rincewind Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Obviously, the drug war isn't working. For whatever reason, people like to get ****ed up, always have always will. :laugh: Dennis Miller once said something along the lines of "If drugs didn't exist, you would have millions of people out on their front lawns spinning around just to get dizzy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz4evr Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Drugs should not be illegal. Stupidity should be. Weed is illegal because the Duponts lobbied heavily in Washington so that all the uses of hemp would not destroy their products' marketability. Nylon was about to be introduced, and they already had many products that could have been replaced with hemp. After decades of misinformation from the govt. at least this one drugs' illegal status should be revised, but now drug enforcement is such big business they can't change any laws. Anyone who believes our govt. isn't making money bringing coke into this country is a damn fool. There are so many accounts of DEA and CIA drug wars /disputes in Central America it's not even funny.So they get paid both ways. And doctors use coke to numb patients' noses before plastic surgery, morphine is still widely used, so illegal drugs are used by the medical profession. The real reason is simply REVENUE. MONEY rules this world and our govt. is one of the greediest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Wow, I keep seeing post after post about addiction addiction. Still, I can't find a single argument explaining who somebody's addiction is MY problem. Homelsss people on the street all the time, not my problem. Why? Because if I was homeless not a single one of you would give me a dollar so I can get something to eat. Every single one of you would jump to conclusions and raise your chin at me. Ya'll know it, don't front. Don't lie to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Also, for the conservatives out there, isn't the drug war contrary to anti big government philosophy and doesn't it infringe on people's rights to make decisions regarding their own bodies? See the republican stance on Abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Anyone,and I mean ANYONE, who believes all drugs should be legalized should meet my Sister-in-law. The Heroin addicted Prostitute who only has 15% of her lung capacity left due to illness brought on by her lifestyle choices. I'm sorry to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Drugs should not be illegal. Stupidity should be. Weed is illegal because the Duponts lobbied heavily in Washington so that all the uses of hemp would not destroy their products' marketability. Nylon was about to be introduced, and they already had many products that could have been replaced with hemp. After decades of misinformation from the govt. at least this one drugs' illegal status should be revised, but now drug enforcement is such big business they can't change any laws. Anyone who believes our govt. isn't making money bringing coke into this country is a damn fool. There are so many accounts of DEA and CIA drug wars /disputes in Central America it's not even funny.So they get paid both ways. And doctors use coke to numb patients' noses before plastic surgery, morphine is still widely used, so illegal drugs are used by the medical profession. The real reason is simply REVENUE. MONEY rules this world and our govt. is one of the greediest in it. That certainly was part of it. A bigger part was racism. The president at the time was a racist homophobe (who happened to have homosexual tendencies) and it was illegalized in large part because, at the time, it was primarily a black drug. Just some food for thought, did you know that during the Regaen years Texas had a mandatory 10 year jail sentence for 1 joint? I guess that's being tough on drugs but I can't see how that would help anyone. Of course, once all the rich white people's children began getting locked up, they changed that law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Very sad.And I dont mean to come across as crass. But how would changing the legal status of drugs changed the situation? They are illegal, and your sister in law still managed to abuse them. Making them legal may have prevented it. Or it may not have. But it DEFINITELY would have made it safer to buy and been taxed to help pay for her treatment. People abuse alcohol more than any other drug. But when we tried to make it illegal, it led to a huge rise in crime and violence associated with running illegal operations. Much the same way we see today with the drug trade. Making them legal would allow more people to have access to them. More people would be able to follow the same path she did. Why aren't you saying we should be able to buy prescription drugs without a script? do you think it should be allowed to go into CVS and buy a pack of Valium or Percocet? Yes, people abuse alcohol. People become addicted to alcohol. However, one drink will not make you an addict. One hit of the White Horse, or crack will make you an addict. Instantly. as far as making just MJ legal, I can state without a doubt, if I hadn't tried MJ, I would have never done LSD,Mushrooms, Coke or any of the other things that messed up life for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes, people abuse alcohol. People become addicted to alcohol. However, one drink will not make you an addict. One hit of the White Horse, or crack will make you an addict. Instantly. ONE HIT?!?!?! You got a some proof to back that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 People that WANT to use drugs will use drugs. Whether they are illegal or not. To become an addict, a person must take the VOLUNTARY step of the first use. I have little to no respect for a person who