Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

[gchwood]

I'm surprised people are assuming there actually were weapons and that they are in Syria. We've been down this "we know there are weapons" road before. Maybe this time we should stop counting eggs as chickens.

At some point Saddam and Iraq had WMDs that is fact. There is proof of him using the biological weapons on the Kurds in his own country. So they had to go somewhere, they don't just melt into the ground. Syria, being the terrorist nation that it is, seems to be the most logical place, though they could be elsewhere.

[herrmag]

At some point Saddam and Iraq had WMDs that is fact. There is proof of him using the biological weapons on the Kurds in his own country. So they had to go somewhere, they don't just melt into the ground. Syria, being the terrorist nation that it is, seems to be the most logical place, though they could be elsewhere.

Very good statement. I've tried making this point in other threads (back when the Iraq war was getting started) and nobody really had much to say about it. I don't know how anyone could possibly deny the existence of weapons that were not only used by Saddam, but so blatantly obvious that the UN couldn't even deny the fact that Iraq had them (at least at one time).

[KevinthePRF]

At some point Saddam and Iraq had WMDs that is fact. There is proof of him using the biological weapons on the Kurds in his own country. So they had to go somewhere, they don't just melt into the ground. Syria, being the terrorist nation that it is, seems to be the most logical place, though they could be elsewhere.

The act your talking about happened in 1988. See: First Gulf War and aftermath to find your answer.

[Duckus]

You know that we can't assasinate foriegn leaders according to foriegn policy and the geneva convention

:laugh: Yea - thats stopped us is the past.

[Hooper]

I'd like to believe this. Actually no I wouldn't, because that would mean there a lot of WMDS out there.

[chomerics]

What a freakin joke this is. People STILL don't get the fact that EVEN IF weapons were in his posession, they were LON LONG since past their usefullness date. The WMDs he possesed had a shelf life on the order of months, not decades. That is why it was so instrumental for the Bushies to say he was ACTIVE in MAKING WMDs, and not they were left over.

This is yet another bad argument about trying to justify the war by the righties because they've been caught in a eggregious blunder. So instead of admitting the mistake, they throw any crap against the wall to see what sticks.

And yes, the article said they were shipped in airliners, but does anyone think that we couldn't detect a massive movement of arms and supplies from the supposed WMD generating sites? It is simple amazing to me why people believe anything that remotely clings to their ideology, no matter how insanely ludicrous the assertion, and that is not singling out republicans because dems do the same thing.

[chomerics]

I'd like to believe this. Actually no I wouldn't, because that would mean there a lot of WMDS out there.

They are not active anyways, so it makes absolutely no difference if they are out there or not. It is actually LESS dangerous then a conventional LEGAL weapon.

Funny though how a high ranking general in Saddam's army isn't arrested, detained, and interrogated but allowed to write a book isn't it.

[dreamingwolf]

It is simple amazing to me why people believe anything that remotely clings to their ideology, no matter how insanely ludicrous the assertion, and that is not singling out republicans because dems do the same thing.

(on the WMDs supposedly shipped to syria)They are not active anyways, so it makes absolutely no difference if they are out there or not. It is actually LESS dangerous then a conventional LEGAL weapon.

Funny though how a high ranking general in Saddam's army isn't arrested, detained, and interrogated but allowed to write a book isn't it.

that is priceless.

[Predicto]

The fact that this guy claims this in a book he is trying to sell does not mean that much. We should investigate this, of course, like we should investigate all such claims.

Of course, I am sure we have been investigating it for two years now. You mean to tell me that we can't find any of the guys who loaded those alleged planes, or flew them? You trying to tell me that in the months before the war, when we were watching the whole country like hawks with all of the high tech spying equipment at our disposal in preparation for a full scale invasion, that we didn't get an inkling of this? There is a reason that our own Administration never makes such a claim.

We were sold a bill of goods by Ahmed Chalabi. Why are we letting it happen a second time buy a guy who is selling a book?

