Goaldeje Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well you asked where the skins have wasted a pick. You traded him away for a 6th round pick. I think that is a waste. Ramsey was given the opportunity to start, and couldn't get it done. Draft picks not panning out the way you hoped is not a waste. That happens to every team. Are there players we could have drafted instead of Ramsey? Certainly, but THA said we threw picks away. I am still waiting for an example of where a draft pick was used in one situation or another that was a complete throw away. We use draft picks unconventionally, certainly, but to say we throw them away is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 And what exactly has Campbell done to deserve to be included in that company? At this point, Romo sits to pee looks to be every bit the prospect that Campbell does. We'll let you know once he gets to his 4th season. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Ramsey was given the opportunity to start, and couldn't get it done. Draft picks not panning out the way you hoped is not a waste. That happens to every team. Are there players we could have drafted instead of Ramsey? Certainly, but THA said we threw picks away. I am still waiting for an example of where a draft pick was used in one situation or another that was a complete throw away. We use draft picks unconventionally, certainly, but to say we throw them away is asinine. WEll by your definition no draft pick is ever a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switchgear Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I'll concede that the Redskins could have done a better job with some of their trades and draft picks, specifically: Ramsey in the first round Taking Manuel White instead of Chris Canty And we have given up picks on players that have yet to prove themselves, specifically Rocky McIntosh and Jason Campbell. But feel free to point that out to your hearts content, the fact is we swept your team last year and made the playoffs, so we must have done something right. I'll take those results, you guys can have the offseason wins if you want them so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The difference between the Redskins and Cowboys The Redskins trade a 3rd round pick for a RB who can contribute immediatley and has done something in the NFl The Cowboys trade 3rd round picks for baseball players :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 WEll by your definition no draft pick is ever a waste. OK, let's look at both team's drafts over the past 5 years, not counting 2006, casue we just don't know ANYTHING yet. Also, nothing past the 4th round, which is widely considered a crapshoot anyway. If you go back and look and find someone as an exception feel free to post. Cowboys (from http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/DAL 2001 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 53 Quincy Carter QB Georgia - Waste 2 56 Tony Dixon SS Alabama - Waste 3 93 Willie Blade DT Mississippi State - Waste 4 122 Markus Steele OLB Southern California - Waste 2002 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 8 Roy Williams SS Oklahoma - excellent pick 2 37 Andre Gurode C Colorado - mediocre pick, depth player 2 63 Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh - waste, traded for Q. Morgan, not on team anymore 3 75 Derek Ross CB Ohio State - waste 4 129 Jamar Martin FB Ohio State - waste 2003 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 5 Terence Newman CB Kansas State - excellent pick 2 38 Al Johnson C Wisconsin - decent, marginal starter 3 69 Jason Witten TE Tennessee - excellent pick 4 103 Bradie James ILB Louisiana State - decent pick, starter 2004 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 43 Julius Jones RB Notre Dame - ?, injured too much, but has flashes of being very solid 2 52 Jacob Rogers T Southern California - waste 3 83 Stephen Peterman G Louisiana State - mediocre pick, depth on O-line 4 121 Bruce Thornton CB Georgia - waste 7 216 Patrick Crayton WR N.W. Oklahoma - I figured you would whine if I kept him off - decent pick, injured often, could turn out to be very good if he can stay on the field 1 11 DeMarcus Ware OLB Troy - Excellent pick 1 20 Marcus Spears DE Louisiana State - Good, needs to develop more 2 42 Kevin Burnett OLB Tennessee - Good 4 109 Marion Barber RB Minnesota - Very Good 4 132 Chris Canty DE Virginia - Very Very Good 2005 is iffy, as we don't know how everyone will turn out, but it does make you look a little better. But overall, either way, not exactly a slew of success, hmmm? Now for the Skins: 1 15 Rod Gardner WR Clemson - waste 2 45 Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State - decent pick, prob a little high for a good nickel corner 4 109 Sage Rosenfels QB Iowa State - waste 2002 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane - waste 2 56 Ladell Betts RB Iowa - very good pick 3 79 Rashad Bauman CB Oregon - waste 3 87 Cliff Russell WR Utah - waste 5 159 Andre Lott FS Tennessee - started couple games, decent 5 160 Robert Royal TE Louisiana State - starter in the league, good pick 7 257 Rock Cartwright RB Kansas State - excellent pick (I gave you Crayton, you can give me Rock and Royal) 2003 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 44 Taylor Jacobs WR Florida - complete and utter waste 3 81 Derrick Dockery G Texas - starter, very good pick 2004 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 5 Sean Taylor FS Miami - Excellent pick 3 81 Chris Cooley FB Utah State - Excellent pick 5 151 Mark Wilson T California - waste 6 180 Jim Molinaro T Notre Dame - O-line depth, good pick 2005 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 9 Carlos Rogers CB Auburn - Excellent pick 1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn - ? looks good in preseason, but can't judge for sure 4 120 Manuel White RB UCLA - waste, as prob won't make team this year 5 154 Robert McCune LB Louisville - decent pick, ST contributor Yeah, Dallas is far and ahead of the Skins here. Definitely. Now, let's go back and add in the players we got through trades for the missing draft picks. I'm doing this from memory, so if anyone wants to help correct, please feel free to. In 2003, we gave up our 1st rounder for Coles, who played VERY well for us, and we even subsequently turned him into Moss. I would say that's an OUTSTANDING use of a draft pick. Also in 2003, we gave up our 5th (?) for Morton, not a good decision, but as discussed above, not exactly a deal breaker as anything below the 4th is a crapshoot. Bowen was in there somewhere as well if memory serves, and he started and played well for us, so I would consider that a decent draft pick use. The Brunell trade worked out fine, and the Campbell trade is too early to tell. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few here and there. Again, I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me. The point is simply that if the Skins "throw away" or "waste" draft picks, then so do teh 'Boys. Glass houses, friend, glass houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 OK, let's look at both team's drafts over the past 5 years, not counting 2006, casue we just don't know ANYTHING yet. Also, nothing past the 4th round, which is widely considered a crapshoot anyway. If you go back and look and find someone as an exception feel free to post.Cowboys (from http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/DAL 2001 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 53 Quincy Carter QB Georgia - Waste 2 56 Tony Dixon SS Alabama - Waste 3 93 Willie Blade DT Mississippi State - Waste 4 122 Markus Steele OLB Southern California - Waste 2002 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 8 Roy Williams SS Oklahoma - excellent pick 2 37 Andre Gurode C Colorado - mediocre pick, depth player 2 63 Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh - waste, traded for Q. Morgan, not on team anymore 3 75 Derek Ross CB Ohio State - waste 4 129 Jamar Martin FB Ohio State - waste 2003 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 5 Terence Newman CB Kansas State - excellent pick 2 38 Al Johnson C Wisconsin - decent, marginal starter 3 69 Jason Witten TE Tennessee - excellent pick 4 103 Bradie James ILB Louisiana State - decent pick, starter 2004 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 43 Julius Jones RB Notre Dame - ?, injured too much, but has flashes of being very solid 2 52 Jacob Rogers T Southern California - waste 3 83 Stephen Peterman G Louisiana State - mediocre pick, depth on O-line 4 121 Bruce Thornton CB Georgia - waste 7 216 Patrick Crayton WR N.W. Oklahoma - I figured you would whine if I kept him off - decent pick, injured often, could turn out to be very good if he can stay on the field 1 11 DeMarcus Ware OLB Troy - Excellent pick 1 20 Marcus Spears DE Louisiana State - Good, needs to develop more 2 42 Kevin Burnett OLB Tennessee - Good 4 109 Marion Barber RB Minnesota - Very Good 4 132 Chris Canty DE Virginia - Very Very Good 2005 is iffy, as we don't know how everyone will turn out, but it does make you look a little better. But overall, either way, not exactly a slew of success, hmmm? Now for the Skins: 1 15 Rod Gardner WR Clemson - waste 2 45 Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State - decent pick, prob a little high for a good nickel corner 4 109 Sage Rosenfels QB Iowa State - waste 2002 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane - waste 2 56 Ladell Betts RB Iowa - very good pick 3 79 Rashad Bauman CB Oregon - waste 3 87 Cliff Russell WR Utah - waste 5 159 Andre Lott FS Tennessee - started couple games, decent 5 160 Robert Royal TE Louisiana State - starter in the league, good pick 7 257 Rock Cartwright RB Kansas State - excellent pick (I gave you Crayton, you can give me Rock and Royal) 2003 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 2 44 Taylor Jacobs WR Florida - complete and utter waste 3 81 Derrick Dockery G Texas - starter, very good pick 2004 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 5 Sean Taylor FS Miami - Excellent pick 3 81 Chris Cooley FB Utah State - Excellent pick 5 151 Mark Wilson T California - waste 6 180 Jim Molinaro T Notre Dame - O-line depth, good pick 2005 Rd Sel# Player Pos. School 1 9 Carlos Rogers CB Auburn - Excellent pick 1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn - ? looks good in preseason, but can't judge for sure 4 120 Manuel White RB UCLA - waste, as prob won't make team this year 5 154 Robert McCune LB Louisville - decent pick, ST contributor Yeah, Dallas is far and ahead of the Skins here. Definitely. Now, let's go back and add in the players we got through trades for the missing draft picks. I'm doing this from memory, so if anyone wants to help correct, please feel free to. In 2003, we gave up our 1st rounder for Coles, who played VERY well for us, and we even subsequently turned him into Moss. I would say that's an OUTSTANDING use of a draft pick. Also in 2003, we gave up our 5th (?) for Morton, not a good decision, but as discussed above, not exactly a deal breaker as anything below the 4th is a crapshoot. Bowen was in there somewhere as well if memory serves, and he started and played well for us, so I would consider that a decent draft pick use. The Brunell trade worked out fine, and the Campbell trade is too early to tell. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few here and there. Again, I'm sure someone will jump in and correct me. The point is simply that if the Skins "throw away" or "waste" draft picks, then so do teh 'Boys. Glass houses, friend, glass houses. Good breakdown, I agree with most of it. One thing to note though is look at the difference from when BP got there and the quality of our draft pics. Man last year was a good draft for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Good breakdown, I agree with most of it. One thing to note though is look at the difference from when BP got there and the quality of our draft pics. Man last year was a good draft for us! First off, I still think it's too early to judge 2005 very much. You really can't off one year. Second, the same can be said about us when Gibbs came back in '04. Except that our '04 draft was fairly weak, but then again your '03 and '04 drafts were as well. Which is why I go back again to not judging the '05ers yet. And don't quote hugh blocks of text. The mods'll getcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 More like failed experiment. He's clearly been beat out by much better QB