does that. I also want to help them. But I want the money needed to help them to come from the sales and use of the drugs themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Making them legal would allow more people to have access to them. More people would be able to follow the same path she did. Why aren't you saying we should be able to buy prescription drugs without a script? do you think it should be allowed to go into CVS and buy a pack of Valium or Percocet? Yes, people abuse alcohol. People become addicted to alcohol. However, one drink will not make you an addict. One hit of the White Horse, or crack will make you an addict. Instantly. First, you can buy those drugs online without much trouble. Besides, the drug companies annually produce twice the narcotics as are prescribed. They know they're getting abused but they're making money so it doesn't matter. Second, I hate to tell you this but pretty much anyone who wants it already has access to drugs. Legalizing it would at least make it harder for kids to get as drug dealers don't check IDs. When I was in high school, I could get weed from school anytime I wanted. I at least had to talk an adult into breaking the law if I wanted cigs or alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Wow, I keep seeing post after post about addiction addiction. Still, I can't find a single argument explaining who somebody's addiction is MY problem. Homelsss people on the street all the time, not my problem. Why? Because if I was homeless not a single one of you would give me a dollar so I can get something to eat. Every single one of you would jump to conclusions and raise your chin at me. Ya'll know it, don't front. Don't lie to yourself. It becomes your problem when tax money goes to fund the rehab for someone that didn't mean to get hooked. Just like homelessness is your problem when tax money pays to help out homeless people. And that isn't "frontin'" Guarantee me that not a single tax dollar will go to "treating" someone that wanted to smoke, snort, or shoot their way for some good times or through some rough times and I may consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 ONE HIT?!?!?! You got a some proof to back that up? Yes. My sister-in-law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes. My sister-in-law. I'm sorry your sister-in-law is sick, and i really don't mean to sound insensitive - but to say that you become instantly addicted after just one hit is way, way off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 See the republican stance on Abortion. Side topic really.... The first choice made by the person was to get pregnant, the SECOND choice was to try and fix the 1st one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It becomes your problem when tax money goes to fund the rehab for someone that didn't mean to get hooked. Just like homelessness is your problem when tax money pays to help out homeless people. And that isn't "frontin'" Which is why if it was legal we would not only save billions by not fighting it but would make more than enough from taxes from sales of drugs to pay for those programs. Right now, all we do is throw money at the problem without getting a cent back AND with no real progress ever being made. The problem is, many people will be drawn to drugs, it's an undeniable part of human nature, legality has never been able to stop that fact. Why keep throwing money into a bottomless pit? When do we decide that education and improving quality of life are better ways of combating drug use than imprisonment, which obviously doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Which is why if it was legal we would not only save billions by not fighting it but would make more than enough from taxes from sales of drugs to pay for those programs. Right now, all we do is throw money at the problem without getting a cent back AND with no real progress ever being made. I would be interested in seeing any factual evidence that supports your first statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I would be interested in seeing any factual evidence that supports your first statement. It is intuitively obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Making them legal would allow more people to have access to them. More people would be able to follow the same path she did. Why aren't you saying we should be able to buy prescription drugs without a script? do you think it should be allowed to go into CVS and buy a pack of Valium or Percocet? Yes, people abuse alcohol. People become addicted to alcohol. However, one drink will not make you an addict. One hit of the White Horse, or crack will make you an addict. Instantly. as far as making just MJ legal, I can state without a doubt, if I hadn't tried MJ, I would have never done LSD,Mushrooms, Coke or any of the other things that messed up life for a few years. Don't blame weed for you're faults, that's just weak-minded, childish, bullsh*t. Weed never made me do anything I didn't want to do. And I've already made up my mind I won't do anything stronger. I know my limits, I know what I can and cannot do. Some of the same people I went to high school with are on crack now, I'm not like them, don't even talk to them anymore. I don't mess with the yayo. It shocks me to no end how people twice my age lack half the will-power I have. Just blows my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 I would be interested in seeing any factual evidence that supports your first statement. :laugh: Denial. It ain't just a river, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I'm sorry your sister-in-law is sick, and i really don't mean to sound insensitive - but to say that you become instantly addicted after just one hit is way, way off base. First off, I'm glad she's sick. And I wish for her to