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SUNSTONE

Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

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haven't seen any floating around. if i don't see any soon, i'll make some from the fight once i download it.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6259&zoneid=2

i realize the HW division is bare right now, but Mir doesn't deserve a title shot after beating Hardonk & Lesnar. he was destroyed by Vera before those 2 fights.

in my opinion, the winner of Werdum/Vera deserves a shot before Mir

Randy should go back and fulfill his one fight left with the UFC against Nogueira, that way if he can beat Nog, he proves that he is truly the #1 HW contender in the world to fight Fedor AND he satisfies the UFC contract freeing him up to fight Fedor.

I think Randy/Nogueira would be a damn good fight.

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When you almost get your face caved in and win with a desperation kneebar against an MMA novice, you get a title shot.

That wasn't a desparation kneebar, he was looking for the submission the whole time, as I would have been too if I knew I was up against a BJJ noob, I just would have tried a little harder not to eat so many shots to the face. But I'm pretty sure he couldn't help it as there is no weight ceiling in the HW class and Lesnar was so much bigger and stronger.

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Randy should go back and fulfill his one fight left with the UFC against Nogueira, that way if he can beat Nog, he proves that he is truly the #1 HW contender in the world to fight Fedor AND he satisfies the UFC contract freeing him up to fight Fedor.

I think Randy/Nogueira would be a damn good fight.

Dead on. Big Nog vs. Captain America is still THE marquis matchup in the UFC HW division. Fedor will come along. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been stalling so he could cage train a lot before making the transition.

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That wasn't a desparation kneebar, he was looking for the submission the whole time, as I would have been too if I knew I was up against a BJJ noob, I just would have tried a little harder not to eat so many shots to the face. But I'm pretty sure he couldn't help it as there is no weight ceiling in the HW class and Lesnar was so much bigger and stronger.

You are right except that there is a ceiling for heavyweights. It is 265. Tylvia has had to cut it before. Antonio Silva cuts it. Lesnar has to be right around there.

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Dead on. Big Nog vs. Captain America is still THE marquis matchup in the UFC HW division. Fedor will come along. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been stalling so he could cage train a lot before making the transition.

I'm just wondering if the beef he's having with Dana White has already prevented this fight.

That wasn't a desparation kneebar, he was looking for the submission the whole time, as I would have been too if I knew I was up against a BJJ noob, I just would have tried a little harder not to eat so many shots to the face. But I'm pretty sure he couldn't help it as there is no weight ceiling in the HW class and Lesnar was so much bigger and stronger.

I didn't like Mazzagatti's stand up in that fight. Those shots to the back of the head were minimal and Mir was turning his head away from the strikes. It's not like Lesnar was going straight for the head. I think Lesnar could've finished Mir if it weren't for the early stand up.:2cents:

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You are right except that there is a ceiling for heavyweights. It is 265. Tylvia has had to cut it before. Antonio Silva cuts it. Lesnar has to be right around there.

Did not know that. Thanks. Just figured there was no ceiling because of the size difference between those two and a couple of other HW fights I've seen.

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That wasn't a desparation kneebar, he was looking for the submission the whole time, as I would have been too if I knew I was up against a BJJ noob, I just would have tried a little harder not to eat so many shots to the face. But I'm pretty sure he couldn't help it as there is no weight ceiling in the HW class and Lesnar was so much bigger and stronger.

Of course he was planning on looking for a submission, but that doesn't mean the kneebar wasn't desperation. It's desperation when you're losing 20 strikes to 0 against a wrestler that's on top of you and you're one good shot away from being put away. He wasn't thinking, "ha, I'm gonna lock something in and he doesn't even know it." He was thinking, "ouch, ouch, ouch...oh, lookie what I found!"

Like QBKiller said, Mazagatti pulled a stromboli when he stood them up for the back-of-the-head punch.

You think Mir wanted to be taken down again, like he instantly was? He caught that leg like a Jim Edmonds highlight catch.

