Mass 2ndgrade teacher reads 'gay marriage' book (diversity)

[TK]

Lets talk football man not

You seem to have lost your way. Allow me to help you.

you want the 2nd forum.

The Tailgate

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The Stadium

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[Tarhog]

Folks have a right to their opinion....whether it 'disturbs' fellow members or not.

Within reason....

[chomerics]

Anyone taking a position that they are right and others are wrong is taking a position of superiorty. Heck, Chom is the king of that. If you think homosexuality is wrong and immoral, of course you're taking a position of superiority. I see no reason to run from that position. Believe what you believe and be comfortable with it. That doesn't mean you have to harbor hate, or malice against those who live in that lifestyle because you disagree with it.

With that said, this was clearly agenda driven and parents should have been consulted. If you say otherwise, your not being intellectually honest to any extent. That gay marriage is legal in the state makes no difference. Homosexuality is not illegal anywhere that I'm aware of, so talking about it isn't predicated on it's legality. It is a known hot issue, and embroiling the students in controversy is not beneficial to their education. Simple tolerance of those opposed to that lifestyle could have prevented any problems.

It's no secret I don't agree with that lifestyle. Had this been planned reading at my daughters school, and had I been notified, I would not have pulled her from the class. Unfortunately, homosexuality is a part of our society and tolerance is the right way. I'd atleast like the opportunity to discuss it with them first. If it was sneaked into the agenda, I would be livid.l

Knowing your position on the issue, I would imagine that you would be upset at the teacher/school, and asking for a "heads up" is not an irrational position. I don't contend that thier actions did weren't politically motivated, but they just as well could have been because there are children of gay parents in the classroom. What I DO know is that gay marriage is legal in our state, and there are children that go to our schools with gay parents. People should be made aware of it during parent teacher conferences that this book is coming up, and it will be one of the books they read to the kids, but that is it. If you are a parent, then you will know before hand to discuss it with your child and that the topic is going to be brought up, but I do not think the teachers should be required to call home so the child can be taken out of class.

For example, if there was a family of skinheads who didn't believe the holocaust happened, should the school call the parents and tell them when they are teaching WWII so they can pull them out of school? What about evolution (please don't go off on that tangent), should they be allowed to excuse their child from the cirriculum? It is a question that must happen ALL the time with schools, and at some point, you have to draw the line and say this is what we do. It isn't up to the parents to decide but the school system, the parents can always home school or go private, at least that is the way I see it.

[Major Harris]

For example, if there was a family of skinheads who didn't believe the holocaust happened, should the school call the parents and tell them when they are teaching WWII so they can pull them out of school? What about evolution (please don't go off on that tangent), should they be allowed to excuse their child from the cirriculum? It is a question that must happen ALL the time with schools, and at some point, you have to draw the line and say this is what we do. It isn't up to the parents to decide but the school system, the parents can always home school or go private, at least that is the way I see it.

comparing history to something that is debateable is like apples and lawnmowers, imo.

[Winslowalrob]

Anyone taking a position that they are right and others are wrong is taking a position of superiorty. Heck, Chom is the king of that. If you think homosexuality is wrong and immoral, of course you're taking a position of superiority. I see no reason to run from that position. Believe what you believe and be comfortable with it. That doesn't mean you have to harbor hate, or malice against those who live in that lifestyle because you disagree with it.

With that said, this was clearly agenda driven and parents should have been consulted. If you say otherwise, your not being intellectually honest to any extent. That gay marriage is legal in the state makes no difference. Homosexuality is not illegal anywhere that I'm aware of, so talking about it isn't predicated on it's legality. It is a known hot issue, and embroiling the students in controversy is not beneficial to their education. Simple tolerance of those opposed to that lifestyle could have prevented any problems.

It's no secret I don't agree with that lifestyle. Had this been planned reading at my daughters school, and had I been notified, I would not have pulled her from the class. Unfortunately, homosexuality is a part of our society and tolerance is the right way. I'd atleast like the opportunity to discuss it with them first. If it was sneaked into the agenda, I would be livid.l

Good post.

[stevenaa]

For example, if there was a family of skinheads who didn't believe the holocaust happened, should the school call the parents and tell them when they are teaching WWII so they can pull them out of school? What about evolution (please don't go off on that tangent), should they be allowed to excuse their child from the cirriculum? It is a question that must happen ALL the time with schools, and at some point, you have to draw the line and say this is what we do. It isn't up to the parents to decide but the school system, the parents can always home school or go private, at least that is the way I see it.

I don't think you ever allow a line to be drawn. Education is a cooperative effort between the school system and parents. (If you have kids in school, you can especially relate to this) Communication is not difficult, and lack thereof should not be an excuse for these types of problems to occur. We live in a diverse society and if tolerance is going to be the name of the game, it has to flow in both directions.

