I think Lebanon is okay with the invasion: am I crazy?

[Ignatius J.]

I think lebanon is granting tacit approval to the israeli invasion. I can think of no other explanation for the turn of events over the weekend. There are a few reasons I believe this.

1) The insistence of Israel and Everyone on Fox News that this is not an invasion. Clearly, Israel and the US both have something to gain by not calling it an invasion, but then there's:

2) The president or PM or whomever of lebanon has been out on western news programs saying that he will attack the israeli army with the Lebanese army if there is an invasion. The symmantic similarity is stunning. It's as if he got israel's talking points, OR did israel get his?

3) Who has the most to lose by this invasion? Lebanon is in a pretty tough place. If hezbollah pushes back and defeats israel, the lebanese government is done for. Also, in a long protracted war, the lebanese government is done for. So what do they want? Probably a massive israeli invasion that will take out hezbollah quickly and decisively, but there's a problem with that:

4) The people of lebanon can't stomach that kind of affront to thier sovreignty, especially not by the jews, therefore, they need to be told by thier leaders that this isn't an invasion. I think everyone can see through the symmantics game being played here, and the fact that most lebanese appear to be willing to go along with it has heartening implications for the global war on terror.

5.) As of now lebanon isn't attacking, despite the fact that there are israeli ground forces in lebanon occupying towns. Lebanon would be pretty justified to attack the israeli forces, but they have not yet. This is amazingly good news for us, and I really hope it continues.

I think we might be seeing something very good happening, but it is way too soon to be sure. I think the lebanese government is allowing israel to take out hezbollah, a power they wished they could have disarmed long ago. Israel might have the power to finnally do this. The fact that most muslims are not rushing to the aid of hezbollah is I think a stunning victory for america. It is hard to get someone to speak out against thier brother, but the silence in support of hezbollah is deafening. I only hope that the silence we are hearing at the top of these regimes is reflected even a little by the populations.

[twa]

I believe there are certain elements in lebanon that are receptive or at least understanding of israel's actions...Being OK with it is a bit much.

Hezbollah is a problem too big for them to tackle,but I would not expect any thank you's if I was Israel.

I fully expect the Lebanese military to resist the invasion, once it gets far enough

[Thiebear]

I think Lebanon could be o.k. with it if:

1. Israel destroys Hezbollah to the point Lebanon can take control of the country: All leaderships want the power.. not the minority.

2. There is aid given to rebuild everything upon completion, and theres always that.

[Guest 979guy]

I think Lebanon could be o.k. with it if:

1. Israel destroys Hezbollah to the point Lebanon can take control of the country: All leaderships want the power.. not the minority.

2. There is aid given to rebuild everything upon completion, and theres always that.

Interesting posts.

Quite a few voices in the Arab world vehemently condemned Hezbollah for starting this battle (they can't really say "go Israel!" if they want to keep breathing) and for holding Lebanon hostage only to fight Iran and Syria's battles.

It definitely is Israel declared resolution to the crisis: Lebanon must take control over ALL its land; There should be aid to rebuild everything to Lebanon's benefit (IF, and only if step 1 is implemented).

[Prosperity]

Lebanon has lost highways, powerplants, airports, telecommunications and has pretty much had its tourist industry destroyed. It has been set back 20 years. No I don't think Lebanon is ok with an escalation in the fighting. If Lebanon had a decent military it would defend itself, why would they send in their soldiers only to be killed by the Israelis?

If Lebanon is going to be rebuilt, Israel isn't going to pay for it. We will be.

