Any Extreme members have a reef fishtank setup? [Fresh water also discussed]

[nickfox45]

i like the sound of the refugium, seems to accomplish many things at once. so its just hooked up to the main tank through some drilled holes and then tubing?

still several questions though... how does it transfer the 'food' and other things you speak of, or do you need to take them out yourself? what is the benefit of keeping other living things in it(i understand you can 'grow' live rock) but what about all the plant matter? thanks.

[Kevin101]

I have a 55 gallon freshwater that I plan to eventually turn in to sal****er, but it takes time, patience, and a lot of money, but the outcome will be one of the greatest things u will see. You can do a lot with a 100 gallon tank.

[CHUBAKAH]

Perhaps this will help

http://petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/seascope/00SS1701.htm

In a reef aquarium system a refugium is an additional tank, connected to the display tank, that may contain live rock, sand, macroalgae, corals, and possibly even fish, depending on the intent of the aquarist. There are many benefits to having a refugium. They include increased total water volume for the system, which allows an increased bioload without an increase in waste accumulation. Another benefit is the possibility for reverse daylight photosynthesis, lighting the refugium for a period opposite the day in the main tank, to help reduce pH fluctuation during the dark hours. A third benefit is the additional space provided that can be used for quarantine or propagation. Finally, refugia can be a place for live food organisms to thrive and reproduce without the direct threat of over-predation by the animals in the main display tank.

For a food-producing refugium to operate most efficiently it should be located higher than the main tank. Water is pumped into the refugium from the sump or the main tank and then flows into the main tank. Occasionally an amphipod or copepod or other planktonic animal will get drawn into the main tank, where it can be consumed by a fish or by coral. The majority of the food animals will stay in the refugium.

Unfortunately, many mini-reef aquarium hobbyists don't have the space to set up a refugium on the display tank, and I am among them. Following is a description of how I established a system to raise amphipods in a system separate from my main display tank. It is a simple system in a two-gallon desktop aquarium that contains one pound of live rock. After filling the tank almost to the top with water from the main tank I added one Astrea snail, a small piece of Caulerpa taxifolia, one small piece of Caulerpa racemosa, and the sponge from a small Hydrosponge® filter connected to a small power head. The power head flow rate is approximately 25 gallons per hour. There is no heater and no substrate on the bottom of the tank. The tank is lighted by a 15 watt incandescent bulb 14 to 16 hours a day. It was inoculated with 18 amphipods that were caught from the filter floss in the overflow box of my 75 gallon reef tank.

The tank gets a two quart water exchange every three to four weeks. I feed it about three times a week with either a spirulina disk or sinking plankton pellets. I drop these in when I turn off the light at night. I have pruned the Caulerpa once in two months and fed the cuttings to the yellow tang in the display tank. The Astrea snail keeps the glass relatively free of algae.

Two weeks after setting up the refugium and inoculating it with 18 amphipods I fed the tank a spirulina disk and turned off the light. After ten minutes I turned the light on and was amazed at the number of amphipods scurring over the rock to get something to eat. There were over a hundred of them. Then I decided to start harvesting animals to be fed to the display tank. I removed the power head sponge when doing a water exchange and shook it in the container of water removed from the refugium. I did not remove any amphipods from the live rock, the Caulerpa, or the tank bottom. I didn't wring out the sponge, only shook it gently. I counted 22 amphipods that I then fed to the display tank by means of a length of airline tubing. My watchman goby and orange striped cardinal ate all 22 amphipods before any of the other fish could get to them.

I have only one problem using this system. It is difficult to separate the amphipods from the tank water, as they hide in the corners of whatever container holds them. I have tried to pour the water through a 50 micron plankton filter. This will catch the amphipods but then they must be washed off the filter.

I am sure that this method could be adapted to a five or ten gallon aquarium, using a few more pounds of rock and a slightly larger power head. With minimal space and effort it is possible to culture live foods for a mini-reef display tank.

