Any Extreme members have a reef fishtank setup? [Fresh water also discussed]

[CHUBAKAH]

do i sense a little sarcasm? :whoknows:

in theory, it should work with any number of gallons, once the plants and macroalgaes are up and running. are you insinuating i'd need several hundred gallons because problems in those tanks would have a less drastic effect on the system? i know it would be harder to do it with a smaller number of gallons, but i think its possible.

right now im thinking about a 29 gal to start with(and to keep cost down). initially i wanted a 55 or a 75, but that doesnt seem to increase your stocking options much. for instance, the minimum size for most tangs is 75-120 gals. eventually i'd like to get a 120, and then use my 29 as a sump or a refugium.

Yeah, there is a little sarcasm in there. While in theory, I don’t see it. You may be able to set up an eco system in a 29 gal tank, but when reality sets in, unless you change the water on a regular basis, you will lose fish. You may be able to keep fish for a while, but even if they stay alive for a while, you will most certainly shorten their life span.

I have an extra 45 gallon tank that I was thinking of using for a refugium, but in talking with several people, they all say that is a little small. I am picking one up this weekend that is 70 gallons, and is designed for 100 to 200 gallons.

I like your out of the box thinking, but I think your being just a bit naïve.

[CHUBAKAH]

haha what are those, a kind of clown fish? far into the future when i can afford to start a SW tank, ill definitely want a clown fish...why not a burgundy and gold one!

They are called Premnas biaculeatus, and yes they are a clown fish. I saw like three pairs in the store I go to the other day. They are a little expensive, so I figure I will just have to give them all a healthy contract.

:laugh:

[nickfox45]

Yeah, there is a little sarcasm in there. While in theory, I don’t see it. You may be able to set up an eco system in a 29 gal tank, but when reality sets in, unless you change the water on a regular basis, you will lose fish. You may be able to keep fish for a while, but even if they stay alive for a while, you will most certainly shorten their life span.

I have an extra 45 gallon tank that I was thinking of using for a refugium, but in talking with several people, they all say that is a little small. I am picking one up this weekend that is 70 gallons, and is designed for 100 to 200 gallons.

I like your out of the box thinking, but I think your being just a bit naïve.

ill post a link to grumpyvet's forum about this topic in a very intresting thread ive been reading. if i'm being a bit naive, maybe you're being a bit close-minded? check it out, and decide for yourself.

http://aqualinkwebforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1666090522/m/1491038691

edit: i suck at formatting, just cut and paste it! :doh:

[Grumpy Vet]

I'll stay out of the right and wrong.....fishkeeping is definitely not black or white. Very grey (gray) areas exist.

Cleanup crews are some of my favorite things of a sal****er tank. They are the snails, crabs and other critters that eat detritus, algae and other "baddies".

There is a snail called a Nassarius snail. It buries itself in the sand and when the tank is fed - they rise like the dead out of the sand and scoot around the tank. It is cool as hell.

I love the coral banded and cleaner shrimp too.....

Clean up crews - tank pit crews....or the Bubba Tyer of a tank are very cool. I like them as much if not more than my fish.

[70th Week]

how in the crap do you get rid of green algae?I have a 55 gal. with 1 albino channel cat(15 in.long),2 pictus cats and 1 s.american cichlid and recently this problem has occured and i have tried chemicals but its not working.also,the nitrate levels are always high. :whoknows:

[Raub]

On the topic of cleanup crews.

I just had to take a plecostomus out of my Malawi cichlid tank for some strange behavior. I kept noticing that one of my fish was missing more and more scales around his dorsal fin, but nothing was ever bothering him during the day. Yesterday morning when I turned on the light, his side was so chewed up there was blood.

So...last night I turned the aquarium light out, and left a dim room light on and watched the tank for a while. Sure enough, like a vampire coming out to feed, this pleco starts cruising around the top of the tank and tried to latch onto every fish he came across. He finally got to the usual victim and it was like he put the fish in a hypnotic trance or something, because it just went limp and let him chew on his side.

Weirdest thing I've ever seen out of a "cleanup crew" fish.

Needless to say....my pleco has earned some time in solitary confinement until I figure out WTH to do with it.