[dfitzo53]

For example, if there was a family of skinheads who didn't believe the holocaust happened, should the school call the parents and tell them when they are teaching WWII so they can pull them out of school? What about evolution (please don't go off on that tangent), should they be allowed to excuse their child from the cirriculum? It is a question that must happen ALL the time with schools, and at some point, you have to draw the line and say this is what we do. It isn't up to the parents to decide but the school system, the parents can always home school or go private, at least that is the way I see it.

Chomerics, there's a difference between presenting history as it happened or science as it's currently understood and broaching one of the most sensitive social and political issues of the day. I know you're smart enough to tell the difference. When you make wild comparisons like that it does more to hurt our case than the opposition's.

[DoGood28]

This pisses me off. I would be furious if my child was subjected to this crap without my permission as I completely and utterly oppose homosexuality.

[skinfan133]

guys i leave the thread for less than 24 hours and i find a mess.... up until i left i felt this discussion was going civily, and honydont....:doh:

anyway to reiterate what i was saying before, i have since changed my opinion about the origin of homosexual behavior, i used to believe it was a mental illness, upon credible source evalutation i have since come to believe it is a sex-linked disorder, meaning a genetic disorder that is created by the adition of certaint X chromosomes that create more estrogen and less testosterone in a man, also upon further investigation in scientific journals i have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a specific gene, but a disorder that is created by circumstance not traits. such disorders of the creation or deletion of sex chromosomes (X, Y and various X mutations) exsist; down syndrome is one for example. homosexuality along this thought line is by far not as severe a disorder as down syndrome, but it raises questions such as:

-if down syndrome is a sex-linked disorder and homosexuality is, dont we have an obligation to corect both?

-what makes one disorder aceptable and one not?

-is it ethical to find some sort of 'cure' for any genetic disorder and does it aply to homosexuality?

no one can answer these questions for sure. but if i were to offer an opinion, genetic disorders are as they describe: disorders. genetic disorders should be corrected or eliminated from himan beings, passed or circumstantual. and if homosexuality is indeed a disorder, then that would imply that nature intends for creatures to be heterosexual (after all they need to reproduce), and homosexual 'disorder' would be robing men and women of relationships with the oposite sex denied to them by circumstance or passed traits (the first most likely). so if the are being denied this by their own genetic disorder, doesnt science need to offer homosexuals the chance to ask for a study done to se if it can be prevented? if they say no then fine, but dont you think work should be done to eliminate all disorders in future generations? would this insclude homosexuality? no one can say, but i would be interested in everyones take on this post.

[chomerics]

Chomerics, there's a difference between presenting history as it happened or science as it's currently understood and broaching one of the most sensitive social and political issues of the day. I know you're smart enough to tell the difference. When you make wild comparisons like that it does more to hurt our case than the opposition's.

That isn't the question I was getting at, but the part of what are parents allowed to tell the school their child can learn. The analogy fits if you look at it from the prospective of a parent not wanting his child to learn what the school is teaching. Just because the subject matter chosen was controversial.

Does a parent get to decide what his or her child is taught in schools, that is what I am alluding to. Ultimately, yes because the child does not go there, but directly no, because they get no say in the cirriculum or books the students read. That was my point.

[dfitzo53]

That isn't the question I was getting at, but the part of what are parents allowed to tell the school their child can learn. The analogy fits if you look at it from the prospective of a parent not wanting his child to learn what the school is teaching. Just because the subject matter chosen was controversial.

Does a parent get to decide what his or her child is taught in schools, that is what I am alluding to. Ultimately, yes because the child does not go there, but directly no, because they get no say in the cirriculum or books the students read. That was my point.

I still think they're two different situations. Parents in Fairfax County are allowed to opt their children out of sex ed, and some exercise that right. Parents don't get to choose what parts of history and science their kids learn.

[chomerics]

I don't think you ever allow a line to be drawn. Education is a cooperative effort between the school system and parents. (If you have kids in school, you can especially relate to this) Communication is not difficult, and lack thereof should not be an excuse for these types of problems to occur. We live in a diverse society and if tolerance is going to be the name of the game, it has to flow in both directions.

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all, but what say do the parents have in what the kids are exposed to at school? If the parents are told that this will be brought up at some point, thus giving the parents the ability to discuss it with their child before hand, is that enough? I think it is.

[chomerics]

I still think they're two different situations. Parents in Fairfax County are allowed to opt their children out of sex ed, and some exercise that right. Parents don't get to choose what parts of history and science their kids learn.

Really? Parents opt their children out of sex ed? I did not know that.