While we are on the subject....

I also find the assumption that Iraq and Syria were so buddy buddy that Saddam would just blithely send a bunch of active WMDs to his dictator neighbor to the west to be kind of silly. We are talking about Saddam Hussein, a man so paranoid that he routinely killed members of his own family and inner circle out of fear of a coup. You think he trusted Assad, the dictator of another country, one which itself has always claimed to be the rightful leader of pan-Arab nationalism?

People act as though these countries in the Middle East are all one big happy family, united in their hatred of Israel and the West. They do hate us, but they are anything but united. They do not trust each other one bit, and rightfully so, since they are all dictator scum and know full well how untrustworthy they themselves are. They fear each other, spy on each other, often declare war on each other.

Here's another question. Let's look at it from Syria's point of view. Syria may be a dictatorship but that doesn't mean they are led by a moron. Syria sees the Taliban get obliterated. Syria sees the forces arrayed against Iraq, hears the invasion rhetoric building up. They know that there is a damn good chance that the whirlwind is coming for Iraq next, that the most powerful military force in the history of the world is going to blow Saddam off the map.

So how do you think Syria is going to react when Saddam says: "hey Assad old buddy, could you hide this stuff for me? I don't want the Americans to find it."

Are they gonna say, "sure, why not? Got nothing better to do. It'll be funny to fool 'em." Or are they gonna say "Get the hell away from me! You think I want the Marines in Damascus next? You pulled the tail of that tiger, that is your problem. I like my palace, thank you very much." You think Assad doesn't like being a dictator anymore, and he wants us to risk us coming for him next? No freaking way.

This is all wishful thinking, people. This is people who still cannot accept that the WMDs we expected to find turned out not to be there. There were there, where could they have gone, I know - Syria! People cannot accept that we got conned, and they grasp at straws.

I am sure that the majority of you are going to just attack me as a liberal with his head in the sand, and that is too bad. I ask you to please think about what I am saying here and respond on the merits. Then you can insult me too.

[dreamingwolf]

I also find the assumption that Iraq and Syria were so buddy buddy that Saddam would just blithely send a bunch of active WMDs to his dictator neighbor to the west to be kind of silly. We are talking about Saddam Hussein, a man so paranoid that he routinely killed members of his own family and inner circle out of fear of a coup. You think he trusted Assad, the dictator of another country, one which itself has always claimed to be the rightful leader of pan-Arab nationalism?

People act as though these countries in the Middle East are all one big happy family, united in their hatred of Israel and the West. They do hate us, but they are anything but united. They do not trust each other one bit, and rightfully so, since they are all dictator scum and know full well how untrustworthy they themselves are. They fear each other, spy on each other, often declare war on each other.

Here's another question. Let's look at it from Syria's point of view. Syria may be a dictatorship but that doesn't mean they are led by a moron. Syria sees the Taliban get obliterated. Syria sees the forces arrayed against Iraq, hears the invasion rhetoric building up. They know that there is a damn good chance that the whirlwind is coming for Iraq next, that the most powerful military force in the history of the world is going to blow Saddam off the map.

So how do you think Syria is going to react when Saddam says: "hey Assad old buddy, could you hide this stuff for me? I don't want the Americans to find it."

Are they gonna say, "sure, why not? Got nothing better to do. It'll be funny to fool 'em." Or are they gonna say "Get the hell away from me! You think I want the Marines in Damascus next? You pulled the tail of that tiger, that is your problem. I like my palace, thank you very much." You think Assad doesn't like being a dictator anymore, and he wants us to risk us coming for him next? No freaking way.

I know you think your smarter than everyone and know everything, so Im not gonna say your wrong. just look at this link and look at this, and then rethink what I quoted of you.

"137 Iraqi aircraft flown to Iran"

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/

thats from gulf war I, and take note that just a few years earlier he was dropping chem weapons on Iran.

:edit:

also I still think like I do in my first post in this thread, Im sceptical about this guys claim.

