s0crates Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 as Brunell is the QB you cannot have it both ways. he cannot be the primary reason we were knocked out of the playoffs but NOT be a primary reason why we were there in the first place. He, as the QB, either IS or IS NOT that important.Now stop that. AJ does not like logic. j/k AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 as Brunell is the QB you cannot have it both ways. he cannot be the primary reason we were knocked out of the playoffs but NOT be a primary reason why we were there in the first place. he ,as the QB either IS or IS NOT that important. Sepcific players can be the reason why you win games, or the reason why you lose, or they can simply do their job and not be the deciding factor either way. Brunell played well enough in enough games during the season for the team to make the playoffs. He handled his part of the deal, but he didn't carry the team. In the playoffs, with his knee injured, he was incapable of making the plays he needed to make to hold up his end of the deal. As a result, the Bucs and Seahawks crowded the line of scrimmage to stop Portis, and the offense stalled out. We managed to win against the Bucs because the defense scored a touchdown. Against Seattle, they turned the ball over three times and we only managed to score 10 points because Brunell could not pass to save his life when they loaded up to stop the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I respect Coach Gibb's but agree that the handling of Ramsey was lame. Bottom line is that he should have sat him down after he stunk up the joint with his mediocre QB play in pre-season and said, "Pat you are stinkin and I am going to have take back my offer of starting you. I made an error in judgment." Then he should have told the media that the competition was open at the QB position. Also he did pay Brunell way too much money and I hope Campbell beats his ass out in training camp, but my gut tells me Campbell ain't ready and it is not going to happen. So we have one more year of..."who knows what he will do Scott, I mean Mark Brunell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana87 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 - Pierce situation, thinking him as a core redskins, i thought he would anchor our defense for years to come- Handling of Patrick Ramsey, even though he was chosen by the previous coachign staff, i have to admit that he was not given a chance in either preseason. 1) Pierce was offered a reasonable contract. He decided to go for the payday. I don't fault him, but it was his decision not to remain a core Redskin. 2) I don't know how you could say Ramsey was not given a chance in the preseason. I'm assuming you were able to watch the games. He started ever preseason game, and here are his stats... C/A YD TD INT Carolina 8/12 77 0 1 Cincinatti 9/18 190 1 2 Pittsburg 12/19 141 1 1 Baltimore 1/2 10 0 0 Chicago 6/11 105 0 1 Redskins Drive Chart (Chicago) Start Plays Yds Result 1st series 5 23 Interception 2nd series 12 26 Punt 3rd series 9 70 Fumble the second series stalled when Ramsey fumbled on 3rd down Preseason Breakdown Ramsey threw 4 Int and 2 TD's in 51 att's Brunell clearly out played him in the preseason and everyone saw it. The the season started and instead of improving it was more of the same, 3 possessions 1 int 2 fumbles no points. Please don't tell me he didn't get a chance. He had more than enough chances to prove that it was his job and he threw one bone headed interception after another. Don't get me wrong I like the kid and I think in the right system he will make someone a very good QB. He is also probably a much better QB today than he was at the start of the season. He looked sharp in the second giant game. Bottom line though he was not the QB that gave the Redskins the best chance to win period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazhog Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 well i can only name a few mistakes that gibbs has done since he has come back to the redskins. This thread really set me off... Until I noticed that "skinfan2k" is 19yrs. old... No Real Redskins fan should have anything but "GREAT" things to say about Coach Joe Gibbs!!! Gibbs has brought everything to Washington... The 3 superbowl trophies in our possession and the only ones the team has won in their history!!! Gibbs has "won" everywhere he's been, he's a proven coach who is in the Hall of Fame!!! I love this website and the fans here are amazingly informed regarding the Redskins! This is the best site for information on the web!!! Sorry to rip somebody, but this thread set me off!!! This thread should be closed... Nuff said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepyagameuP Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 how great would it have been to have pierce, marshall and washington. I think that was our 04 year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNationalist Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 my only complaints are Brunel being signed at all and the way Ramsey has been treated. Mostly just because im a big fan of patrick and was looking forward to him actualing getting to start for 1 entire season. I hope where ever he goes he gets to be a starter, i deffinatly think he has it in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think that was our 04 year.. i mean in 05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 - Handling of Patrick Ramsey, even though he was chosen by the previous coachign staff, i have to admit that he was not given a chance in either preseason. I dunno where you have been but Patrick Ramsey played a full pre-season and SUCKED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 This thread really set me off... Until I noticed that "skinfan2k" is 19yrs. old...No Real Redskins fan should have anything but "GREAT" things to say about Coach Joe Gibbs!!! Gibbs has brought everything to Washington... The 3 superbowl trophies in our possession and the only ones the team has won in their history!!! Gibbs has "won" everywhere he's been, he's a proven coach who is in the Hall of Fame!!! I love this website and the fans here are amazingly informed regarding the Redskins! This is the best site for information on the web!!! Sorry to rip somebody, but this