[nickfox45]

ummm...actually that was incredibly helpful. thank you! :applause:

now if only i had the tank, or the money to start this whole thing up....

might as well ask another question. what is this RO/DI water business? so far ive just used tap water and then put chemicals in it, and this has worked fine for my freshwater tank. im reading about how the copper in tap water could kill corals, so you need RO/DI water? what the heck is that?

[nickfox45]

im really impressed with the user on that forum who has managed to get a set up to where he hasnt performed a water change in 3 years. thats easily the most annoying thing to me about keeping a tank, i really would rather have an ecosystem and not have to do constant water changes, especially because my tank is mounted 5 feet off the ground... :doh:

[CHUBAKAH]

im really impressed with the user on that forum who has managed to get a set up to where he hasnt performed a water change in 3 years. thats easily the most annoying thing to me about keeping a tank, i really would rather have an ecosystem and not have to do constant water changes, especially because my tank is mounted 5 feet off the ground... :doh:

I'd say just because he has not made a water change, does not mean that this is how you are supposed to do things. Things may stay alive for a while, but chances are they will have a much shorter life span.

To your question about the water. The unit you are speaking of is a filter system that takes everything bad out of the water, and basicall give you distilled water. Not sure about where your at, but I can get sea water here from around 50c a gallon which is what I plan to do, at least for a while.

[Grumpy Vet]

Grumpy vet~ Thats an awesome tank! What kind of light are you using? And do you reaarange your rock at any time? I feel like I need to go buy more rock now after seeing your tank. grrrr.:applause:

Thanks ash. At that time I was using a combination of VHO and Halide:

48" VHO Actinic Blue 110W x 2

48" VHO 10K 110W x 2

2 - 175W 10K Metal Halide bulbs.

I found that this mix worked well for me. It gave a real nice white light that when certain fish hit that actinic - gave a really cool blue splash.

Currently I run the same halide bulbs and 2 of the VHO bulbs....but have replaced the other 2 w/ power compact bulbs when that ballast died.

This gives me the best of all worlds. You get the shimmering effect w/ the halides - the intensity of the VHOs and the compact design of the PC lights.

Running about 10 watts a gallon is pretty good. It would support just about any life.

Any other questions - fire away.....

Woops - forgot LiveRock...

I used to fool w/ my LiveRock all the time. I only made it worse. The more LR - usually the better. Better filtration, better places for critters. There is a place where I'm sure you have so much rock - your critters can't move around.....but I've never seen it. The tank in those pictures had almost 275# of Live Rock. In the breeder tank - I have about 125#....not under light.

[Grumpy Vet]

that forum rocks! ive only read a few articles, but it seems awesome. glad to find it! :applause:

Sure thing nick....they are good people. There are busier forums w/ more traffic - but if you settle in on that site - you will be welcomed and you can follow the community and trust what most say. I've been a member there for 5 years or so.....

Wow! Awesome tank grumpy. Pez has always wanted a sal****er tank.

Thank you Huly. If Wingman ever needs help - I'd be happy to help. Many people often do a "nano" system. It takes some precision and patience - but you can have a really cool - small system.

[halter91]

I keep a nice collection of clown fish, also known as the Jrock fish....they are really easy to maintain.

All kidding aside, I do have a 30 gal with 1 Ciclid, the SOB eats everything I put in the tank with it.

Are there any boards for us newbies?

[Grumpy Vet]

can any of the more knowledgeable aquarists in this thread give me the lowdown on what the hell a refugium is? im trying to figure it out elsewhere, but its confusing me. im trying to figure out the different between and a refugium and a sump, and if they are sort of the same thing, and if you have one, do you need the other? whew. :notworthy

Since I've been out pretending to work today - I see that Chewy has been keeping you in pretty good info....I'll add a little bit of my experience to some of the stuff in this thread as we go along....Cool?

i like the sound of the refugium, seems to accomplish many things at once. so its just hooked up to the main tank through some drilled holes and then tubing?

still several questions though... how does it transfer the 'food' and other things you speak of, or do you need to take them out yourself? what is the benefit of keeping other living things in it(i understand you can 'grow' live rock) but what about all the plant matter? thanks.

I've had refugiums and I've not had them. I've had sumps and not had them.

