gca61087 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 What garbage. You are really showing your age. If you want to criticize Gibbs II go ahead, that is fair. But to post this crap about anyone coulda won in his situation back in the day is laughable. Winning three Super Bowls with three different QBs (and really different teams all together) remains the most impressive coaching feat the NFL has ever seen. You just owned Joe Gibbs? You have got to be kidding. :doh: I acknowledged his QB mentoring abilities. Thats about all I'll give him. He relied on a great line and running game. With those gone, he is not the god people like you make him out to be. Where is his offensive genius now? We have the most predictable offense in the NFL. Some innovator. A true HOF coach would have this team at .500 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 He is trying guys. The only thing he can do is look up the numbers, because he can not possibly KNOW like we do...he is 19. He has read. As far as the title goes............Not in your lifetime. Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gca61087 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 He is trying guys.The only thing he can do is look up the numbers, because he can not possibly KNOW like we do...he is 19. He has read. As far as the title goes............Not in your lifetime. Blondie and you know, watched the taped recordings of their superbowls from that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightAgent Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Bad, but worse is the feeling that we had right before Joe and that is now multiplied: who can fix this franchise? If we are 3-6 with Joe Gibbs...who could fix this? Never thought of that....really scary:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Dude, no offense but you have no idea what you are talking about. 1. Yes, they had great lines, but they did not dominate everyone. Ever hear of the body bag game? Remember the 86 NFC Championship game when Jay Schroeder was on his back all day? I'll assume you don't since you hadn't been born yet. The Hogs were not one unit, the group changed over time and had several unheralded players. Ever hear of R.C. Theilman? Ed Simmons? Mark Addickes? Probably not. They weren't very good, but they were Hogs and gibbs and bugel found a way to get the job done with them. 2. They did not have a series of great running backs. They had one, Riggo, and he was at the end of his career. Joe Washington, Kelvin Bryant, George Rogers, Timmy Smith, Jamie Morris, Earnest Byner, Ricky Ervins. Good NFL players no doubt. But well short of greatness. 3. Gary Clark and Art Monk are self explanatory. I guess. I loved Gary, but he's no better than Tana. And yeah, I'd love to have a guy like Monk around. I'm not sure what your point is on this though. 4. What is a quarterback who manages games but has the ability to play lights out? An inconsistent quarterback. Theismann, Schroeder, Williams, Humphries, Rypien were serviceable players Gibbs got the most out of. A lot like we hoped he'd do with Ramsey or Brunell. 5. Yep, a defense that held its own behind a dominant offense. Well, the last two years our defense held its own behind a bad/mediocre offense. That's even better. You, sir, would not have fallen ass-backwards into a super bowl with those teams. Nobody would have. It's not like they had dominant players that just went out there and won easy. Do you know how many Gibbs Redskins are in the Hall of Fame? ONE. Riggo. That's it. No Monk, no Clark. No Jacoby, no Grimm, no Lachey. No Byner. No Wilbur Marshall, no Dexter Manley. Just Riggo. And they won Super Bowls in the era of dominant 49er teams, Giants and Bears loaded with superstars. They won because Joe Gibbs did a phenomenal coaching job. I wish he could get the same stuff out of our players the last 3 years, but it hasn't happened. I wish i knew why because the losing sucks. I'm still not sure of the point of your post. You did not "own" joe gibbs, I actually have no idea what you mean by that. What I do know is you drastically overrate your sense of Redskins history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Dude, no offense but you have no idea what you are talking about.They won because Joe Gibbs did a phenomenal coaching job. I wish he could get the same stuff out of our players the last 3 years, but it hasn't happened. I wish i knew why because the losing sucks. I'm still not sure of the point of your post. You did not "own" joe gibbs, I actually have no idea what you mean by that. What I do know is you drastically overrate your sense of Redskins history. I cut some of your post, as we are not suppose to quote large segments. But, I do like what you had to say. Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Ever suppose the reasons those superbowls had so many runs was because they were blow-outs and that Gibbs put his foot on the break. If you don't think Superbowl 87 was about the Aerial attack of Doug Williams and Ricky Sanders as much or more than Timmy Smith (another snubbed hofer. Afterally, he had one good game in his entire career.) They broke scoring and yardage records twice. Sigh, young 'uns. They's so ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskingluvr Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Let's take a look at those 80's/'92 Superbowl teams...in order of importance.1. They had the most dominate offensive line in football, perhaps of all time. The hogs obliterated any defensive line they faced. There really was no answer to these guys. They gave Gibbs the ability to control the clock and tempo of the game. 2. They had a series of great runningbacks. Riggo especially. These guys were constantly expected to, and did, carry the ball 30-40 times a game. Behind the hogs anybody looked good, and they dominated on the ground 3. Gary Clark and Art Monk. Self explanitory. 4. Quarterbacks that managed games, but had the ability to play lights out. Doug Williams is the perfect example here. 5. A defense that held its own behind the most dominate offense in the game. I'm sorry, but I could have fallen a**-backwards into a superbowl with those teams. What a complicated gameplan. Run 40 times behind the best offensive line in football, and throw 20-25 times with great success off play action. I'll give Gibbs the credit for mentoring his young QB's and getting them ready to play though. He is perhaps the best at it and that's why it scares me that we haven't seen Campbell. Either Gibbs has failed at progressing him, or JC doesn't have it. Now, when faced with adversity, what can Gibbs do with a struggling offense? Nothing. Now in his third year, the offense has remained stagnant. Even last year when we went 10-6, that was very rarely due to great offensive play. Our defense was great and kept us in games. Until our last 3 huge wins, the offense only scored more that 21 points 3 times out of 13 games. 52 against SF, 24 against St. Louis, and 35 against Tampa. St. Louis and SF were bottom-tier defenses. You can't get away with running the ball 40 times behind this line. I love Joe's philosophy, but when it was unsuccessful he showed no ability to change and adapt to his current talent. He's had the same problem in the past too. It took a career ending injury to replace the struggling Theismann. Thus led to the hiring of Al Saunders (thats right, Gibbs was REPLACED), whose system has fallen victim to Brunell's inability to strech the field and open up those screens that everyone complains about. If we had anything resembling a downfield threat, the underneath plays and running game would open up, and you would see this offense start to roll. Santana especially is great making plays after the catch on underneath routes and screens. ARE would greatly benefit here too. Since we have playmaking recievers and a great offensive mind at coordinator, the blame falls on Brunell and the line. Because teams know we have such a hard going deep, they just blitz and take away the underneath routes. There is rarely more than one safety deep, and the deep routes are often in man-to-man coverage. This should be easily recognized throughout the game and with halftime adjustments. The problem is, we have nothing to adjust to. The only answer here is a QB change. We have seen what Brunell's limitations, which I admit are partially due to protection, have done to this offense. He makes us completely one dimensional. Whether it be Campbell or Collins, I don't care. We just need to give teams something else to gameplan for. This offense has become so predictable it's pathetic. I'm sure i'm not the only one who can sit at home and call out exactly whats coming. I'm right about 70% of the time, so imagine what professional defensive coordinators are getting. I'm 19 with no coaching experince, and I'm calling the skins out on 3 out of 4 plays. For everyone who will immediately reply calling out the O-line: I can probably count on two hands the number of great throws Brunell has made with protection. And also, he causes his protection to break down alot of the time by dropping back WAY too far. He has no pocket presence and is afraid to stand in there and, god forbid, take a hit while delivering the football. Not to mention our blocking schemes are just stupid most of the time. We'll strand TE's against DE's and not help with the edge rushers. Last year we ran alot of max protect (8 men blocking) to solve this problem. This falls on Bugel, not the players. For everyone who will immediatley reply calling out the defense: They have had flashes of great play. Overall, I think they have played decently enough to win games, but have given up WAY too many big plays that have killed us. The Eagles game was a perfect example. Last week we were already down 17-3 before half but had held McNabb to like 4-16 for 132 yards and the 2 TD. With the exception of the big plays, we were OWNING him. The Eagles started twice in our territory near the end of the half and they were shut down. That kind of play is what is supposed to fire up an offense. They were unable to produce and we went in the half still down 14. An offense that has put up 3 points on the road against your division rivals will win you NO games, regardless of how the defense does. For any Brunell supporters left: Last week's performance destroyed and credible defense of him. For Joe Gibbs: Brunell