[Raub]

how in the crap do you get rid of green algae?I have a 55 gal. with 1 albino channel cat(15 in.long),2 pictus cats and 1 s.american cichlid and recently this problem has occured and i have tried chemicals but its not working.also,the nitrate levels are always high. :whoknows:

Need to do more water changes to get your nitrate levels down. At least 25% of the water a week. At first you might want to do 25% every other day until the nitrates are where you want them. If you're getting too much algae, you might be keeping the tank light on too much. You don't have the tank in direct sunlight do you?

[70th Week]

Need to do more water changes to get your nitrate levels down. At least 25% of the water a week. At first you might want to do 25% every other day until the nitrates are where you want them. If you're getting too much algae, you might be keeping the tank light on too much. You don't have the tank in direct sunlight do you?

I was told that but lately i've been cutting the light off but the algae keeps on growing.

[Grumpy Vet]

Are you using straight tapwater? Many times water from the tap will have all kinds of stuff in it that is conducive to algae growth. Even w/ water changes - it makes it very difficult to get rid of algae if you keep feeding the algae by a fresh supply of a mineral or something it likes to feed on in your water supply.

If it is not a big tank - you can even get one of those Brita water filter pitchers to filter water in a pinch.....

[CHUBAKAH]

I was told that but lately i've been cutting the light off but the algae keeps on growing.

It's all about the Phosphorus. Without Phosphorus in the water, algae, at least fresh water types, can't grow. Rather than me go into the details, here is a ask thread that was done on the subject.

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9807/msg00445.html

> Hello, I have several questions to ake every about algea. As I have read

> many articles about planted aqurium, I noticed that phosphate in water is

> undesirable. Phosphate can cause algea blooms. However, in all the

> fertilizers for land plants, the phosphate containt is very high. It's

> around 10. Does aquatic plants evolved in a way that it no longer needs

> abandant amount of phospahte to do well?

Nope. Phosphorus is essential for aquatic plants too.

> Why does high concentration of

> phosphate in water is associated with algea?

In many natural lakes, streams and wetlands the growth of plants and algae

is largely determined by the amount of phosphorus available. Phosphorus

is the "growth limiting" nutrient. As a result, any increase in

phosphorus levels often leads directly to an increase in the growth of

both plants and algae. Conditions in aquaria are often different.

> I understand algea need all the

> nutrients that the plants does. Why is phosphate a major nutrient

> requirement for algea?

Its a major requirement for all living things. There are no exceptions.

It's part of DNA.

> Doesn't high concentrate of other nutrients also

> cause algea booms?

Yes, if phoshorus is not growth limiting, then some other element or

environmental condition will be. An change in any condition that is the

primary growth limiting condition translates directly into a change in the

growth rate. This is a functional definition of the growth limiting

condition.

> Does algea utilisize Phosphate better than the plants?

Not to my knowledge, but rooted plants have the option of adsorbing

phosphorus from the substrate, while algae and floating plants must get it

from the water.

> In

> aqautic plants, some nutrients is still absorbed through leaves. Doesn't

> phosphate also incourage the growth og plants?

Definitely.

> Thus, should we also put

> phosphate into our subtrates and water colum to boost the growth of the

> plants?

Most fish foods contain large amounts of phosphorus, so when we add fish

food we add lots of phosphorus. In fact fish food contains phosphorus way

out of proportion to the plant's need for it. As a result phosphorus

often builds up in our tank water and substrate. When that happens,

phosphorus is no longer growth limiting.

If you aren't feeding fish in your aquarium(s) then you will need to add

phosphorus.

> If the plants win the competition for the nutrients, wouldn't algea

> have no nutrients to grow?

I'm not sure its that simple. If plants are satisfying their phosphorus

requirement by taking it from the substrate, then they won't be competing

directly with the algae, which take it from the water column.

> Wouldn't plants grow faster when essential

> nutrients are in the water column.

For rooted plants I don't know if this is true or not. Certainly it

would be true for floating plants.

> People are deliberate to take out

> phosphate in thier water. Would this action stop the growth of algea? Would

> is slow down the growth of the plants? I have algea again in my tank. I want

> to use phosphate absorbent materials, thus I want your opion.

