The Brainwashing of our players.

[Guest GibbSkins11]

Worst Thread I have Ever Seen:doh::puke:

the only one worse than this was that poll question thread are you proud of the redskins,but this one is right up their,this shizz is dum

[Mania]

hello! hello!! Were you under a rock during our 5 game winning streek where we outscored the rest of the league during this span. BTW, I thought I would tell you that we made the playoffs and won a game against Tampa Bay in the playoffs.

Just incase you missed it, I thought I would tell you.

[MattGeorge85]

Take this moronic thread down, and please no more corny D.H. Lawrence quotes....thanks.

:logo:

[Jumbo]

Take this moronic thread down, and please no more corny D.H. Lawrence quotes....thanks.

:logo:

I have to say it is one of the most overused and moronic quotes in the pantheon of "wish I had that one back" sentiments of the greats and not-so-greats.

[CrypticVillain]

This is some bull, just because we were not #1 in the leauge dose not mean we had an awful offense. We did good we just ran out of gas. I am not going to bash you fro saying your "opion" but come on cus you can not be bashing our players because they are humans , if you played16 weeks in a row wouldn't you be tired at the end.

[Mr. Nostril]

I after all, Hitler always said the bigger the lie the more people will believe it

Actually, the point of the quote I think you're refering to was something like, people will believe a lie, no matter how big, if it's repeated it enough.

There's a big difference. What you said is almost certainly not true, but what I think he said is very possible. It doesn't really matter, since the proper quote is still relevant to the situation.

[PCS]

Let's take care of the players only meeting real quick. Think to yourself now. Did the Redskins during Joe's first tenure trust Joe Gibbs?

*

Okay. Now. Here's this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/book/pages/168.htm

When he did speak, people listened. In 1990, when the Redskins were 6-5 and struggling to make the playoffs, Monk asked Gibbs for permission to call a players-only meeting the night before a home game against Miami. The Redskins had missed the playoffs two straight years and now were watching their season slip away after losses to Dallas and Philadelphia. Monk apparently sensed that the time was right to say something.

Words came slowly and evenly. Monk reminded his teammates that the Redskins were in danger of missing the playoffs a third straight season. He said that they had enough good players but for some reason were losing close games. He said he was re-dedicating himself to football and suggested others might do the same. He said it was time to put up or shut up.

Some of his younger teammates had heard him say barely two words. Now, here he was challenging the entire squad.

"If he was in a real good mood, he might nod to you," wide receiver Gary Clark said. "I thought he hated me the first couple of years I was around, and then I discovered that was just the way Art is. I remember one game he got real carried away. I think he said, `Let's go' about twice. Art is the only player who can walk into a room and get absolute respect from everyone in that room."

Monk took charge of the Redskins that night, helping to pull them together at a time when they were unraveling. The Redskins credit that meeting — and the weekly ones that followed, with Monk talking less — with a lot of the good things that happened the next two seasons.

**************************************

Circumstances somewhat different, but as one poster pointed out, maybe the one this past season was for the same reason as that one. Putting the responsibility on themselves. Now that's an example of buying into what Joe Gibbs is saying. And that's a good thing.

[hogmagnus]

it's just a hypothetical...you didn't notice this at all in some of our players?...our O-line didn't play poorly the last two games???

??????? You don't think that had something to do with missing our Pro Bowl guard, and replacing him with a 42 yr old, do you?? Sheesh. Moron.

[PCS]

??????? You don't think that had something to do with missing our Pro Bowl guard, and replacing him with a 42 yr old, do you?? Sheesh. Moron.

Hey. Did well all the way up to the last word. We try to shy away from that kind of thing here. Hence the rules up top. Attack the opinion, not the poster. Little advice from someone who has been here for awhile.

[desertfox59]

desertfox,

I wouldn't take things so personally for several reasons: (a) this is the Internet, ( you made a post that's at best counterintuitive, and at worst inciteful, and © you're attacking a team that went to the playoffs for the first time in 6 years--that went from 6-10 to 11-7 under Joe Gibbs.

Several people haven't engaged your perspective because they believe it to come from someone who they think is too far afield to acknowledge what they believe is the right perspective. If it suits you, ignore them.

People will attack any position--from the most homerific to the most negative, I'd just let it roll of your back and thicken your skin--you'll have more fun that way.

I don't take it personal....I am having fun here...I agree they will attack any position, and it does roll off my back.

couple of points...

I don't think this thread was an attack on this team....It is a hypothetical, attempting to discuss how media perceptions influence the nature of players and coaches relationships in the sport of football...I have limited knowledge of these matters at the professional level but I do know they exist....I just thought people might want to explore them. I don't think that is incoherent or "counterintuitive" and it certainly wasn't meant to incite anger....debate yes...anger no. So I thank those of you on both sides of this issue who have responded with intelligent posts. I just wish there were more of you.:)

[desertfox59]

I can maybe see something here, but it has nothing to do with not having faith or buying into Gibbs' system.

If I had to guess, I would say its because Gibbs/Bugel/Williams/Blache are some of the most demanding coaches in the NFL. You know Gibbs philosophy in practice, we work our players harder then most teams. These coaches don't play favorites, don't let anything slide, and expect perfection. So maybe that's why some of the players might be hesitent to speak their minds about playing under Gibbs...

Of course I think your point is rediculous. With the salaries these guys are getting paid, they better work their asses off.