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Did not know that. Thanks. Just figured there was no ceiling because of the size difference between those two and a couple of other HW fights I've seen.

PRIDE didn't have a ceiling, as far as I know, which is why they had the "David vs. Goliath" fights.

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I didn't like Mazzagatti's stand up in that fight. Those shots to the back of the head were minimal and Mir was turning his head away from the strikes. It's not like Lesnar was going straight for the head. I think Lesnar could've finished Mir if it weren't for the early stand up.:2cents:

I was re-watching that fight the other night and became annoyed, again, when Mazzagatti stood them up. It reminded me of Tito's fight in UFC 13 when he was ground and pound, but good stood up, too.

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I was re-watching that fight the other night and became annoyed, again, when Mazzagatti stood them up. It reminded me of Tito's fight in UFC 13 when he was ground and pound, but good stood up, too.

Have you seen this Mazzagatti screw-up?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5109657&postcount=3370

Click the link that SU posted and watch the gif. He stops the fight, then pauses like he changed his mind and then stops it again causing Joe Doerksen to get hit a couple extra times in the head. He should be on thin ice with the UFC for some of this.

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Of course he was planning on looking for a submission, but that doesn't mean the kneebar wasn't desperation. It's desperation when you're losing 20 strikes to 0 against a wrestler that's on top of you and you're one good shot away from being put away. He wasn't thinking, "ha, I'm gonna lock something in and he doesn't even know it." He was thinking, "ouch, ouch, ouch...oh, lookie what I found!"

Like QBKiller said, Mazagatti pulled a stromboli when he stood them up for the back-of-the-head punch.

You think Mir wanted to be taken down again, like he instantly was? He caught that leg like a Jim Edmonds highlight catch.

He saw the opening and he took it, that's what your supposed to do. Would it have been more valiant in your eyes if he just sat there and ate shots to the face until the ref stopped it? Desparation is using a cheap technique you would not normally use because you're getting your ass kicked. Desparation is punching the throat, kicking the groin, bending fingers/toes, NOT a kneebar. A kneebar is a legit BJJ submission.

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He saw the opening and he took it, that's what your supposed to do. Would it have been more valiant in your eyes if he just sat there and ate shots to the face until the ref stopped it? Desparation is using a cheap technique you would not normally use because you're getting your ass kicked. Desparation is punching the throat, kicking the groin, bending fingers/toes, NOT a kneebar. A kneebar is a legit BJJ submission.

the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. i don't see desparation equating to something illegal. a legal kneebar can still be desparate action by a fighter who was getting his face pounded.

mir's kneebar was desparate, but it was also smart and clean.

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the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. i don't see desparation equating to something illegal. a legal kneebar can still be desparate action by a fighter who was getting his face pounded.

mir's kneebar was desparate, but it was also smart and clean.

Hmmm...I can agree that Mir was in a desparate situation, he had to do something different other than continually eat shots to the face or risk ref stoppage, but I can't agree that the kneebar was desparate. That's like saying he knew he could win with a kneebar all along but didn't use it until he "had to". If this were the case why did he not go for the kneebar from the opening bell and save himself all of those full force shots to the face from a very large, very strong Lesnar?

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SU, and Double, I agree with mvisit.

Mir had been drilling that kneebar. He knew that wrestlers were open for it, and when the opportunity presented itself he executed perfectly.

Remember,

Luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

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Anyone wanna do a sig bet with me for the next UFC? I like Penn.

I'll do a separate one with someone else if you wanna take Goran Reljiic. I don't know anything about him but on paper he is taller and has a better W/L Record than his opponent, Wilson Gouveia. Gouveia is ATT and you all know how much I love ATT.

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I'll take Wanderlei for anyone who wants to bet on Jardine

I'm tempted but I just cannot make a call on this fight. I feel like there are 2 scenarios that could easily come to fruition:

1. Jardine wears him down with leg kicks and gets the late win.

2. Silva KTFOs Keith by a big punch early on.

Besides, I have a sig bet with Lando on the Penn-Sherk fight.

