Rumrunner6900 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I would love to see some statistics to back up statements on either side of the debate in here....:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I think its funny that the same people who argue that millions of dollars are spent "with out results" on the war on drugs, are the same people that are making the war on drugs a failure. If you don't want you tax dollars wasted, stop using drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 There are millions of drugs users, including cocaine users, who function within society without any difficulty.. Are there any that don't? If we are going to allow alcohol and cigarettes, both of which cause more trouble more so than any other drug, then it is completely illogical to continue criminalization of other drugs. It is the same argument that I use against firearm bans: There is not any evidence that a drug ban has been effective. Nor do I understand folks who support firearm ownership, but are against the decriminalization of drugs, or at least marijuana. They are very similar issues of freedom, i.e., "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Also, you can argue that they are also both Constitutional issues as well. Does alcohol cause more problems because of its nature? Or because it is probably used and abused at a migh higher level? The "or at least marijuana" comment does not seem to coincide with the rest of your post. It seems you advocate a complete legalization of all drugs...and all weapons. Why the qualifier? It comes down this issue for me: personal responsibility. I am an adult. If I decide to smoke marijuana, and I function within society, pay taxes, and do not cause a disturbance to my neighbor, then there is no reason for anyone to tell me how to live my existence. That's American, and that is the Western principles on which this nation was founded.. Assuming that maybe one or two people start using the now legal drugs and DO NOT function within society...what do we do with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Serious question here, drugs like weed, shrubs, coke, all that mess. Why do you feel they should be illegal? Honest opinion, what do you care? What are shrubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Alright, then what is the intuitive estimate on the cost of legalizing all drugs?And what is the intuitive estimate on the additional revenue that would be realized? Unless you don't want to be involved in a civilized debate or cite facts. 1 million people buy a dime bag = $10 million. 1 million people buy a dime bag with a one dollar tax and that's a million dollars you didn't have before. That can go to schools, roads, providing health to all americans, anything. And trust me when I say a lot more then 1 million people buy dime bags in this country in one day. You'd be shocked how many people in this county buy weed on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 What are shrubs? typo, meant to say shrooms. In a rush, going out today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Average user of alcohol: Average user of heroin: Read Killing Pablo, then say drugs should be legalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 1 million people buy a dime bag = $10 million. 1 million people buy a dime bag with a one dollar tax and that's a million dollars you didn't have before. That can go to schools, roads, providing health to all americans, anything. And trust me when I say a lot more then 1 million people buy dime bags in this country in one day. You'd be shocked how many people in this county buy weed on a daily basis. How about this, everytime you buy a bag of weed, send $5 to the government? Why do people point out the health care costs associated with alcohol and cigs yet completly ignore the bodily damage illegal drugs to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Average user of alcohol: Average user of heroin: Read Killing Pablo, then say drugs should be legalized. Talk about propoganda, you think I care about that dude with a needle in his arm or the guys have drinks? I don't care about any of them, more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It comes down this issue for me: personal responsibility. I am an adult. If I decide to smoke marijuana, and I function within society, pay taxes, and do not cause a disturbance to my neighbor, then there is no reason for anyone to tell me how to live my existence. That's American, and that is the Western principles on which this nation was founded. Thats great, good for you, :applause: but most people, especially drug users, dont have any personal responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Talk about propoganda, you think I care about that dude with a needle in his arm or the guys have drinks? I don't care about any of them, more power to them. Oh I get it now...you only care about yourself and YOUR wants. Screw society at large. If its all about you now, well hell, lets legalize it all now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 1 million people buy a dime bag = $10 million. 1 million people buy a dime bag with a one dollar tax and that's a million dollars you didn't have before. That can go to schools, roads, providing health to all americans, anything. And trust me when I say a lot more then 1 million people buy dime bags in this country in one day. You'd be shocked how many people in this county buy weed on a daily basis. Please refer to my post where some actual numbers are quoted.... Why do people point out the health care costs associated with alcohol and cigs yet completly ignore the bodily damage illegal drugs to you? EXACTLY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 How about this, everytime you buy a bag of weed, send $5 to the government? Why do people point out the health care costs associated with alcohol and cigs yet completly ignore the bodily damage illegal drugs to you? Because I'm cool right now with the effects of weed, I enjoy weed, and anything higher then that I wouldn't have to worry about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Oh I get it now...you only care about yourself and YOUR wants. Screw society at large. If its all about you now, well hell, lets legalize it all now! Am I any different then the average self-centered American? Natural selection will run its course and at the end of the day I'll still be living the life I chose to live. Contribute to who I want to contribute to, and if I get taxed, oh well. This IS a me-first society, don't get it twisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Am I any different then the average self-centered American? Natural selection will run its course and at the end of the day I'll still be living the life I chose to live. Contribute to who I want to contribute to, and if I get taxed, oh well. This IS a me-first society, don't get it twisted. And you don't see this as a problem? And you don't want to do anything to help correct this?? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I think its funny that the same people who argue that millions of dollars are spent "with out results" on the war on drugs, are the same people that are making the war on drugs a failure. If you don't want you tax dollars wasted, stop using drugs. First of all, out of this entire argument, we have to remember that there is strong evidence that the DEA and the CIA have been involved in the heroin and cocaine trade, so even if we all went stone sober, this would not change anything. Second, the drug war isn't merely about controlling the drug trade and users, but it is also about finances, politics, and control. You would first have to convince me that the War on Drugs was actually initiated with our "good" in mind. Sorry, I do not support the Mommy / Daddy form of government. And, last but not least, that is not a valid argument in my mind: I would not change any habits to stop a government program. Forget that. That's like saying, "Well, if you want to stop the ban or restrictions on firearms, turn in your firearms." You can use this argument about ANY government-sponsored program - "If you want to stop the government from doing "A," then stop doing "B." Wow, what a wonderful method to control the populace: "If you want us to STOP, then YOU stop." Nice coercion there, eh? Ummm. Just say no to totalitarianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 And you don't see this as a problem? And you don't want to do anything to help correct this?? :doh: At 17 years old, I'm not thinking about giving my money to charity. I'm the type of person that only helps people that want to be helped, you know family or close friends, and in return I want to be left the hell alone with what I do. Is that too hard to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Alright, then what is the intuitive estimate on the cost of legalizing all drugs?And what is the intuitive estimate on the additional revenue that would be realized? Unless you don't want to be involved in a civilized debate or cite facts. How much will legalizing drugs cost? 0* How much will we save? the amount spent on police, trials, jails used for drug enforcement, the war on drugs in general, taxation gained *I read that article and the claim of 100 billion lost in health care, and productivity was cited just as "Substance Abuse 8-16." (some paper published at Brandeis University I think) So unless I know the methodology of calculating that number I will completely ignore it, but assuming it is true (BIG assumption) it would only be relevant if the health care and productivity costs are paid by the tax payer, if it is health insurance or out of pocket then it isn't any of our business. Secondly why not just say those who use certain drugs recreationally must pay for their own health care? Thirdly, why couldn't taxes be raised to the point that it covers costs, if there even is a cost? (Now, if you can find the copy of that paper and post the methodology behind the number we can discuss it but I couldn't find it online. Also, seeing as how it only posted the numbers that are beneficial ie 100 billion for health care, but only 12% and not the total amount of money then I am inclined to think it has too much of an agenda to be taken seriously at all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 At 17 years old, I'm not thinking about giving my money to charity. I'm the type of person that only helps people that want to be helped, you know family or close friends, and in return I want to be left the hell alone with what I do. Is that too hard to ask? And this is where you have to understand one thing....buying a quarter oz. has ramifications that extend beyond YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Am I any different then the average self-centered American? Natural selection will run its course and at the end of the day I'll still be living the life I chose to live. Contribute to who I want to contribute to, and if I get taxed, oh well. This IS a me-first society, don't get it twisted. Fine, then worry about what YOU want to do, and stop arguing that heroin and crack and meth and drugs that you dont even do should be legalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 At 17 years old, I'm not thinking about giving my money to charity. I'm the type of person that only helps people that want to be helped, you know family or close friends, and in return I want to be left the hell alone with what I do. Is that too hard to ask? Perhaps you should move out of the US then...or just not work and don't pay taxes. It isn't about just giving money to charity. And yes, it is too hard to ask. If people actually gave a **** about each other, things would be far better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Secondly why not just say those who use certain drugs recreationally must pay for their own health care? Thirdly, why couldn't taxes be raised to the point that it covers costs, if there even is a cost? Most people, even those that do not use narcotics, cannot afford their own health care so that wouldn't be a viable solution I would prefer not to raise taxes in order to cover the costs of legalized narcotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 # of alcohol related deaths a year http://www.stopaddiction.com/narconon_alcohol_deaths.html * Tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths) * Poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%) * Alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%) (Note: 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related vehicle crashes are included in both Alcohol consumption above and Motor vehicle crashes below.) * Microbial agents (75,000) * Toxic agents (55,000) * Motor vehicle crashes (43,000)(see Note above) * Incidents involving firearms (29,000) * Sexual behaviors (STDs, hepatitis B and C, and cervical cancer) (20,000) * Illicit use of drugs (17,000) WHAT? the number of death related to alcohol consumption is 5 times greater than the total ALL deaths related to the illicit use of drugs, no way! Now for all the people whining about health care, why don't you outlaw fat people and fat foods if you care so much for the health of people and the cost of the health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Are there any that don't? There are users and abusers of many substances. There are also abusers of their driving ability as well. Since we have so many drivers, are we doing to ban vehicles? No. But there is a greater chance that you will be directly negatively affected by another driver than a drug user. Does alcohol cause more problems because of its nature? Or because it is probably used and abused at a migh higher level? The "or at least marijuana" comment does not seem to coincide with the rest of your post. It seems you advocate a complete legalization of all drugs...and all weapons. Why the qualifier? Alcohol causes problems because it is both more commonly abused as well as the physical ailments that result from heavy use, as well as the high incident of overdose from overuse. It is probably the most abused drug in our society. Keep in mind, I like alcohol, so I would not advocate its outlaw or temperance. Also, regarding the "marijuana" statement, of course there is a qualifier. Folks are much more likely to decriminalize or legalize marijuana than hard drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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