People report mixed results using phosphate adsorbers.

If phosphorus is growth limiting, then removing it from the water column

will slow down the growth of algae and floating plants. If the rooted

plants can obtain phosphorus from the substrate, then their growth may be

uneffected. If phoshorus is not growth limiting, then removing it from

the water will have little or no effect until you bring its concentration

down to levels so low that it becomes growth limiting.

The alternative approach from Sears and Conlin is to increase the

concentrations of dissolved nutrients other than phosphorus to the point

where phosphorus becomes limiting to algae growth.

**************************************************************

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned is that when algae is present, the result will be high spikes in nitrates. Not that, that is good, but it's not near as bad as high ammonia levels.

Easy fix the eco way would be to add in one Chinese algae eater for every 30 gallons or so.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Sal****er is very expensive and high maitnence.

I have a 75 Gallon with two 12" Oscars one albino one tiger and a 8" Jack Dempsey O and of course a large plecko to keep things clean. I have had a 20" snake head and a variety of chiclids but got board and now just keep things low maitnence.

[CHUBAKAH]

ill post a link to grumpyvet's forum about this topic in a very intresting thread ive been reading. if i'm being a bit naive, maybe you're being a bit close-minded? check it out, and decide for yourself.

I read the entire thread. Thanks for the link. The guy has been banned from multiple boards for spreading his ways.

Nuff said IMO. There is more than one way to skin a cat they say, however no water changes at all?

Good luck with that.

[cgray88]

These were all taken with a camera phone, but they're not too bad. (Clicky for larger pics)

I like this pic of my Gramma:

And one of my chrimps... coolest things in the tank:

My newest addition and a few burgandy hermits:

Fishtanks rule.

[CHUBAKAH]

Not bad at all for a camera phone. I'd be interested in hearing more about your tank. How big, what type of filter setup, what kind of corals etc. etc.

Welcome to the board as well!

[cgray88]

Thanks, Chubakah...

55 gallon is the only one set up right now.

PowerCompact lighting, Prism Pro skimmer, probably up to about 65lbs of live rock now, mostly Fiji, but a few stray pieces of aquacultured rock from Tampa Bay Sal****er. Those are my best pieces, I think...

5 fish... pair of false percs, bi-color blenny, 6 line wrasse and the gramma... lots of critters... all the hermits and snails, 3 mythrax crabs, a sally lightfoot... that skunk cleaner shrimp and 2 peppermints. Got this purple and orange lobster that looks pretty cool, but he only comes out for a like minute once a week or so... hard to catch him.

Had the tank for about 3 years, but have only been adding the corals within the past 6-8 months or so. It was originally gonna be fish-only w/LR, but then stuff just started growing on a couple of those tbsal****er pieces that I got... that patch of briarium in the gramma pic started on one of those. Its the size of my hand now. Thought it looked cool and started adding frags. Up to a nice finger leather, a couple of mushrooms, pulsing xenia, a hammer and a torch and then I just got that brain this past weekend.

And I live in DC... so I definitely buy my water from the fish store, too.

Hoping to move up to something bigger when I get to my new house... Probably at least a year away, so I got plenty of time to save up. I'm gonna need it. heh...

[CHUBAKAH]

Sounds like the killer set up.

What do you mean by "Those are my best pieces, I think..." when talking about the Tampa bay rock?

I went to that site to check it out, but didn't see the prices posted. Any info on that?

[CrabR]

I have had fresh and sal****er setups

I got bored with tropcials so I set up a 55 gal freshwater for game fish. I have had everyting from pickrel to Brown Trout.

The Pickrel I had were very intresting and fun to feed, when they got up to 14 inches I let them go in the Potomac

When I moved down to the bay i set up a 55 gal salt water with just fish and crabs I scooped with fine mesh nets or got out of the mud of the crab pots. This was by far the best tank setup I ever had. There are some really intresting fish to be caught in the bay from sticklebacks to Sea Horses

[CHUBAKAH]

When I moved down to the bay i set up a 55 gal salt water with just fish and crabs I scooped with fine mesh nets or got out of the mud of the crab pots. This was by far the best tank setup I ever had. There are some really intresting fish to be caught in the bay from sticklebacks to Sea Horses

Do you have any pictures?