[Air Force Cane]

it is not worse if indeed they are in Syria.

Syria already had a WMD program. This simply takes out Saddam, gives a possibility of democracy in the heart of the Arab world, and demonstrated our strength.

if Saddam would have stayed in power the sanctions would have collapsed, and jihadis everywhere would be attacking us on all sides. Psychology is hugely important to Arabs-

as Bin-Laden says "the people go with the strong horse". if we had backed down to Saddam it would be open season on America. as it is, if we simply don't give up we win.

next on to Iran...

[ZoEd]

as much as I want to believe this guy, theres just something uncredible about someone who takes this long to tell us this.

another thing I disagree with this article about is that it says this will alter the political debate over the iraq war, and I dont think it will change the lefts stance on the war. Many of the leftists(and isolationist and pacifists) complain that saddam was no threat with or without wmd's, that he was contained and was passive, and that there was nothing to gain from the conflict only to lose.

So it really doesnt matter if its true that they sent their wmd's to syria, other than put syria in the sights. Your still gonna hear illegal war, Bush lied(maybe they will focus more on saddams threat than wmd's but thats it), and it wasnt worth it. Im wondering, if this is true, if these generals were expecting monetary compensation from hassad for the delivery, and were had.

I spent four months in Iraq this past spring and I'm speaking from personal expereince not from political agenda or facts brought to me by the mediots.

I had the pleasure of speaking to several Iraqi nationals and no matter what part of the Iraq they were from or what their religion one thing was consistent among them all. They were extremely happy and relieved that Saddam was no longer in power. We as Americans cannot comprehend the fear that these people lived and still do live in. I promise, you can't comprehend it.

We had men driving concrete trucks for us on the base. One day they didn't show up at the gate to report to work because one of them had been killed and the others were afraid for their lives. I sat the day before and spoke to this gentleman for quite sometime about his culture and life in general. He appeared to be a good man risking his life to feed his family. He paid the ultimate price.

Outside of the base the remnants of a stadium stood looming over bombed out buildings. We had a translator who played for the Iraqi National basketball team. We played some pickup games with him at the gym. He had an amazing jump shot and spoke english fluently. He told me a story about how his entire basketball team was gathered, tied up and put in the back of a truck. They were being taken to the stadium mentioned above. Him and his friend jumped from the back of the moving vehicle and fled into a nearby villiage. The rest of his team was executed for no aparent reason. He said the stadium was used more for executions than it was for sporting events.

While on a convoy delivering school supplies donated by friends and families from here in the states I met the Mayor of a small town north of Kirkuk. The commander of the convoy made this comment to the Mayor "it's a beautiful day isn't it?" The mayor replied "every day without Saddam is a beautiful day." Here in America our children see banners depicting the food pyrimad, SADD, MADD or various other clever acronyms on their school walls. On the walls of Iraqi students schools their banners depict mines, rockets and bombs, how to identify them and what to do if found. They can't even play in their backyards for fear of their lives.

While doing a job in the heart of Kirkuk at the old Iraqi Intelligence Agency building it was brought to my attention to notice the Iraqi people walking down the street in front of the building. I did and noticed that all the people passing the building did so with their heads down, never casting their gaze upon the building. Why, because during Saddam and his regime's reign anyone caught doing so was executed on the spot. I was then taken to a makeshift gym the soldiers put together and was given a tour of the 6'X4' cells still baring the marks and blood of prisoners held there.

You ask why this brave Man took so long to come out with this story. I ask you a man who has never experienced such fear, what would you do? I could tell you a couple more stories but I think you get the point.

[ZoEd]

Of course, I am sure we have been investigating it for two years now. You mean to tell me that we can't find any of the guys who loaded those alleged planes, or flew them? You trying to tell me that in the months before the war, when we were watching the whole country like hawks with all of the high tech spying equipment at our disposal in preparation for a full scale invasion, that we didn't get an inkling of this? There is a reason that our own Administration never makes such a claim.