In a perfect world - I would have a sump. However, my main tank is not drilled and does not have a built in overflow. I've tried hang-on overflows....and had flood after flood after flood. I will not say anything more important than what I'm about to say:

You will buy a pre-drilled tank or a tank w/ a built in overflow.

My tank has been up and running way too long to re-do it now. When we move in several years - I will get a new tank. I'd put the biggest sump in I could. I do not like overdone sumps. Cleaner the better. No pads - No bioballs - no crap. I'd consider a skimmer if you have room.

Again - ideally - water flows out of main tank...into sump....into skimmer and back up to main tank. That is it. The sump - skims, has a heater and is where "stuff" is dosed to the tank.

Why a sump? The more water the better. Consider a 75G tank. If I'm lucky - w/ my sand bed and rock - there is maybe 40G of water in my tank. If I put a 30G tank underneath and fill it 2/3 of the way up....I've just increased my water volume 50%. This is great. Why?

Say the Redskins lose to the Cowboys b/c T.O. runs by Taylor in the last 30 seconds of the game. I'll go monkey retarded and flip out. I get up and throw my beer across the room and it lands in the tank. For a small tank - that is a huge shock. The more water volume the less volatile and dynamic the tank is. This goes for heat, foreign bodies and all other bad things. The more water - the slower things happen - and that is good. I've seen some really cool tanks where people have them on the first floor and then have a sump in the basement. The sump in the basement is 10X the size of the display tank......very stable tanks.

Perhaps this will help

http://petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/seascope/00SS1701.htm

Couple things on refugium. The caulerpa and plants give you an "export" for the bad stuff in the aquarium. Like trees help animals w/ CO2 ----> O2 - the stuff in the refugium, especially on a reverse photo-period....really help an aquarium. If you use a refugium for this - no problem on the bottom of the tank.

If you are looking for a "pod" farm......do not put a refugium on the bottom. The pump that pumps water back up to the tank mangles the critters. Put the refugium on top of the tank....but watch the main tank lights.....they will boil the refugium.....

ummm...actually that was incredibly helpful. thank you! :applause:

now if only i had the tank, or the money to start this whole thing up....

might as well ask another question. what is this RO/DI water business? so far ive just used tap water and then put chemicals in it, and this has worked fine for my freshwater tank. im reading about how the copper in tap water could kill corals, so you need RO/DI water? what the heck is that?

Not only could copper kill the corals. It will. RO/ DI is reverse osmosis / deionized water. A RO/DI filter is not that expensive and can be bought at reasonable prices. You can also buy it at grocery stores and some LFS (local fish stores). I would strongly suggest filter your water in some way and moving away from the additives. If you are going down the coral road - you'll have plenty of additives in the future.....for the corals.

I'm more of a fish guy than a coral guy.

im really impressed with the user on that forum who has managed to get a set up to where he hasnt performed a water change in 3 years. thats easily the most annoying thing to me about keeping a tank, i really would rather have an ecosystem and not have to do constant water changes, especially because my tank is mounted 5 feet off the ground... :doh:

I do smaller water changes than I probably should - but my tanks pretty much take care of themselves. As much as many people disagree w/ me - I only feed my tanks once - 2x a week. There are enough critters for my fish and things to feed off in the tank - they really don't need much food......overfeeding is bad.

I water change about 5G every other month in my 75G.....just to replace some of the essential nutrients.

One quick piece of advice - when you top off a sal****er aquarium that has lost water thru evaporation......never add salt. The salt of a sal****er aquarium remains constant.....just the water evaporates. I made this mistake when I first started and my salinity kept going through the roof. If you do a water change - then you replace sal****er w/ sal****er

Happy to help you guys - anything I can help w/ just ask.

[Grumpy Vet]

I keep a nice collection of clown fish, also known as the Jrock fish....they are really easy to maintain.

All kidding aside, I do have a 30 gal with 1 Ciclid, the SOB eats everything I put in the tank with it.

Are there any boards for us newbies?

http://aqualinkwebforum.com/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/3266032422

There is a specific board to cichlids - but this forum is a bit more generic. I'm not as up to date on freshwater - but lotta good folks on that forum. Reeveseye especially knows his stuff.