thread set me off!!! This thread should be closed... Nuff said... yes i was too young for the first tenure, and i dont take anything away from it, im asking in the 2nd term thats all. every coaching staff in the nfl wishes it handles some situations better than they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Joe Gibbs is a GENIUS... I thought bringin in Mark Burnell for all that money was pretty crazy... Then when he was HORRIBLE his first year here and after the season Joe Gibbs told us "we haven't seen the last of Mark Brunell" I REALLY thought he was crazy... He let Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot just walk away... Now we don't regret that one big, really... He traded L. Coles for Santana Moss and had to pretty much pay Coles a boat load of money to get him outta here. Nobody thought we had RAPED the Jets how we really did... He traded a future 2nd rounder and another pick in order to move up to the 3rd round in order to get H-Back Chris Cooley. Who would have thought Cooley could be as good as he's been, for the most part? He traded this years 1st rounder in order to get a chance to move up and get Jason Campbell. The jury is still out on that one but Joe Gibbs is such a genius I can't doubt him... I can name A BUNCH of times a lot of us doubted him since he's been back and he's come through... He's a genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Joe Gibbs is a GENIUS...I thought bringin in Mark Burnell for all that money was pretty crazy... Then when he was HORRIBLE his first year here and after the season Joe Gibbs told us "we haven't seen the last of Mark Brunell" I REALLY thought he was crazy... He let Antonio Pierce and Fred Smoot just walk away... Now we don't regret that one big, really... He traded L. Coles for Santana Moss and had to pretty much pay Coles a boat load of money to get him outta here. Nobody thought we had RAPED the Jets how we really did... He traded a future 2nd rounder and another pick in order to move up to the 3rd round in order to get H-Back Chris Cooley. Who would have thought Cooley could be as good as he's been, for the most part? He traded this years 1st rounder in order to get a chance to move up and get Jason Campbell. The jury is still out on that one but Joe Gibbs is such a genius I can't doubt him... I can name A BUNCH of times a lot of us doubted him since he's been back and he's come through... He's a genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i totally agree with this statement. I have been watching redskins football since the beginning of the norv tenure and it truly was a great experience watching redskins football this past season. i only wished if i had the opportunity to watch Gibbs in his first tenre. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachingWinsChampionships Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 how great would it have been to have pierce, marshall and washington. Think about this one then. Strictly on paper, in their primes-- Lavar(back when he was annointed "the next coming of LT"), Trotter(I know he sucked here- don't go crazy on me), Washington(nothing to add, just thought I should write something here). 3 pro-bowlers, soon to be 3 multi-proBowlers(once Washington goes again this year:)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 16, 2006 Author Share Posted March 16, 2006 Think about this one then. Strictly on paper, in their primes-- Lavar(back when he was annointed "the next coming of LT"), Trotter(I know he sucked here- don't go crazy on me), Washington(nothing to add, just thought I should write something here). 3 pro-bowlers, soon to be 3 multi-proBowlers(once Washington goes again this year:)). i remember a few yrs back when he had the starting unit of LBs in the probowl. Trotter, Armstead and LA. Those were the days. Man armstead is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Sepcific players can be the reason why you win games, or the reason why you lose, or they can simply do their job and not be the deciding factor either way. Brunell played well enough in enough games during the season for the team to make the playoffs. He handled his part of the deal, but he didn't carry the team. In the playoffs, with his knee injured, he was incapable of making the plays he needed to make to hold up his end of the deal. As a result, the Bucs and Seahawks crowded the line of scrimmage to stop Portis, and the offense stalled out. We managed to win against the Bucs because the defense scored a touchdown. Against Seattle, they turned the ball over three times and we only managed to score 10 points because Brunell could not pass to save his life when they loaded up to stop the run. when your running game is working and you have more than one WR to throw to it is much easier to operate, hurt knee or not. the team got there together and they lost to seattle together. you cant put one loss, because it was the last and most important loss, squarely on Brunell and at the same time give him no credit for getting us there in the first place. as i said...as the QB he either is or is not that important. the two cannot exist at the same time. yes, at times our D carried us. but remember Brunell ran for several key first downs himself. threw a lot more TD's than INT's, 6 TD's vs. dallass alone. and more importantly the team obviously had confidence in him and his leadership. yes i agree that Brunells bum knee really hampered us against seattle but i know that Brunell also did a alot to get us to that point in the first place. no one else on the roster would have QB'd us to the 5 in a row we needed to make the playoffs, no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I've seen them all.. The Gibbs years so far have been the best... There was one year somewhere in there that was cool.. but all in all its been Gibbs or bust.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPstretch Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 worst thread of all time WTOAT WTOAT!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgun88 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 this thread is NOT a good idea. A VERY bad idea if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadirtbags Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 well i can only name a few mistakes that gibbs has done since he has come back to the redskins.