turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Not trying to second guess JG, but even if we manage to find a punter to kickoff too, what happens to the kickoffs if the punter is hurt? We're not having an easy time finding a punter/kickoff specialist now. Is it going to be easier in the middle of the season? We need a kicker to kick, and a punter to punt. The 2nd or 3rd QB should be the holder anyway. That way you keep the return teams rush honest, and raises the possibility of a trick play. What is the argument against that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrimmage Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I had the same thought when I heard that the Falcons are going to have their punter kick field goals and kickoff. What happens if that guy goes down? Given how every other punter and kicker in the NFL goes down every other year with a bum groin or hamstring, how can this guy last a whole season? Maybe Randel El can punt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Not trying to second guess JG, but even if we manage to find a punter to kickoff too, what happens to the kickoffs if the punter is hurt? We're not having an easy time finding a punter/kickoff specialist now. Is it going to be easier in the middle of the season? We need a kicker to kick, and a punter to punt. The 2nd or 3rd QB should be the holder anyway. That way you keep the return teams rush honest, and raises the possibility of a trick play. What is the argument against that? Good point, but remember in Joe's first tenure Jeff Hayes handled kickoffs and punting also. Plus I think they're afraid of injuring John Hall's leg again on the kickoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsrdatruth Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 well wut happens if our kicker gets hurt?? I'm, pretty sure if an injury were to occur to Frost/or whoever our punter/kickoffer JG and danny smith would have no choice to put John Hall in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truant Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I disagree. I think the kicker is more valuable than the punter, therefore the punter should handle other duties and Hall can focus on scoring points. Either way you're not happy with your kicker or punter getting hurt, period. But with Hall's injury history you'd have to say he's more fragile. I think it's a good move to have the punter kickoff, we should have done that last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 well wut happens if our kicker gets hurt??I'm, pretty sure if an injury were to occur to Frost/or whoever our punter/kickoffer JG and danny smith would have no choice to put John Hall in there My sentiments exactly. Is a punter more or less valuable than a kicker? More often than not, it's a kicker that wins games, not a punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNoles21 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 well wut happens if our kicker gets hurt??I'm, pretty sure if an injury were to occur to Frost/or whoever our punter/kickoffer JG and danny smith would have no choice to put John Hall in there thats the same question i was gonna ask. To me its pretty obvious that the best leg should be kicking off no matter if hes punter, kicker or cornerback. Its the same as any other position, you put the best possible player on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trez Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I'm just not sure why the most profitable NFL franchise can't afford a decent punter or kicker. How many games are won by field position and field goals? I'd venture to say that quite a few are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwpanic Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 what would we do if the punter/kicker got hurt? we would always have amazing field position b/c everytime hall kicked it would be a on-side kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I'm just not sure why the most profitable NFL franchise can't afford a decent punter or kicker. How many games are won by field position and field goals? I'd venture to say that quite a few are. Do you honestly think it has anything to do with price? There's a salary cap, and we can only manipulate it so much (and this team has done a heck of a job with that). The bigger issue is FINDING a good punter, not paying for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 well wut happens if our kicker gets hurt??I'm, pretty sure if an injury were to occur to Frost/or whoever our punter/kickoffer JG and danny smith would have no choice to put John Hall in there Yes, and we all know how Hall kicks off. My point is, you can find a replacement kicker who can kickoff well or a replacement punter a lot easier than a punter who can kickoff well. We can't seem to find one now, and during season we will only have 6 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterfan Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Joe Theisman could play special teams. Why can't Jaspn Campbell punt. He has long legs and weight more than John Hall or Frost. Punting is not that hard but you have to have a pretty good leg. They could try someone else and save a roster spot, but either way you need 2 kickers because if you don;'t then you are doomed if your 1 kicker gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Joe Theisman could play special teams. Why can't Jaspn Campbell punt. He has long legs and weight more than John Hall or Frost. Punting is not that hard but you have to have a pretty good leg. They could try someone else and save a roster spot, but either way you need 2 kickers because if you don;'t then you are doomed if your 1 kicker gets hurt. Wait a minute. I've seen Theisman punt. Not a pretty sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Well, let's put it this way: You have a kicker who has been pretty money when he kicks, but he doesn't have the leg for kickoffs (or in our case, he gets hurt when he kicks off). If you think this is a problem, you may be hard pressed to find another kicker who is just as good, and kick it long. The guy may not be out there. So, there is the option of carrying two kickers (as the Giants have done in the past), but that could be a waste of a roster spot that you could use on a valuable backup, or one less active slot. There is also having your punter do kickoffs. It doesn't happen all that often, but Gibbs has used punters as kickoff men and long FG kickers before. I think the question of "what if he gets hurt" really applies normally if a kicker gets hurt: you need to find a replacement. It doesn't mean that a guy who does multiple jobs needs to be replaced by multiple people, especially if the kicker can do kickoffs in the short term. Really, tho, I think the point is moot, because I don't think he is looking for a punter to kick off (or if he is, it would be a bonus). In preseason, it is the time to experiment to see what your guys can do, so he looked to see if Frost could kick off, so that some of the injury risk to Hall could be minimized. I don't think if we change punters, that kicking off will be part of the new guy's responsibilities. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Punters shouldnt kick off... why? Concern over injury?? A punter has just as much chance of getting injured as a kicker on a kickoff(they kind of both do the same thing), so I fail to see what this has to do with ANYTHING but being paranoid. So lets see, our options are, put Frost in the way of danger and chance that someone else will have to kick 30 yard punts, or put Hall in the way of danger and chance not being able to hit a game winning field goal. Considering also that all of Halls injury problems have been related to kickoffs, and Frost is a young guy without injury problems at all, seems to me the smart option is to have our punter kick off, and our kicker(who is deadly when he is healthy) just worry about field goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Wait, wait... Whoever is the BEST AT KICKING OFF should kick-off. Field position is one of the most underrated aspects of the game, and our kickoffs have put the team in a bad situation for the past 2 seasons. Whoever can get the ball deepest should kickoff. In fact, I'd rather have a punter who averages 36.0 net and get can the ball to the goal line than a punter with a 39.0 net who can't get it past the 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Punters shouldnt kick off... why? Concern over injury??A punter has just as much chance of getting injured as a kicker on a kickoff(they kind of both do the same thing), so I fail to see what this has to do with ANYTHING but being paranoid. So lets see, our options are, put Frost in the way of danger and chance that someone else will have to kick 30 yard punts, or put Hall in the way of danger and chance not being able to hit a game winning field goal. Considering also that all of Halls injury problems have been related to kickoffs, and Frost is a young guy without injury problems at all, seems to me the smart option is to have our punter kick off, and our kicker(who is deadly when he is healthy) just worry about field goals. Are you talking about Hall here? He is supposedly back at 100%. He has made one short kick, missed two short kicks and had one blocked. Not exactly deadly. Preseason game planning or lack thereof does not apply to kickers or punters at all. My point is most FG kickers from peewee league on up do the kickoffs too. Punters generally do not kickoff. Hall does not have the leg strength or health to kick a touchback. Every Redskin fan knows that. It's hard enough to find a good punter. Replacing him during the season with another good punter who can kick touchbacks is going to be extremely difficult to do in one week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allskinz Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 WWJD? (What Would Joe Do?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 veteran punters like Gowin and Landeta don't kick off so this closes one avenue for resolving the question of how to ease Mr. Frost out in the end the Redskins may have to sign the best punter available and then hope that Hall's rehabilitation allows him to be effective for 16 games handling all the kickoff duties. I agree that on the punting side of the equation, the team should have found legitimate competition to come to camp with to challenge Frost. Lonie was an empty uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korserra Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 We're not having an easy time finding a punter/kickoff specialist now. Is it going to be easier in the middle of the season? In the relatively unlikely event this happens we always have the option of signing two players in midseason to punt and kickoff. Or we sign a punter and let Hall kickoff for a few games. I think the staff feels that Hall's leg won't last if he has to kickoff for 20 games. That doesn't mean he can't do it at all. You want the best holder available. Frost seems to be a good holder. It's one reason the staff is trying to be patient with him. Remember that the designated third QB cannot be the holder. That really complicates the back QB-holder idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 In the relatively unlikely event this happens we always have the option of signing two players in midseason to punt and kickoff. Or we sign a punter and let Hall kickoff for a few games.I think the staff feels that Hall's leg won't last if he has to kickoff for 20 games. That doesn't mean he can't do it at all. You want the best holder available. Frost seems to be a good holder. It's one reason the staff is trying to be patient with him. Remember that the designated third QB cannot be the holder. That really complicates the back QB-holder idea. If I recall correctly, Theisman used to hold for kicks before he started. He returned punts too. Maybe Campbell can do that too to free up some roster spots for all the kickers we're going to need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hall does not have the leg strength or health to kick a touchback. Touchbacks are not nearly as common as they used to be, since the NFL moved kickoffs back to the 30. Only three kickers in the league averaged a touchback a game. Only 10 managed to have over 10 touchbacks. So, let's not use that as a criteria. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Punters are used to fielding snaps with their hands and that's why they are often used as holders. Sure, QB's are still used in that capacity but not quite as often as they used to be. Part of the reason may be that coaches don't want a backup QB to get run into and possibly injured. Punters are generally easier to replace if they get hurt. I don't know that Collins or Campbell even have any experience holding for kicks although I suppose they could learn. As a positive, it would force the defenses to respect the possibility of a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Yes, and we all know how Hall kicks off. My point is, you can find a replacement kicker who can kickoff well or a replacement punter a lot easier than a punter who can kickoff well. We can't seem to find one now, and during season we will only have 6 days. Actually, I think we will have an easier time once cutdowns happen, since there are teams carrying multiple kickers. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Touchbacks are not nearly as common as they used to be, since the NFL moved kickoffs back to the 30. Only three kickers in the league averaged a touchback a game. Only 10 managed to have over 10 touchbacks. So, let's not use that as a criteria.Jason Agreed. But you still like to see the kickoff go beyond the 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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