[dfitzo53]

Really? Parents opt their children out of sex ed? I did not know that.

The parents who choose to do so are in the minority, but some do.

Anyway, I agree with you that fair warning is all that should really be necessary.

[Major Harris]

Really? Parents opt their children out of sex ed? I did not know that.

yes, some do. most that take the time to actually respond to the correspondance from the school are the responsible type that teach it themselves.

[Stigmata]

Can you imagine if it became part of kids curriculum that they learn Christianity? The left would hemorrhage and be frothing at the mouth.

Some people feel just as strong against teaching (the Gay) life style as a leftists feels about teaching God. Teaching abstinence is out of the question, teaching goodness and proper moral behavior is some how outrageous, suddenly they would say there rights have been violated blah blah blah.

I would not want my child at 7 learning heather has 2 mommies and dad is mouthing ken his gay lover. Its only diversity and understanding and becoming enlightened when its the teachings of the left, its forcing your opinions down peoples throat when turns into opposition..

[Major Harris]

Can you imagine if it became part of kids curriculum that they learn Christianity? The left would hemorrhage and be frothing at the mouth.

Some people feel just as strong against teaching (the Gay) life style as a leftists feels about teaching God. Teaching abstinence is out of the question, teaching goodness and proper moral behavior is some how outrageous, suddenly they would say there rights have been violated blah blah blah.

I would not want my child at 7 learning heather has 2 mommies and dad is mouthing ken his gay lover. Its only diversity and understanding and becoming enlightened when its the teachings of the left, its forcing your opinions down peoples throat when turns into opposition..

only difference being the whole separation of church and state thingy.....but i do see what you're getting at.

[techboy]

Really? Parents opt their children out of sex ed? I did not know that.

Indeed. I can speak best to the 9th grade Family Life Education, taught in Biology, because that is what I taught last year.

There are ten units, on a variety of topics from plumbing to STDs to Birth (the birth video may well be the best form of abstinence education out there )to AIDS to human sexuality. Parents can opt their children out of all ten (almost always Muslim, or sometimes Hindu), or any individual unit (usually conservative Christians and the sexuality unit).

Students that opt out are given an alternative assignment in a seperate place.

It's a general practice to call parents that opt out to ensure that that's what they want (the form is in a packet we send home at the beginning of the year, and occasionally they just sign everything and send it back). Frequently, once the parents talk to the teacher, their concerns end up being alleviated and they allow their student to particpate, though not always.

My class had 28 students. One was opted out for the whole thing, and one was held out just for the human sexuality unit.

The interesting thing about the 9th grade FLE is that while we are very controlled in what we teach (we get a notebook, and if it's not in the notebook, we can't do it or say it), we can answer any question, whether it's in the notebook or not. They ask the questions anonymously on slips of paper, which everyone turns in, whether they have a question or not. Some of the questions are funny, some thoughtful, and some sad.

[chomerics]

Can you imagine if it became part of kids curriculum that they learn Christianity? The left would hemorrhage and be frothing at the mouth.

Some people feel just as strong against teaching (the Gay) life style as a leftists feels about teaching God. Teaching abstinence is out of the question, teaching goodness and proper moral behavior is some how outrageous, suddenly they would say there rights have been violated blah blah blah.

I would not want my child at 7 learning heather has 2 mommies and dad is mouthing ken his gay lover. Its only diversity and understanding and becoming enlightened when its the teachings of the left, its forcing your opinions down peoples throat when turns into opposition..

If it was about teaching homosexuality, I would agree, but this was not. If the book was about a a guy going to heaven I would not be upset at the school as others are. You are confusing teaching a lifestyle with making others aware that a lifestyle exists, two completely different things.

And yes, if schools taught religion, or just ONE religion, I would have a definate problem with it, just as if they taught homosexuality or even oral sex. Saying something exists in society and teaching tolerance is not the same thing as teaching the action. It would be the same thing if teachers taught kids it was OK to be religious, you would not have a problem with that would you?

[MissU28]

Indeed. I can speak best to the 9th grade Family Life Education, taught in Biology, because that is what I taught last year.

There are ten units, on a variety of topics from plumbing to STDs to Birth (the birth video may well be the best form of abstinence education out there )to AIDS to human sexuality. Parents can opt their children out of all ten (almost always Muslim, or sometimes Hindu), or any individual unit (usually conservative Christians and the sexuality unit).

Students that opt out are given an alternative assignment in a seperate place.

It's a general practice to call parents that opt out to ensure that that's what they want (the form is in a packet we send home at the beginning of the year, and occasionally they just sign everything and send it back). Frequently, once the parents talk to the teacher, their concerns end up being alleviated and they allow their student to particpate, though not always.