[twa]

You could always ask some of them...the webs a beautiful thing

http://ibosblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/undersige-thanks-to-hezballah.html

http://ramziblahblah.blogspot.com/2006/07/spin-war.html

http://beirutnotes.blogspot.com/2006/07/what-comes-next_15.html

http://lebop.blogspot.com/2006/07/quiet-evening-but-borders-still-under.html

[The Sisko]

Unfortunately, I think you failed to take into account the group that wants the invasion the most. Nobody wants an Israeli invasion more than Hezbollah. They beat the Israelis the last time around and there's a good chance they'll do it again. Given this reality, the Israelis have little interest in repeating their Vietnam. Therefore, their strategy seems to be to weaken Hezbollah by attacking it directly and indirectly (by destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon) so as to force Western countries to come fight Hezbollah for them and guard their border. Of course this is seen by the world as a concession on the part of the Israelis.

[jbooma]

Lebanon has lost highways, powerplants, airports, telecommunications and has pretty much had its tourist industry destroyed. It has been set back 20 years. No I don't think Lebanon is ok with an escalation in the fighting. If Lebanon had a decent military it would defend itself, why would they send in their soldiers only to be killed by the Israelis?

If Lebanon is going to be rebuilt, Israel isn't going to pay for it. We will be.

There are some reports that Israel has let Lebanon know they will help with rebuilding what they destroy.

On MSNBC right now Israel is going to back the Lebanan army, so maybe there is truth to this.

[The Sisko]

There are some reports that Israel has let Lebanon know they will help with rebuilding what they destroy.

...which means we'll be paying for both the demolition AND the rebuilding.

[Larry]

There's been several things about this war that I haven't understood.

I don't understand what appears to be Israel's going to war over two kidnappings.

OTOH, I don't understand why they put up with the rockets as long as they did. Or why the rockets don't seem to be their main talking point right now.

I also don't understand why Israel hasn't bombed the Iranian factory where those rockets are made, and every ammo depot that's known to store them. (As far as I'm concerned, there's a lot more of a link between this war and Iran than there is between this war and Lebanon.)

And I don't understand why it hasn't escalated more. Heck, in the Old Days, Isreal would've occupied an entire country by now.

[twa]

Larry, I'll give my uneducated guess

1 The kidnapings were simply a tipping point,though the memories from the last ones by HA still burn bright I'm sure.

2 The rockets attacks and HA buildup were major concerns that have no simple solution, as Yusuf stated HA wants a fight and has been preparing for years for it. There had to be overwhelming public support for another go at Lebanon.

3 Striking in Iran would be a major effort for Israel and not worth the cost in lives or political capitol (at this time)

4 No one but Iran is foolish enough to provoke war(and they prefer to let others take the pain of retribution)

[nelms]

Lebanon has lost highways, powerplants, airports, telecommunications and has pretty much had its tourist industry destroyed. It has been set back 20 years. No I don't think Lebanon is ok with an escalation in the fighting. If Lebanon had a decent military it would defend itself, why would they send in their soldiers only to be killed by the Israelis?

If Lebanon is going to be rebuilt, Israel isn't going to pay for it. We will be.

boo-hoo. That's what happens when you harbor a terrorist group.

[PokerPacker]

boo-hoo. That's what happens when you harbor a terrorist group.

is something wrong nelms? you seem to have been making a lot of sense lately.

whoa, i just realized that we're only 3 apart in membership.

[dreamingwolf]

is something wrong nelms? you seem to have been making a lot of sense lately.

whoa, i just realized that we're only 3 apart in membership.

he changed his age again, I wonder if hes messing with you cause of that. his age is yours backwards.

[The Sisko]

boo-hoo. That's what happens when you harbor a terrorist group.

You realize you have just placed yourself in the same category as the Arabs that celebrated in the streets after 9-11 saying in effect "Boo-hoo, that's what happens when you support a terrorist state"?

There, now don't you feel proud of yourself?

[PokerPacker]

he changed his age again, I wonder if hes messing with you cause of that. his age is yours backwards.

did he used to be 90 something before?

[AbleDanger]

You could always ask some of them...the webs a beautiful thing

http://ibosblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/undersige-thanks-to-hezballah.html

http://ramziblahblah.blogspot.com/2006/07/spin-war.html

http://beirutnotes.blogspot.com/2006/07/what-comes-next_15.html

http://lebop.blogspot.com/2006/07/quiet-evening-but-borders-still-under.html

I think he's referring more to the opinion of the government, not some commoner dicking around on the internet.