prospect. Hopefully we can pull off a trade? That's a pretty rosy take, don't you think? It's a pretty big price to pay for an "experiment". An experiment is a guy you take on the second day of the draft and hope to mold into a starter. Maybe once in a decade you get someone like Tom Brady from that sort of thing. But they paid Henson 1st round money. While we don't have the clean-cut draft position to refer to the way we do with Ryan Leaf or Heath Shuler, the fact is he's a very big bust for the Cowboys. And BTW, I agree that if Romo sits to pee is as he appears and as the Cowboys seem to think he is, Cowboys fans won't spend too much time mourning Henson. Life goes on for all teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Update on the Henson situation: Just listened to Parcells' press conference and Henson is not actually cut. Parcells stated, "Drew Henson will not be part of our 53 man roster." They are apparently trying to deal him. So they might not cut him for nothing. They may only get a 7th round pick for him, but it is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Update on the Henson situation:Just listened to Parcells' press conference and Henson is not actually cut. Parcells stated, "Drew Henson will not be part of our 53 man roster." They are apparently trying to deal him. So they might not cut him for nothing. They may only get a 7th round pick for him, but it is better than nothing. The pukes taking a page from the Eagle FO notebook. Attempt to steal draft picks from any team they can for a player that is not very good, will be cut in the future, but the FO says can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The pukes taking a page from the Eagle FO notebook. Attempt to steal draft picks from any team they can for a player that is not very good, will be cut in the future, but the FO says can play. Sorry, not sure how you know he isn't very good. He has barely played. Teams will give up something for a guy who is smart, has prototypical size and athletisism. For whatever reason, he never endeared himself to Parcells. I would not be surprised to see more than one team willing to give up something for a developmental qb. Eagles come to mind, but doubt the Cowboys would deal him within the division. Jerry Jones actually had a Freudian slip on MNF when he said, "I would not doubt for a minute that we will see Drew Henson starting for another team in a couple of years." Just not the right place for him, especially with what they have in Romo sits to pee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSkins Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 he should've stuck to baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan_Randall Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry, not sure how you know he isn't very good.He has barely played. Sorta answered your own question, didn't you? Teams will give up something for a guy who is smart, has prototypical size and athletisism. Try the Jets. Or the 9ers. They both seem to be suckers. Focus on the 9ers come to think of it. They actually wanted Taylor Jacobs. :laugh: They might give you something for Henson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Ramsey was given the opportunity to start, and couldn't get it done. Draft picks not panning out the way you hoped is not a waste. That happens to every team. This was exactly my rebuttal to birdlives who said we wasted a pick with Henson. All I ask for is consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 We'll let you know once he gets to his 4th season. :doh: "Legit 1st rounders" are supposed to be different. Star quality "1st round talent" (Carson Palmer, McNabb etc.) sits a year at best especially in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Show me where I have proclaimed Campbell as a savior, or anything other than a first round draft pick with potential. Show me wher I've proclaimed Romo sits to pee as a savior or anything other than an UDFA with potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The Cowboys trade 3rd round picks for BAD baseball players :laugh: I fixed your post. Minoir detail;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 That's a pretty rosy take, don't you think? It's a pretty big price to pay for an "experiment". An experiment is a guy you take on the second day of the draft and hope to mold into a starter. Maybe once in a decade you get someone like Tom Brady from that sort of thing. . I think there's more than only 1 type of experiment. Trading a 3rd for QB with "first round pedigree/potential" who's been out of football for a few years is taking a chance. It was an experiment that failed. I don't think I'm sugar coating this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaldeje Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 This was exactly my rebuttal to birdlives who said we wasted a pick with Henson. All I ask for is consistency. You didn't ask me. I don't think you wasted a pick with Henson, though the amount of hype he brought with him has to make it disappointing at the very least. Show me wher I've proclaimed Romo sits to pee as a savior or anything other than an UDFA with potential? I asked you first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 You didn't ask me. I don't think you wasted a pick with Henson, though the amount of hype he brought with him has to make it disappointing at the very least. I asked you first :no: :laugh: Can the season start already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1njskinsfan Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 It's up at the Ranch.At his press conference, Parcells said "Drew Henson will not be on our roster this year." He's now officially a huge bust in two sports. Wow. but he never has to work a day in his life again......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Henson was waived today (Thursday). There was no trade. If he clears waivers he will be a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 More like failed experiment. He's clearly been beat out by much better QB prospect. Hopefully we can pull off a trade? An experiment, kind of like this? Oh no wait, that worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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