[CHUBAKAH]

Since I've been out pretending to work today - I see that Chewy has been keeping you in pretty good info....I'll add a little bit of my experience to some of the stuff in this thread as we go along....Cool?

Sounds good to me.

The one thing that is very apparent just from my 7 weeks of research is that everyone has their own way of doing things. I've read that to make sure if you go out to your local fish stores, that you are talking to someone that knows his business.

I met a guy yesterday who owns a shop, and if he sets up your system, and you lose ANYTHING in the tank within 90 days he replaces it, no questions asked. He is actually a marine biologist, and also a certified marine doctor. He has some interesting theories on how a tank should be set up, and his ideas make the hobby affordable.

I told him that I had been working with a guy who told me I was going to have to spend 1000 on a skimmer. His response was what is that guy smoking? [Kind of funny coming from an Asian guy with a heavy accent.]

Grumpy, do you have anyone or know of any sites where you can get live rock, and sand, at a reasonable price.

I’m also interested to know if there are any types that are better then the other as far as live rock?

[Tarhog]

I have a 55 gallon freshwater tank, and a 55 gallon sal****er.

My freshwater tank has two very large tiger Oscars in it. They are tough as nails and very smart fish. Very interesting - I'd recommend them although they need a lot of room.

I've had a sal****er tank for several years. I have quite a lot of live rock in it, a small protein skimmer....I've had good luck, but had several fish die recently when I added a new resident. Not sure what the problem was. I'll tell you the one thing I do not like about my sal****er tank, and thats that as the water evaporates, I get salt encrusted all over the damn thing. Its really a pain in the *** to keep clean. Sal****er tanks are definitely beautiful - but unless you need to be obsessed and continuously study to enjoy a hobby, I just don't find the trouble worth it. Just my opinion. When the remainder of my fish eventually die off, I'll likely convert it to a cichlid tank.

Good luck!

[CHUBAKAH]

Sal****er tanks are definitely beautiful - but unless you need to be obsessed and continuously study to enjoy a hobby, I just don't find the trouble worth it. Just my opinion. When the remainder of my fish eventually die off, I'll likely convert it to a cichlid tank.

Good luck!

Well if you'd spend less time on here, and more time taking care of your poor fish...

J/K

If anyone has questions about cichlids, or looking for any type of cichlid, i'll be happy to help.

[HOF44]

In the past I had a freshwater tank and kept Discus. They are some of the best looking freshwater fish I've seen. I kept 2 discus a black ghost knife and 2 angels. Once they lived out there life I didn't redo the tank.

There are many varieties of colorful discus, but they are expensive for freshwater fish and are not the easiest to keep.

I have thought about starting another tank, but it really is a big commitment. Love sal****er, but it sounds daunting.

Here a are a couple stock pics of the kind of fish I had.

[edgun88]

dude i have a question. I'm starting out a new tank, 55 gal. I'm trying the "fishless" cycle, and I was wondering where I can get and what kind of ammonia I need to start up the bacteria production for the hydrogen cycle? thanks!

[Tarhog]

Well if you'd spend less time on here, and more time taking care of your poor fish...

J/K

If anyone has questions about cichlids, or looking for any type of cichlid, i'll be happy to help.

No doubt :laugh:

Hey man, honestly, I have a 'guilt rotation' I keep up. Guilt I'm not spending enough time with the kids, guilt I'm not paying my dog enough attention, guilt I haven't seen my Dad (who lives alone) in awhile..... The aquarium is way the hell down the line......

Don't let anyone fool you though, keeping a sal****er tank running and healthy takes a lot of time and patience - if you've got it, go for it. Sounds like you're doing your homework, which is obviously the best approach. And go slow.

[CHUBAKAH]

dude i have a question. I'm starting out a new tank, 55 gal. I'm trying the "fishless" cycle, and I was wondering where I can get and what kind of ammonia I need to start up the bacteria production for the hydrogen cycle? thanks!

You lost me? You want ammonia?