Did you read the article? Chirac said it happened, this man said it happened, Rumsfeld said he'd heard the same thing. I've been hearing this accusation since the war started. You're making it sound like this guy is lying to sell a book.

Saddam might not have been buddy buddy with Asad but he didn't want to get caught with his pants down either. I don't think Saddam actually thought we would assault Iraq the way we did. Why should he? The previous administration had been casting idle threats for eight years.

[herrmag]

The act your talking about happened in 1988. See: First Gulf War and aftermath to find your answer.

Oh, you mean the UN's wonderful resolution? Oh, okay. Like when Saddam wouldn't allow the inspectors to roam freely, and how he eventually kicked them out of Iraq. That "resolution". Wow, it was filled with answers.

[dreamingwolf]

zoed

well this guy was the only top level official to ever stand up to saddam hussein and not die. Once he was sent to prison for not carrying out an order to execute US Airmen, an act that saved their lives, and was forced to resign at one point cause he wouldnt join the baath party. Hes a prysbeterian christian and he lived in a saddam iraq, this guy had no shortage of balls and I really dont think this guy had much fear of anything. saddam had an affinity for him cause of his skill with organizing air wings and seemed to let him do what he wanted.

we are talking about General Sada right?

I understand what your saying, but Im just saying that its hard to take without evidence when its announced so belated in association with a book deal thats all.

[Predicto]

Dreamingwolf, I'm sorry that you think that I believe I am smarter than everyone else. Actually, isn't that what we all think here? :laugh:

Actually, I suspect that Ignatious is smarter than I am by a mile, but that is a different story...

Anyhow, believe me when I tell you that I honestly, truly and sincerely hope we DO find the WMDs, either in Syria or somewhere. I want us to be the good guys, always. I do not want my country going to war on false pretenses. I don't want the world hating and fearing us. Much of my hostility toward the current administration comes from my feeling that they lie to us all the time. I would like to be proved wrong on this one.

[dreamingwolf]

Dreamingwolf, I'm sorry that you think that I believe I am smarter than everyone else. Actually, isn't that what we all think here? :laugh:

Actually, I suspect that Ignatious is smarter than I am by a mile, but that is a different story...

Anyhow, believe me when I tell you that I honestly, truly and sincerely hope we DO find the WMDs, either in Syria or somewhere. I want us to be the good guys, always. I do not want my country going to war on false pretenses. I don't want the world hating and fearing us. Much of my hostility toward the current administration comes from my feeling that they lie to us all the time. I would like to be proved wrong on this one.

are you retracting the quote I quoted of you? I think its pretty obvious that saddam is willing to ship his stuff off into other countries wether they want it or not, and knowing that he will never or at best probably never get it back.

or do you still believe that there is no way saddam would send his tactical assets to a neighbor?

[twa]

They are not active anyways, so it makes absolutely no difference if they are out there or not. It is actually LESS dangerous then a conventional LEGAL weapon.

Funny though how a high ranking general in Saddam's army isn't arrested, detained, and interrogated but allowed to write a book isn't it.

I suppose you never heard of binary weapons?

Keeping the catylist seperate extends the safety and shelf life.

* 2004: May 14 Iraqi insurgency fighters in Iraq detonate a 155 mm shell containing several litres of binary precursors for sarin. The shell is designed to mix the chemicals as it spins during flight. The detonated shell releases only a small amount of sarin gas, either because the explosion failed to mix the binary agents properly or because the chemicals inside the shell had degraded significantly with age. Two United States soldiers are treated for exposure after displaying the early symptoms. [5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

[ZoEd]

zoed

well this guy was the only top level official to ever stand up to saddam hussein and not die. Once he was sent to prison for not carrying out an order to execute US Airmen, an act that saved their lives, and was forced to resign at one point cause he wouldnt join the baath party. Hes a prysbeterian christian and he lived in a saddam iraq, this guy had no shortage of balls and I really dont think this guy had much fear of anything. saddam had an affinity for him cause of his skill with organizing air wings and seemed to let him do what he wanted.

we are talking about General Sada right?