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I'm tempted but I just cannot make a call on this fight. I feel like there are 2 scenarios that could easily come to fruition:

1. Jardine wears him down with leg kicks and gets the late win.

2. Silva KTFOs Keith by a big punch early on.

Besides, I have a sig bet with Lando on the Penn-Sherk fight.

I agree but I am feeling #2 for some reason :)

Mainly because this is do or die for Wanderlei and I don't think his tank is empty. A loss to Jardine would be 4 straight and I just don't see it happening. The last three guys Wanderlei has lost to are 3 of the best MMA has to offer so no shame there, everyone goes through slumps and this is his chance to turn things around....if not, 185 is going to look mighty tempting to Wandy.

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Anyone wanna take me up on the Gouveia/Reljiic match? I won't bet with you guys on anything else as you're all picking who I think are the favorites.

ATT FOR LIFE

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I'm tempted but I just cannot make a call on this fight. I feel like there are 2 scenarios that could easily come to fruition:

1. Jardine wears him down with leg kicks and gets the late win.

2. Silva KTFOs Keith by a big punch early on.

Besides, I have a sig bet with Lando on the Penn-Sherk fight.

i want to take Jardine in that fight, but i can't forget how he did in the clinch against Houston in the clinch. Silva should win this, if he doesn't, he's goin to have to re-evaluate some things

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I'll do a separate one with someone else if you wanna take Goran Reljiic. I don't know anything about him but on paper he is taller and has a better W/L Record than his opponent, Wilson Gouveia....

You aren't the only one who doesn't know anything about Reljiic. Gouveia doesn't either:

mmamania.com

"I’m kind of going in blind for this fight. I just trained everything for this fight. For [Goran Reljik], there is no information at all. I just have to be 100% for everything. He’s supposed to be a very good jiu-jitsu guy. Every Croatian guy is supposed to be a very good striker. I’m not taking him as just being a jiu-jitsu fight….

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He saw the opening and he took it, that's what your supposed to do. Would it have been more valiant in your eyes if he just sat there and ate shots to the face until the ref stopped it? Desparation is using a cheap technique you would not normally use because you're getting your ass kicked. Desparation is punching the throat, kicking the groin, bending fingers/toes, NOT a kneebar. A kneebar is a legit BJJ submission.

Even in desperation, I would not resort to cheating. Cheating is cheating, desperation or not. As for Mir, no, losing would not have been valiant against Brock Lesnar. But the kneebar was a get-it-or-lose effort by Mir. Do you think he said under his breath, "that's right, punk" after the fight? Or something more like, "thank you Jesus Mary Joseph Holy Christ my savior".

I'm thinking more towards the second.

In any event, he earned his shot at Nog with that ownage of Lesnar.

By the way, you still roll with Din Thomas? Has he expressed any ill-will towards Dana for being cut?

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Hold up here guys-

I'm getting the impression that one or more of you are slamming Frank Mir for overcoming a pummeling by a 900 pound gorilla and winning a cage match. Is that what's going on?

During the time leading up to this fight, many people expected Lesnar to do exactly what he did, which was overwhelm Mir with his size and strength. Many people also expected Mir to do exactly what he did, which was weather the storm and get a tricky sub. It's certainly not Mir's fault that Mazzagatti stood them up when he saw punches to the back of the head and it certainly didn't make much difference because Lesnar took Mir right back down for the G&P. If any of you blame Mir for trying to move his head out of the way of those punches, I'd love to see you lay there and take them "like a brave man." There's such a thing as "dirty boxing" but nobody complains about that. Why complain about "dirty MMAing?"

Mir did weather the storm and he did get the tricky sub. Frank's experience beat Lesnars' power. Other than Mazzagatti's "flub," which is NOT necessarily an error because he did warn Lesnar once, what's the issue?

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