If it's a fresh water tank, go out and get yourself about 20 goldfish. While "fishless" cycles work, nothing works better for fresh water tanks than the fish. As soon as they stop dying, or one month, your tank should be ready to go.

What type of filter set up are you running? Is it fresh or salt?

[edgun88]

OK, so about 20 goldfish will work? Thats cool. I didn't really want to kill any fish but if adding goldfish works to get the cycle started then I'll try it. Umm, to answer the filter question I just have a regular power filter. It's a Top Fin Model 60 and it's pretty big.

Oh yea and my aquarium is freshwater.

do you have any other pointers?

[CHUBAKAH]

OK, so about 20 goldfish will work? Thats cool. I didn't really want to kill any fish but if adding goldfish works to get the cycle started then I'll try it. Umm, to answer the filter question I just have a regular power filter. It's a Top Fin Model 60 and it's pretty big.

Oh yea and my aquarium is freshwater.

Goldfish are very hardy, and if they have some size to them, they should be ok.

Typical rule of thumb is to filter your tank 10 times an hour, meaning you need to filter 550 gallons an hour. When you have the extra cash, I would also add a canister filter to the system. It can only help with keeping your levels where they need to be.

In a few weeks, I will have some fresh water equiptment that I will be wanting to get rid of in case your interested.

A great online store if you need one is http://www.bigalsonline.com. I've used them the last 5 or 6 years.

[edgun88]

Goldfish are very hardy, and if they have some size to them, they should be ok.

Typical rule of thumb is to filter your tank 10 times an hour, meaning you need to filter 550 gallons an hour. When you have the extra cash, I would also add a canister filter to the system. It can only help with keeping your levels where they need to be.

In a few weeks, I will have some fresh water equiptment that I will be wanting to get rid of in case your interested.

A great online store if you need one is http://www.bigalsonline.com. I've used them the last 5 or 6 years.

Thanks alot man! that was a big help and I will be asking you in a few weeks about the freshwater equippment. thanks again

cool site, too

[dks1240]

This doesn't have to do with sal****er aquariums directly but it's just a quick question...

Nick(fox45) will be finishing up school in May and we have been discussing if there is anyway he can possibly get his fish safely from Boston to Maryland. Basically flying is the only option as of now, can you take the fish with you as a carry on? Anyone ever have to deal with this or have any suggestions?

[nickfox45]

dude i have a question. I'm starting out a new tank, 55 gal. I'm trying the "fishless" cycle, and I was wondering where I can get and what kind of ammonia I need to start up the bacteria production for the hydrogen cycle? thanks!

i'll probably end up bowing to chubakah's superior fish knowledge, but i'd argue against getting as many as 20 goldfish and letting them die off, for several reasons.

1. i dont think you need that many fish, theyre going to be putting A LOT of ammonia into your water, and many of the probably will die before the proper biological things start happening and break down the ammonia.

2. i think its cruel to let goldfish die just so your tank can get set up properly. you might not, but ill leave that up to you.

3. im pretty sure you can cycle your tank just as effectively with other fish instead, fish you might actually want. for instance, i cycled mine with 6 tiger barbs, a relatively hardy and cheap fish i decided i wanted long term. after cycling was done, i added 4 more. i still have all 10, and love them.

4. this is the part im really not sure on, so double check this. on a forum for SW i was reading the other day, a guy cycled his tank with a couple dead ****tail shrimp. i think that anything decomposing will release the proper bacteria you need, but im not sure on this. if this is true, you dont need to waste money/time/effort on goldfish you dont want/need.

:2cents:

[Raub]

Halter...here's a good site with a forum for cichlids: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/index.php

[CHUBAKAH]

This doesn't have to do with sal****er aquariums directly but it's just a quick question...

Nick(fox45) will be finishing up school in May and we have been discussing if there is anyway he can possibly get his fish safely from Boston to Maryland. Basically flying is the only option as of now, can you take the fish with you as a carry on? Anyone ever have to deal with this or have any suggestions?

You'll want to go to your local fish store, get a styrofoam travel box, and have the bags injected with oxygen. They will need to be the smaller boxes so they fit under the seat. Live animals can not go in the cargo on passenger planes anymore.