I understand what your saying, but Im just saying that its hard to take without evidence when its announced so belated in association with a book deal thats all.

I agree, I'd like to see more evidence myself. I don't know anything about this guys background. I just read in the article that he was afraid for his life. I see your point also. Since watching the movie Wag The Dog I have problems believing anything our govt tells us, left or right. Not that the movie was anything close to being true, but it makes you wonder just how much crap we're fed by them. You find me a politician who isn't full of :pooh: and I'll show you who I vote for next.

Tell you what though, while everyone is bashing this administration and it's tactics. Try not to forget the supposed bombing of terrorist training camps and a supposed "weapons" facility in one of the -stans on the eve of Clintons impeachment. Coincidence? Funny how with all of this technology we could never get pictures of the bombed out camps because of the weather. It was then swiftly brushed under the rug when the media didn't bite. Politicians suck that's why I usually stick to the stadium. I'm outta here.

[Predicto]

are you retracting the quote I quoted of you? I think its pretty obvious that saddam is willing to ship his stuff off into other countries wether they want it or not, and knowing that he will never or at best probably never get it back.

or do you still believe that there is no way saddam would send his tactical assets to a neighbor?

No, I am not retracting my quote. That a few planes were openly flown to Iran to avoid being bombed on the ground during an active war is not surprising.

That dangerous biological and chemical weapons were shipped secretly to Syria, running the risk that they could be used back against Iraq itself someday, seems less likely. And that Syria would run the risk at this time with all the scrutiny seems the most unlikely of all.

Again, seriously, I hope I am wrong. I have no love for Syria, and I would love for our country to be able to mend its reputation for truthfullness with the rest of the world. Even if it helps George Bush.

[KevinthePRF]

Oh, you mean the UN's wonderful resolution? Oh, okay. Like when Saddam wouldn't allow the inspectors to roam freely, and how he eventually kicked them out of Iraq. That "resolution". Wow, it was filled with answers.

I don't go into exhaustive detail because even this horse's ashes have been beaten to death on this forum.

The point is that the chemical weapons used in the Kurd attack 18 years ago were nonexistent by the time George W declared war on Iraq.

[Prosperity]

You know what guys, I notice a VERY STRANGE parallel here that not many here have. One of the main points of rightwingers on this site, (all of the righties that posted in this thread minus Kilmer) claim that a problem with the left is that they root against America. Now, why are all you right wingers HAPPY that Syria has a stash of WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Could it be that you are happy that your party and leader were correct, despite this outcome being very bad for the US?

Hmmmmm, can't have it both ways

PS

the credibility of this author is questionable so I will wait to judge on the actual article if it is substantiated.

[dreamingwolf]

you do know that syrias bio/chem weapons program is more advanced than iraqs right?

[Prosperity]

you do know that syrias bio/chem weapons program is more advanced than iraqs right?

Really, that doesn't make Iraq sound very threatening.

If that is true maybe it is because Iraq didn't have two ****s of a WMD program after the Gulf War? (like some Leftists have claimed)

Regardless, No I don't know that (true or not), but neither do many others. [including the right wingers or else they would be clamoring for an invasion of Syria] So... your post is irrelevant

[AlexRS]

One of the main points of rightwingers on this site, (all of the righties that posted in this thread minus Kilmer) claim that a problem with the left is that they root against America.

Those crazy lefties, they are all the same and they are all traitors. Not a single thing they say can possibly be true. As we all know, things are either 100% white or 100% black. Gray areas are for losers who want to compromise National Security.

Discussions are for people with weak convictions. Thankfully our president is a man of strong convictions.

conviction

n 1: an unshakable belief in something without need for proof or evidence

Maybe ability to consider evidence is actually important in a President...