teams like the Saints and 49ers turned it around". How do you know? How do you know they aren't just having one good year? Like the Skins did last year? Last year something like 9 of the 12 teams in the playoffs had not been there the year before.

I don't buy that the game has passed Gibbs by. The man wins. Football, Nascar, or even racketball (He was a national Champion in the 70's). The man wins.

Last year he used motivation. This year, well, things were exposed. But he wil fix it.

Debeate the moves the team makes. Discusses games and upcomming games. Reveiw history and look forward. But don't just post Gibbs sucks, synder sucks, all the players suck, etc....

What's the point? We do you even follow the skins if that's all you want to do? Doesn't sound like fun to me...

[Guest Rafterman]

At 49 I remember the glory days of the Redskins well. They're nice memories, nothing more.

The main problem is the lack of a strong GM to temper the owner and HC's desires with reality.

That's how dynasties are built in the NFL, it's a balance.

Until they find that balance, you can look forward too many more negative posts.

[fansince62]

"The reason the Patriots, Steelers and Broncos are consistently usually three of the best franchises in the NFL is because they give their coaches time. The one-hit wonders like the Saints this year will turn into the Falcons next year. When they have to play a real schedule. And so what if Gibbs is still figuring out the new NFL? You don't think he's earned the right (by giving us the only 3 Super Bowls in our history) to learn a little on the job? Chemistry takes time. He added some new pieces and he had to know it would take time to gell. Gibbs warned fans from the beginning of the season not to expect too much. We didn't listen.

But anyways, what is your grand plan for success? Since people like you have it all figured it out. Ooohh wait! I know. We need to use the draft!! So we can take a chance on more winners like Desmond Howard, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Rod Gardner and now...Carlos Rogers. Cause that's surely working out for us now!"

well...jeepers Mr Wilson...maybe he doesn't have to have a plan. maybe....just maybe...the results over the last 14 years speak for themselves. The one ingredient that, almost without exception, has been missing is SUCCESS! Now, self-affirmed geniuses like yourself can plumb this board and begin to stitch together the outlines of a theory - you can do that can't ya big guy? tell ya what...some of us will give you a head start since you are apparently either too lazy or intellectually dishonest to do so on your own:

- no consistent identity expressed through personnel management

- horrific personnel management (draft and FA)

- no franchise QB

- coaching carousel

- big buck FAs stopping off to tank up the ole bank account on thier way to retirement

- no consistent offensive philosophy

- an owner who, of all things, was an incompetent early on when it came to PR

- an owner who, early on, exercised decision-making authoritities that far exceeded his football wisdom/experience

- a stadium that has no real personality; it's a venue for advetising more than anything else

- highest prices in the NFL for a consistently mediocre product

- players who routinely cannot execute the fundamentals

take the pieces and frame your own story. it has all been hashed over a 1000 times. the record is irrefutable - and that is your main problem.

Character that is not complemented by performance - adds up to a disappointing bottom line on most ledgers. Apologists and Polyannas may believe otherwise, but others might expect...even demand....better. We all set our standards I guess. Yours appear to be fairly low.......

[Guest Rafterman]

It's amazing - Apperently, last year was the exception and this year was the true Gibbs. Why can't it be different. Why can't this be the exception and last year be the truth?

Is today's NFL different? Sure - It's set up to aviod teams from being great for long. I'm sick of people saying "Well, Teams like the Saints and 49ers turned it around". How do you know? How do you know they aren't just having one good year? Like the Skins did last year? Last year something like 9 of the 12 teams in the playoffs had not been there the year before.

I don't buy that the game has passed Gibbs by. The man wins. Football, Nascar, or even racketball (He was a national Champion in the 70's). The man wins.

Last year he used motivation. This year, well, things were exposed. But he wil fix it.

Debeate the moves the team makes. Discusses games and upcomming games. Reveiw history and look forward. But don't just post Gibbs sucks, synder sucks, all the players suck, etc....

What's the point? We do you even follow the skins if that's all you want to do? Doesn't sound like fun to me...

:applause:

Extremely WELL SAID!

[NAILBOMB9]

Where to start with this....

I am under 30 and I will post about Gibbs all I want because we are not playing in the past we are playing in the present. The past only buys you memories, which is evident by your post.

Faith is great, it really is, but when does reality take over? Just like everything in life, things change. Football in general changes, the players, the phylosophes, the speed, etc.

I am glad Gibbs is a like able guy, I am glad how treats people, his players, etc. But there is one thing that Gibbs is now that he wasn't in the past, and that's GM. He decided on what players play, and which ones go. There has been plenty of mistakes there.