die. I know that makes me an ass, but I don't care. you didn't come across as insensitive as all. The point i am making about addiction is this: Your body may not be physically addicted, you mind however will be. I've known plenty of drug users in my life. I don't know any who used coke or herion only once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumrunner6900 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Which is why if it was legal we would not only save billions by not fighting it but would make more than enough from taxes from sales of drugs to pay for those programs. Right now, all we do is throw money at the problem without getting a cent back AND with no real progress ever being made. I would be interested in seeing any factual evidence that supports your first statement. Interesting read that refustes this statement.... http://www.sarnia.com/groups/antidrug/argument/myths.html The claim that legalization provides an opportunity to tax new products is misleading. For example, total tax revenue from the sale of alcohol is $13.1 billion a year, but alcohol extracts over $100 billion a year in social costs such as health care and lost productivity.[48] There is no evidence to demonstrate that taxing cocaine, heroin, and marijuana would bolster revenues any more than do alcohol and tobacco, nor would the revenue from such taxation offset the social and medical costs these illicit drugs would impose. The pro-drug lobby argues that legalization will save on enforcement costs. But elimination of drug enforcement would provide little funding for other uses. The government now spends 3.3 percent of its budget on the criminal justice system and half of that goes to enforcement. Less than 12 percent of law enforcement money goes to drug law enforcement.[49] Former Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare Joseph Califano cautions that in a post-legalization world, "Madison Avenue hucksters would make it as attractive to do a few lines [of cocaine] as to down a few beers."[50] This would line the pockets of legal drug producers, but it will clearly hurt the American taxpayer and American families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Don't blame weed for you're faults, that's just weak-minded, childish, bullsh*t. Weed never made me do anything I didn't want to do. And I've already made up my mind I won't do anything stronger. I know my limits, I know what I can and cannot do. Some of the same people I went to high school with are on crack now, I'm not like them, don't even talk to them anymore. I don't mess with the yayo. It shocks me to no end how people twice my age lack half the will-power I have. Just blows my mind. I agree completely. Nobody can ruin your life except you. To me, blaming your actions on drugs is akin to saying "the voices made me do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 There are millions of drugs users, including cocaine users, who function within society without any difficulty. If we are going to allow alcohol and cigarettes, both of which cause more trouble more so than any other drug, then it is completely illogical to continue criminalization of other drugs. It is the same argument that I use against firearm bans: There is not any evidence that a drug ban has been effective. Nor do I understand folks who support firearm ownership, but are against the decriminalization of drugs, or at least marijuana. They are very similar issues of freedom, i.e., "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Also, you can argue that they are also both Constitutional issues as well. It comes down this issue for me: personal responsibility. I am an adult. If I decide to smoke marijuana, and I function within society, pay taxes, and do not cause a disturbance to my neighbor, then there is no reason for anyone to tell me how to live my existence. That's American, and that is the Western principles on which this nation was founded. "Don't tread on me." If you agree with me, vote Libertarian, and vote often - forget the mainstream political parties that want to enforce THEIR will upon YOU with coercion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 There are millions of drugs users, including cocaine users, who function within society without any difficulty.If we are going to allow alcohol and cigarettes, both of which cause more trouble more so than any other drug, then it is completely illogical to continue criminalization of other drugs. It is the same argument that I use against firearm bans: There is not any evidence that a drug ban has been effective. Nor do I understand folks who support firearm ownership, but are against the decriminalization of drugs, or at least marijuana. They are very similar issues of freedom, i.e., "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Also, you can argue that they are also both Constitutional issues as well. It comes down this issue for me: personal responsibility. I am an adult. If I decide to smoke marijuana, and I function within society, pay taxes, and do not cause a disturbance to my neighbor, then there is no reason for anyone to tell me how to live my existence. That's American, and that is the Western principles on which this nation was founded. "Don't tread on me." If you agree with me, vote Libertarian, and vote often - forget the mainstream political parties that want to enforce THEIR will upon YOU with coercion. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 It is intuitively obvious Alright, then what is the intuitive estimate on the cost of legalizing all drugs? And what is the intuitive estimate on the additional revenue that would be realized? Unless you don't want to be involved in a civilized debate or cite facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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