[AbleDanger]

Unfortunately, I think you failed to take into account the group that wants the invasion the most. Nobody wants an Israeli invasion more than Hezbollah. They beat the Israelis the last time around and there's a good chance they'll do it again. Given this reality, the Israelis have little interest in repeating their Vietnam. Therefore, their strategy seems to be to weaken Hezbollah by attacking it directly and indirectly (by destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon) so as to force Western countries to come fight Hezbollah for them and guard their border. Of course this is seen by the world as a concession on the part of the Israelis.

I don't think Israel wants to destabilize Lebonon. I think their hope is to keep the Lebonese government in tact while weakening or eliminating Hezbollah (like you said). It's complicated and only the beginning of what's to come with Iran and Syria.

[zoony]

I really don't have a lot to ad to this discussion, unfortunately.

However, I would like to say that this is a very thought provoking thread by Ignatius... and I wanted to be sure to mention that.

I tend to agree with IJ. Interesting perspective... very interesting

[nelms]

he changed his age again, I wonder if hes messing with you cause of that. his age is yours backwards.

I didn't change it again. I "turned" 71 in May.

[nelms]

You realize you have just placed yourself in the same category as the Arabs that celebrated in the streets after 9-11 saying in effect "Boo-hoo, that's what happens when you support a terrorist state"?

There, now don't you feel proud of yourself?

No, I'm in the category that wanted to carpet bomb those Arabs celebrating in the streets.

[The Sisko]

Well, given that you have a stupid and poorly thought out comeback for something meant to convey a point, count me in the category of folks that classifies you as a dingus.

[CounterTrey]

boo-hoo. That's what happens when you harbor a terrorist group.

nels some kind of slef restraint must be shown by people on this board. Now long standing allies of Israel have even said that Israel is using excessive force. The general population of Lebenon does not have to be the target. Gee, I don't see the difference of what Israel is doing to what hezzbolah does which is killing innocent people.

I agree Israel is acting in self defense to this situation but bombing the whole country is not the right way to get back. Frankly these knee jerk reactions is what ends of making it harder in the long run to accomplish what you've set off to do. Articles are coming out now how our arrogrant way of behaving with the Iraqi public by certain regiments in the Army has increased the insurgency against us.

I see what ahppened in india a week ago and don't see them bombing Pak all over. So its not boo hoo, innocent lives are being lost, some restraint must be shown and I beleive enought International pressure will come out in the next few days to actually force Israel to slow down. I've even heard people in the US gov't saying they are confused at some of Israels targets in the current War.

[twenty-eight]

boo-hoo. That's what happens when you harbor a terrorist group.

You realize you have just placed yourself in the same category as the Arabs that celebrated in the streets after 9-11 saying in effect "Boo-hoo, that's what happens when you support a terrorist state"?

There, now don't you feel proud of yourself?

:applause::applause:Excellent point

Lebanon must be rebuilt again:( How much longer will this go on for?

[tizzod]

I still maintain that when someone continually spits in your face you eventually get to a point where you get sick and tired of it and want to take care of the douchebag that won't leave you alone.

Another big problem I see in this Mideast thing, and it is a very uneducated opinion, mind you, but it seems to me that no matter how much Israel acquieses to these people, they will still find something to ***** about. They leave Gaza, they leave Southern Lebanon, and nothing changes. I would be pretty pissed off too, if I was them. They give a little, and people take. And then they insist they should be allowed to take more. It's a bunch of crap. Either work it out, or it's survival of the fittest. If you can't hang, you go. At some point, all this garbage has to stop. And if the only thing these people understand is violence and death, well, then that's what they'll get. I'm tired of ****footing around with these wacko extremists. There is no way they will come to a table and negotiate. It's their way or the highway. So, fine. Off you go.