So when does to days results equal our out way the historical slack that has obviously been given.

Dude ALL of your posts are DEAD ON!!! Great points man, I am as grateful as any Redskin that we had/have Gibbs. But in his second go around he is getting any and EVERY pass there is. It's GW's fault, it's Saunders fault, it's the players fault, it's the 50 yard lines fault. All I know is that RIGHT NOW the results are definately sub-par for what players we have. And thank goodness we had our defense last year, it's the ONLY thing that got us into the post season. I have hope that Gibbs will eventually be able to relate to the new NFL he's come into his second go around, but with the way they're playing right now it is definately hard.

[cphil006]

somw people just like to vent.

[ThomasRoane]

But anyways, what is your grand plan for success?

Start with a real GM. Get a young and hungry coach rather than yet another blast from the fantasy football past.

Oh really? How many superbowls did we win from 1993 to 1999? When we had a GM and a hungry coach? Oh yeah...none!

Football isn't an exact science. There is no proven, failsafe program that worked. Pittsburgh took forever to get their Superbowl. Sure, they did a great job selecting talent but couldn't or wouldn't pay to keep them. Pats have a good scouting staff as well. They select good players and it helps. But doesn't mean they're infallible either. They just got owned by the Jets last week.

Last year the Redskins invested a lot of money in their scouting dept. Already did a good job in getting Golston. Cooley was a great move. Campbell played with good poise. That would appear to be a good move. At least he didn't puke on his first visit to the huddle; ala Shuler. Many here on this board lamented how we blew it by trading picks for both those players. Looks like they'll be around for a long time.

The only thing I'll give you on Gibbs is being too loyal to MB. But that will pay off for Campbell. Cause he'll get the same treatment. Other than that...you guys have no right to make judgements on the current staff or front office. You don't watch the hours of film. You don't see all the drills and practices they go thru. None of us really know for sure what the real problem is. But most of us know we have the right guy in Gibbs to set things right.

[LD0506]

We are reminded here daily that one definition of fan is a tool that blows air.

[fansince62]

"The only thing I'll give you on Gibbs is being too loyal to MB. But that will pay off for Campbell. Cause he'll get the same treatment. Other than that...you guys have no right to make judgements on the current staff or front office. You don't watch the hours of film. You don't see all the drills and practices they go thru. None of us really know for sure what the real problem is. But most of us know we have the right guy in Gibbs to set things right."

sooooo...the theory in play is that if one isn't a direct participant one is either not qualified or unentitled to post critical commentary? what a crock! you have to be posting for effect - no one can be that small minded! I don't have to watch film (and btw...many folks tape these games and review them) or be an NFL coach to think reflectively. this must be the comedy hour! cut it out - you're cracking me up so bad it hurts!

oh, btw, populism, in the wrong hands/minds...can be a very dangerous thing.

[desioreo87]

We need a way better scouting department and GM. Gibbs is a fine coach but we are picking some sorry ass players to play on our team. Our use of the draft is apalling. When other teams are drafting youth to build a franchise around we are drafting 29+ year olds to win in the next 2-3 seasons. The Colts didn't do that. They drafted Harrison, Manning, and James and built there team around that. THey developed their franchise through youth and they have been a top 10 team in the NFL for 5 to 6 years.

The redskins have now found their franchise QB ( I hope), THROUGH THE DRAFT, they found the centerpiece of their defense in ST, THROUGH THE DRAFT, they got CP who is now our franchise running back( acquired through Bailey (top 5 CB), who we got IN THE DRAFT). THe cornerstones of this team have been built on in the draft. True, its never a sure thing but the draft is where franchises are made. If the Skins hope to return to the glory years they need to find their players through the draft instead of paying free agents inordinate sums of money to come here and stink it up.

[hail2skins]

Oh really? How many superbowls did we win from 1993 to 1999? When we had a GM and a hungry coach? Oh yeah...none!

True, but you know what......after a couple of lean years under Norv, he at least had us at respectability again. Then he lost patience with Gus and went to a "green" Trent (no pun intended), which probably cost us a season. Then the ownership fiasco kept us from retaining Trent.......who knows what may have happened if he had stayed.

The problem is under Snyder, this franchise has largely become a joke, not financially, but in perception and results. I'm really torn on Gibbs. On the one hand, you have to salute what he's done for the organization in the past, and he ceertainly deserves the chance to turn it around, and you'd hate to see him go out a loser. On the other hand, when on earth is this team going to look towards its future rather than its past?