goes, Bugel goes, and instill some discipline in your defense. The quarterback needs to change and you need to get someone in there that will get this offensive line playing Redskins football, or atleast get them protecting well enough to let Saunders' system succeed. If this defense stops giving up the big plays, they will look alot better and get us back in games. Those three decsions are on YOU Joe Gibbs. I refuse to believe that you will sit and watch the franchise that you made prestegious fall into mediocrity or worse. I am calling you out Joe. Give your fans and your players something to believe in. Shut up kid. We know all that. Now here is the real deal. We just got our new o coordinator. We just got the same o line coaches who developed the hawgs, which incidentally took 5 years to develop, not a few months like they have had. So shut and learn. Watch this line go to a new level each month, and then by next year to one of the top lines, then the next year to possibly the best, then the year after to the outright falt out noone can touch us anymore line. It takes more than a week. I know that is hard for a microwave Mcds walmart internet generation to comprehend, as your view of the wars and terrorism reveals, so shut up, watch, and learn. In 5 years you have the right to comment. Until then you have the right to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sellersfan Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I like you interest in the teams history, but... There is no way the hogs were dominating anybody in the NFL. What made them so great was they were a bunch of average guys "playing their guts out". I think what everyone remembers was they were blue collar guys not wanting attention. They played with synergy(the sum of the parts is greater than each individual) Gibbs created that, and is a big reason why he is in the HOF. No one, and I mean NO ONE has come close to doing what he did, with what he had. Each SB win was improbable for us. The opponents were always better on paper, and we beat them. Why? Because he was the motivator. Gibbs II however I am not sure about. Could it be an age thing? I just dont see the guys responding to Gibbs like they should be. Not sure if the players respect him as much as they should. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin81 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 your 19 years old? well if i am too young to really remember a lot of those days them im sure you are way to young ..... i remember being good and yea they were good .... they arent now so what His age is showing. If it were that easy every coach would have 3 rings. Gibbs was the master of the half time adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqq Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 '83 Superbowl:Riggins - 38 carries for 166 yards. Harmon - 9 carries for 40 yards Other - 5 carries for 70 yards Total: 52 Carries, 276 yards. Theismann had 23 pass attempts. '87 Superbowl: Smith - 22 carries for 202 yards. Bryant - 8 carries for 38 yards. Rogers - 5 carries for 17 yards. Other - 5 carries 25 yards. Total: 40 carries, 282 yards. Williams had 29 pass attempts. Most of the hogs were gone by '92, but they still ran more than they passed. Got a reply for that? I'm obviously the idiot so you must have one. Finally something u said that i agree with...You are an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterwagen Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Did you personally watch any of Gibbs' first tenure? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I feel bad even dignifying this thread with a response, but someone has to tell this guy he is wrong. Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs and 3 different RBs. No other coach has ever done anything like that. Ever. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Let's take a look at those 80's/'92 Superbowl teams...in order of importance.1. They had the most dominate offensive line in football, perhaps of all time. The hogs obliterated any defensive line they faced. There really was no answer to these guys. They gave Gibbs the ability to control the clock and tempo of the game. 2. They had a series of great runningbacks. Riggo especially. These guys were constantly expected to, and did, carry the ball 30-40 times a game. Behind the hogs anybody looked good, and they dominated on the ground 3. Gary Clark and Art Monk. Self explanitory. 4. Quarterbacks that managed games, but had the ability to play lights out. Doug Williams is the perfect example here. 5. A defense that held its own behind the most dominate offense in the game. I'm sorry, but I could have fallen a**-backwards into a superbowl with those teams. What a complicated gameplan. Run 40 times behind the best offensive line in football, and throw 20-25 times with great success off play action. I'll give Gibbs the credit for mentoring his young QB's and getting them ready to play though. He is perhaps the best at it and that's why it scares me that we haven't seen Campbell. Either Gibbs has failed at progressing him, or JC doesn't have it. Now, when faced with adversity, what can Gibbs do with a struggling offense? Nothing. Now in his third year, the offense has remained stagnant. Even last year when we went 10-6, that was very rarely due to great offensive play. Our defense was great and kept us in games. Until our last 3 huge wins, the offense only scored more that 21 points 3 times out of 13 games. 