- Pierce situation, thinking him as a core redskins, i thought he would anchor our defense for years to come - Handling of Patrick Ramsey, even though he was chosen by the previous coachign staff, i have to admit that he was not given a chance in either preseason -Mark Brunell's contract.. even though he took us to the playoffs last year, i think the contract was too big for a 34 yr qb. What do u think Gibbs has done wrong since he come back? Obviously we all know most of the great things he has done since he is back. i just wanted to know what u felt gibbs has done wrong in the 2yrs . Gibbs is a legend for starters...and everyone makes mistakes.....but i think Gibbs has done an incredible job the first time I witnessed him as a skins coach...and this time around he is once again up to the same tricks. I will break it down for ya..... Pierce - dude...pierce left for more money.....pierce fit in well with within GW's system and who's to say no one else around the league wont fit within his system? Pierce was on the bench prior to GW taking over this defense. Gibbs and company offered Pierce the same similar money they signed Marcus Washington for.....we could not match the money he was offered by the giants...end of story 1 Ramsey.......spurrier drafted him...spurrier also drafted Taylor Jacobs....spurrier also signed shane matthews and Dan Wuerffel ...Joe Gibbs a winner comes into town and now you criticize him for the way he handled Ramsey....did you ever consider criticizing spurrier for drafting him? I am friends with an ex football player who tried out for the skins in the late 80's.....he told me Gibbs knows players and knows who he wants playing for his team.....Now im not saying Ramsey has tons of talent...but even if he did if Gibbs said Ramsey was not a good fit to run his team...I would respect that....keep in mind too...LOL!!!! Spurrier got rid of our top back Stephen Davis for Trung Candidate!!!!! signing Mark Brunell......Gibbs wanted a vet qb to lead his team...end of story...has yet to haunt us.....Mark is still on this team.....and is a solid player ......see....whats important to others may not be important to gibbs.....gibbs does not go gaga over a guy with pure talent only.....it is very important that the QB who runs Gibbs team has brains.....can make good decisions.....I will agree, Ramsey was exciting..but he was also unpredictable. my advice to you is to look up Gibb'ss past...there are some great articles on the web about Gibbs.....there is a reason why legend QB's like Dan Foutes called Joe Gibbs an offensive genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadirtbags Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 i totally agree with this statement. I have been watching redskins football since the beginning of the norv tenure and it truly was a great experience watching redskins football this past season. i only wished if i had the opportunity to watch Gibbs in his first tenre. Those were the days. they really were....and most of us like myself who remember Gibbs his first time around were heart broken when he retired.....this time around....every decision he has made has been for a reason.....the man knows football and the man is a hero :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 A major piece of the Gibbs genius his is ability to recover from mistakes. He sets himself up with as many options as possible. For example, he brought in both Riggs and Byner, when Riggs showed he was not what Gibbs hoped, he had Byner to fallback on. He also never allows mistakes to destroy him. Of course, having multiple backup plans can also break out big. Sanders was brought in to protect against a miss with Clark. Both Clark and Sanders were hits and we got the posse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I dunno where you have been but Patrick Ramsey played a full pre-season and SUCKED. Brunnell has sucked in all about about 4 games just as Ramsey has had his ups and downs. You just dont expect so many down moments from a vet such as Brunnell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Sepcific players can be the reason why you win games, or the reason why you lose, or they can simply do their job and not be the deciding factor either way. See, here's where you've gone wrong, been wrong and will continue to go wrong until you understand this simple fact. - If Patrick Ramsey simply "did his job" to quote you, he'd be the starting QB of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Brunnell has sucked in all about about 4 games just as Ramsey has had his ups and downs. You just dont expect so many down moments from a vet such as Brunnell. :doh: We went 11-7 last season how could Brunell have sucked in all but 4 of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernCali Skins Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 well i can only name a few mistakes that gibbs has done since he has come back to the redskins. yes i think gibbs could have done better... but that does not matter, the past is the past. we went from 6-10 to 10-6... tahts all that matters did we improve? regardless of who we signed... yes as mentioned, the positives outweigh the negatives. I'll use a version from an example that my currrent Psychology Professor used... you build a table with 1000 legs, its the most amazing table ever. some people look at the legs and find a couple wobbly legs and say... "there, this table is horrible, look the leg is about to break off... this table is not amazing" bottom line, there are still 100's of legs left that are perfect... making the importance of a few faulty legs insignificant. did gibbs succeed in his 2 year plan? 6-10 to 10-6 answer= yes and the clue is in your first sentence. why can you only name a few mistakes? btw, i do agree those were mistakes but common, you are a little to late. pierce is gone, marshall is here... not a problem anymore Ramsey... well we went 10-6, did not need ramsey, blame spurrier for drafting him if you complaining... cambell is the future, not a problem anymore brunell... didnt he restructure twice after that big contract... do u have any more mistakes gibbs has done? ps.. u forgot to mention Barrow on your list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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