My class had 28 students. One was opted out for the whole thing, and one was held out just for the human sexuality unit.

The interesting thing about the 9th grade FLE is that while we are very controlled in what we teach (we get a notebook, and if it's not in the notebook, we can't do it or say it), we can answer any question, whether it's in the notebook or not. They ask the questions anonymously on slips of paper, which everyone turns in, whether they have a question or not. Some of the questions are funny, some thoughtful, and some sad.

Parents also have the opportunity to come to the school before they sign those packets for a "preview night" where all the materials and videos that will be used are out for the parents to see. Parents can opt children out for one lesson, all lessons, or even a part of a lesson. I taught a couple girls who left right before we were going to watch a video- and she went down to join others to work on another type of health project while the rest of the classes finished up.

[chomerics]

Indeed. I can speak best to the 9th grade Family Life Education, taught in Biology, because that is what I taught last year.

There are ten units, on a variety of topics from plumbing to STDs to Birth (the birth video may well be the best form of abstinence education out there )to AIDS to human sexuality. Parents can opt their children out of all ten (almost always Muslim, or sometimes Hindu), or any individual unit (usually conservative Christians and the sexuality unit).

Students that opt out are given an alternative assignment in a seperate place.

It's a general practice to call parents that opt out to ensure that that's what they want (the form is in a packet we send home at the beginning of the year, and occasionally they just sign everything and send it back). Frequently, once the parents talk to the teacher, their concerns end up being alleviated and they allow their student to particpate, though not always.

My class had 28 students. One was opted out for the whole thing, and one was held out just for the human sexuality unit.

The interesting thing about the 9th grade FLE is that while we are very controlled in what we teach (we get a notebook, and if it's not in the notebook, we can't do it or say it), we can answer any question, whether it's in the notebook or not. They ask the questions anonymously on slips of paper, which everyone turns in, whether they have a question or not. Some of the questions are funny, some thoughtful, and some sad.

Thanks for the enlightenment, I did not know that people opted their kids out of a class.

[chomerics]

Parents also have the opportunity to come to the school before they sign those packets for a "preview night" where all the materials and videos that will be used are out for the parents to see. Parents can opt children out for one lesson, all lessons, or even a part of a lesson. I taught a couple girls who left right before we were going to watch a video- and she went down to join others to work on another type of health project while the rest of the classes finished up.

If that is indeed the case, then the parents should be contacted if it is a planned lesson. If it is something spontaneous that comes up, and a discussion ensues, then they should not be held to blame though. If someone wants their child to grow up secluded from the fact that there are gay parents of children, then yes it is their perrogative. I do not think it is right that parents can opt their child out of lessons in the school, but if they are already allowed to, there is no reason to say they can not do it here, but somewhere else. I just know I would never opt my child out of the lesson, as I think it teaches a great deal about tolerance and empathy, two things our country sorely lacks right now.

[dfitzo53]

(the birth video may well be the best form of abstinence education out there )

You're not kidding either. If it's the same one they showed when I was in school, it still gives me nightmares.

[Stigmata]

If it was about teaching homosexuality, I would agree, but this was not. If the book was about a a guy going to heaven I would not be upset at the school as others are. You are confusing teaching a lifestyle with making others aware that a lifestyle exists, two completely different things.

And yes, if schools taught religion, or just ONE religion, I would have a definate problem with it, just as if they taught homosexuality or even oral sex. Saying something exists in society and teaching tolerance is not the same thing as teaching the action. It would be the same thing if teachers taught kids it was OK to be religious, you would not have a problem with that would you?

I teach my kids man/woman not man/man woman/woman. Lets confuse kids that's what we need, confuse there senses.

This is indoctrination plain and simple, if you teach its OK to be gay you are in essence teaching its OK for my kids to be gay also, is this what you want Chom?

All your reasoning means a hill of beans when your kid comes home and says i think I'm going to date some one of the opposite sex, why? because hey I'm taught its normal I'm taught its OK to be with the opposite sex, tolerance can be construed as normality, if they taught its a sickness or a genetic disorder i could maybe see it, kinda ranks up there with a defect, and that's what it is a defect, i don't want my kids to do by decision what these people claim are genetics, and if they claim its not genetics it just shows how even more twisted it is.. (defect). and if Gay people don't like it TO BAD they are defective.. political correctness my AS_, its what it is a Defect..

Its real simple, they are teaching its OK to be Gay, i don't care what spin you put on it Chom this is what it is. ITS not ok to be GAY, if you are fine, i will teach my Kids you are SICK and were born SICK confused ect but do not expect me to accept this crap as normal because its NOT period...

I'm not saying ill say Gay people are mean, evil, diseased, nothing like that just SICK they have confused nature plain and simple, going against nature, plain and simple.