52 against SF, 24 against St. Louis, and 35 against Tampa. St. Louis and SF were bottom-tier defenses. You can't get away with running the ball 40 times behind this line. I love Joe's philosophy, but when it was unsuccessful he showed no ability to change and adapt to his current talent. He's had the same problem in the past too. It took a career ending injury to replace the struggling Theismann. Thus led to the hiring of Al Saunders (thats right, Gibbs was REPLACED), whose system has fallen victim to Brunell's inability to strech the field and open up those screens that everyone complains about. If we had anything resembling a downfield threat, the underneath plays and running game would open up, and you would see this offense start to roll. Santana especially is great making plays after the catch on underneath routes and screens. ARE would greatly benefit here too. Since we have playmaking recievers and a great offensive mind at coordinator, the blame falls on Brunell and the line. Because teams know we have such a hard going deep, they just blitz and take away the underneath routes. There is rarely more than one safety deep, and the deep routes are often in man-to-man coverage. This should be easily recognized throughout the game and with halftime adjustments. The problem is, we have nothing to adjust to. The only answer here is a QB change. We have seen what Brunell's limitations, which I admit are partially due to protection, have done to this offense. He makes us completely one dimensional. Whether it be Campbell or Collins, I don't care. We just need to give teams something else to gameplan for. This offense has become so predictable it's pathetic. I'm sure i'm not the only one who can sit at home and call out exactly whats coming. I'm right about 70% of the time, so imagine what professional defensive coordinators are getting. I'm 19 with no coaching experince, and I'm calling the skins out on 3 out of 4 plays. For everyone who will immediately reply calling out the O-line: I can probably count on two hands the number of great throws Brunell has made with protection. And also, he causes his protection to break down alot of the time by dropping back WAY too far. He has no pocket presence and is afraid to stand in there and, god forbid, take a hit while delivering the football. Not to mention our blocking schemes are just stupid most of the time. We'll strand TE's against DE's and not help with the edge rushers. Last year we ran alot of max protect (8 men blocking) to solve this problem. This falls on Bugel, not the players. For everyone who will immediatley reply calling out the defense: They have had flashes of great play. Overall, I think they have played decently enough to win games, but have given up WAY too many big plays that have killed us. The Eagles game was a perfect example. Last week we were already down 17-3 before half but had held McNabb to like 4-16 for 132 yards and the 2 TD. With the exception of the big plays, we were OWNING him. The Eagles started twice in our territory near the end of the half and they were shut down. That kind of play is what is supposed to fire up an offense. They were unable to produce and we went in the half still down 14. An offense that has put up 3 points on the road against your division rivals will win you NO games, regardless of how the defense does. For any Brunell supporters left: Last week's performance destroyed and credible defense of him. For Joe Gibbs: Brunell goes, Bugel goes, and instill some discipline in your defense. The quarterback needs to change and you need to get someone in there that will get this offensive line playing Redskins football, or atleast get them protecting well enough to let Saunders' system succeed. If this defense stops giving up the big plays, they will look alot better and get us back in games. Those three decsions are on YOU Joe Gibbs. I refuse to believe that you will sit and watch the franchise that you made prestegious fall into mediocrity or worse. I am calling you out Joe. Give your fans and your players something to believe in. I can't believe some of these people, do you know what our alternatives! Let's get this straight, after Marty ans Spurrier NO ONE WANTED THIS JOB!!!! The Team was a disaster, we were limited to Ray Rhodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballGuy2677 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Thats right...you just owned one of the most well-known, Hall Of Fame, Offensive Genius coaches who by the way won 3 super bowls and might win 4 who could give a bill to congress in D.C to build a statue of himself in front of the White House and the bill would be passed. Thats right you owned him lol. :laugh: :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Skins72 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 "'83 Superbowl: Riggins - 38 carries for 166 yards. Harmon - 9 carries for 40 yards Other - 5 carries