[CHUBAKAH]

BUMP

When I started this thread I was living in CA, but am now back east.

I'm looking for a few shops in the NOVA/West VA area that deals in marine fish and supplies.

I'm not in any huge rush, but would like to start getting some of the supplies so when our home is finished being built, I can get my tank started up.

I also have some fresh water equipment that I will be posting soon in the classified area if anyone is looking for bio filters and such.

Paging GrumpyVet!

[sacase]

I didn't go through the whole thread but if anyone is looking to start a salt tank, get as big as you can afford, it is easier to take care of but let me tell you it is not a cheap hobby. I have put abotu $1000 in a 29 gallon tank. Rock is about $5.00 a lb sand is fairly cheap. Tanks are not too expensive but the lights and sump are very expensive. I suggest using a refugium and tank several months to get the rock and sand established. This is not something you just want to rush into. It takes a lot of time initially but after everyting is established then they are not bad. Oh and purchase a water filter so you can save a bit of money.

My tank is on hold right now I got rid of my fish and I am just keeping the rock and sad alive till I move. Once I move I will be starting a brand new tank. I want 300 gallons but my condo will dictate the size.

[Sarge]

I'll be in this thread by the end of summer

HAving lived in Hawaii the past few years, I want to bring a little of that to the new house.

I'd love some trigger fish, but the daughter wants some Nemos. If I get an anenome(sp) will that keep Tangs and Trigger fish away from poor little Nemo?

Also, has anyone had any luck raising Moorish Idols?

I've heard they are a ***** to keep

[Lowghost]

My wife has a fresh water tank. Every fish she has bought and put in it has died. Even the freaking snail did not last very long. :mad:

We had the water tested and everything is fine with that, even checked the temp of the tank, that was fine also.

Now it is just a tank, can't call it a fish tank, there aren't any fish that have been able to survive in it. :doh:

[Reic]

They have sal****er aquariums at ODU that I will be working with in the Marine Biology program. I will get my start there and put in a freshwater aquarium in my apartment.

Nice looking aquariums in this thread

[Grumpy Vet]

BUMP

.........Paging GrumpyVet!

Just got back from a wedding in IL....

Let me see if I can offer a bit of advice. I generally get the majority of my equipment used as people upgrade or from an online supplier. I would bet 60% of my equipment was purchased used.....this has saved thousands of dollars over the course of my 10 year hobby.

Good online suppliers are:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/

http://www.hellolights.com/

Great places to get quality used equipment - some of these you need to register in order to see the "classified" sections.

http://www.wamas.org/

http://www.cmas-md.org/

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/index.php?s=&menu=2

http://www.ebay.com

As for local stores - I do most of my shopping around Baltimore.....

**Aquarium Central in Randallstown, MD

**Exotic Aquatics in Baltimore, MD

Tropical Lagoon in Glen Burnie, MD

Totally Fish, Silver Spring, MD

Roozens in Ft. Washington, MD (not as much)

I'm sure if you hopped on to one of the local forums listed above...especially WAMAS - Washington Area Marine Aquarists Society....they could steer you to stores close to you.....

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/states/va.html

If I get an anenome(sp) will that keep Tangs and Trigger fish away from poor little Nemo?

Sadly, an anenome won't preclude attacks. Tang (in a 75G+) should be fine w/ a clown. Triggers more than likely won't harm a clown but are aggressive and could.....additionally they will eat all your snails and crabs.

[sacase]

I'll be in this thread by the end of summer

HAving lived in Hawaii the past few years, I want to bring a little of that to the new house.

I'd love some trigger fish, but the daughter wants some Nemos. If I get an anenome(sp) will that keep Tangs and Trigger fish away from poor little Nemo?

Also, has anyone had any luck raising Moorish Idols?

I've heard they are a ***** to keep

Do NOT get a Moorish Idol till you have a significant amount of experience and some spare money. They are extremely difficult, in fact one of the most difficult fish to keep. Do as much reading as you can about them before you purchase one.