for 70 yards Total: 52 Carries, 276 yards. Theismann had 23 pass attempts. '87 Superbowl: Smith - 22 carries for 202 yards. Bryant - 8 carries for 38 yards. Rogers - 5 carries for 17 yards. Other - 5 carries 25 yards. Total: 40 carries, 282 yards. Williams had 29 pass attempts. Most of the hogs were gone by '92, but they still ran more than they passed. Got a reply for that? I'm obviously the idiot so you must have one." Wow, in 19 years you learned to cherry pick stats from 2 games to support a poorly thought out theory on a HOF coach that you arrogantly claim to own :doh: You don't know ***** about ***** kid, gtfo, and learn to respect your betters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyf316 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Wrong....can you say LT and the D-line of the Eagles with Reggie White. Agreed. LT was the reason that Gibbs redefined the O-line scheme in the singleback set and put a TE on him to block. Some average coach wouldn't have been able to design gameplans to neutralize him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian_99 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Its all about blame, the owners need to shake things up to save them from a failed investment from the "git-go" and that is over M. Saunders and his 700 page play book. If Mr Gibbs were to step back into the actual coaching and removed M. Saunders from the management of the offense, the Redskins stats would be fantastic right now. Review Mondays Washington Post for more details concering the changes that have happened within the team. What good is a playbook and Millions of Dollars if it is costing you the "W"? Is it Brunell's fault? No- it is management not taking repsonsibility and really looking at their mistakes. The players bust their tail, including Mark Brunell, he knows what is on the line and every play called is made by the man upstairs- calling the shot, not the QB. So instead of doing the right thing, make a scape goat and blame it on the QB, even though he isn't the one calling the plays? How truly shaming by the management- they need to take responsibility for their choices made prior to this season by brining in AL Saunders- that is where the fault lays. The R-Skins when directly "Coached" by Joe Gibbs made it to the play-offs last year- the only difference MAJOR between this year and last (besides the L's) is Al Saunders- the million dollar mistake. Terminate his contract, let Joe get back into doing what he is supposed to do- "COACH" and let the Redskins win- again. Instead of idiotic plays that don't work, taking motivated players and switching their positions which they were very familiar with, to non-effective positions which limit their potentials aka- Chris Cooley- and focusing on the power houses of the team- which we all know well. It isn't about the QB, its about blame- and sure that is the business but the reality of it is- getting rid of Al Saunders and that costly mistake. Sure Brunell, messed up- this past game- but only one interception in the past six games and they bench him? This is how management acts responsible- "blame the troops when they are in command"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Good Lord christian 99. How many times do you think this has to be posted? Geeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Good Lord christian 99.How many times do you think this has to be posted? Geeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Blondie Same post 12 times. There's not going be a 13th. Re: Carlos Rogers and Greg Williams Re: Brunell's Interview Re: Beware the curse of the answered prayer Re: *gibbs Role?* Re: I just owned myself. Go ahead, laugh at me. Re: Forced to BENCH Mark Brunell Re: At What Point Do You Blame Coaching? Re: Brunell sounds like he will start in 07 Re: Addressing the "It's Not all Brunell" rationale... Re: *gibbs Role?* Re: Forced to BENCH Mark Brunell Re: Get Off Brunell's Back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 :laugh: He has 14 posts. And 12 are the exact same thing. Guess that keeps a person from suffering from carpel tunnel!!! Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Same post 12 times. There's not going be a 13th. That's nothing! Last night someone posted the exact same line 23 times in 23 different threads. :laugh: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3203651&postcount=10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins Seventy Chip Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 "Go ahead. Laugh at me." I am laughing at your ignorance. You are an idiot. Joe Gibbs' teams were not the most talented. They won because of his leadership, management, hard-work, and play-calling. They over achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 That's nothing!Last night someone posted the exact same line 23 times in 23 different threads. :laugh: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3203651&postcount=10 And where is he now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 And where is he now? (I can't pass this one up.) You mean where's Waldo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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