Hadn't thought of that....I guess I just wasn't willing to go to the extreame that our players didn't like to work hard. that's one of the reasons that I love these coaches, they don't let anything slide and they expect perfection.....good post.

[kwitt]

..I mean...after all, Hitler always said the bigger the lie the more people will believe it....

:yikes:

[hogmagnus]

Hey. Did well all the way up to the last word. We try to shy away from that kind of thing here. Hence the rules up top. Attack the opinion, not the poster. Little advice from someone who has been here for awhile.

Sorry. I have very little patience for drivel like that.

[desertfox59]

Fox, why do you hate the o-line? You've been bashing them for weeks now. To turn around and blame it on them not believing in Gibbs is ludacris.

If anything their belief in Gibbs and each other is what took them to the playoffs. If there is one thing that Gibbs does well that's manage people. You don't succeed in two different sports by not being able to get people to buy into your beliefs.

I totally missed the players cringing when asked about Gibbs. I in no way shape or form sensed the players thinking Gibbs was anything less than a great coach. Maybe your player sensor is a little off.

I don't hate the O-line....but of all the units, they were the weakest in the last three games...and before that they were spotty at best....Now it is a credit to their ability and coaching that they were able to accomplish the awesome things they did...but that doesn't change the fact that they failed to defeat a (in the Seahawks case) D-line whom they outweighed by an average of 30 pounds.

I agree with you....Gibbs manages people well...I think the Saunders thing was to put the "anti-Gibbs" notion (weather you agree with it existing or not) to bed for good....Gibbs is just a smart man.

my player sense could very well be off...I never pretended to be omniscient

[desertfox59]

there was something wrong with the offense. One of the defensive players of the Raiders said before the game on the radio there is a tell in the Redskins offense. Where ever Santana Moss is lined up is where the play is run. You can not do that all yr and expect to score a lot of points. We only got that three 30 point game streak because the defense was creating short feilds

I also heard that some in the league said that brunnell was tipping the snap count....I read that in one of the threads...can't remember which one though.....don't know if there's any truth to it.

[desertfox59]

Although I do sense that DesertFox59 is actually serious about his perceptions- I am absolutely dumbfounded that one could come to this conclusion.... You' date=' my friend, are the epitome of the "glass is half empty" type personality.....or maybe you are just a conspiracy theorist. But from my perspective I sensed that the team was more "together" and more united in purpose than I have seen them since the early 90's.....

Very, very strange perspective.

The O line? They were banged up! It's football![/quote']

I guess I just don't understand why there is nothing other than a black and white understanding of this....is it not possible that the team is more together and united in purpose ....yet when things go bad this enters some of their minds? I guess I just think that people are more nuanced than what you do.

[jrockster21]

I guess I just don't understand why there is nothing other than a black and white understanding of this....is it not possible that the team is more together and united in purpose ....yet when things go bad this enters some of their minds? I guess I just think that people are more nuanced than what you do.

What bad things happened??? They won 6 straight including a road playoff game!! Yeah, that's terrible news!! :doh: :doh: :doh:

[desertfox59]

DF...I read the whole thread first after passing on it...outside of Thinking Skin you got failry well jumped on...I've done the same with you in the past on another topic, but will support your right to be you all the way...but I'll also join those who reccomend that you learn to accept these reactions more comfortably...

I'll make one more suggestion...usually, when I find a bunch of people reacting to something I've said in a negative manner I find surprising...I don't instantly assume they're all f-ed up and I'm the only sane one...I actually stop and re-evaluate why my message (or my persona, if it's a more general reaction and consistent over time) might have drawn such reactions...and see if I can learn something about myself and my thinking instead of just refuting the experience or clinging to one or two supporters as validation. It's been a useful message-board practice for many folks, just FWIW.

Jumbo....I'll make one suggestion to you...next time you come across one of my threads...go ahead and pass on it. Believe me...you won't be missed.

[desertfox59]

"Coming from the players".

Did you speak to them? Did you visit with them long enough to get this "vibe"?

Just how exactly did you come up with this?

Blondie

I've never talked to the players.... the best example I can give you is not very specific...

..I was watching one of CP's interviews and the whole Gibbs question was asked....CP kinda looked away and avoided the question...I don't know which one it was...

...I think Brunell has also been asked similar things about Gibbs and his body language suggest possibly discomfort....

.....I don't know the reason's or even if this is true....let me know what Rock thinks.

[desertfox59]

Let's take care of the players only meeting real quick. Think to yourself now. Did the Redskins during Joe's first tenure trust Joe Gibbs?

*

Okay. Now. Here's this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/book/pages/168.htm

When he did speak, people listened. In 1990, when the Redskins were 6-5 and struggling to make the playoffs, Monk asked Gibbs for permission to call a players-only meeting the night before a home game against Miami. The Redskins had missed the playoffs two straight years and now were watching their season slip away after losses to Dallas and Philadelphia. Monk apparently sensed that the time was right to say something.

Words came slowly and evenly. Monk reminded his teammates that the Redskins were in danger of missing the playoffs a third straight season. He said that they had enough good players but for some reason were losing close games. He said he was re-dedicating himself to football and suggested others might do the same. He said it was time to put up or shut up.

Some of his younger teammates had heard him say barely two words. Now, here he was challenging the entire squad.

"If he was in a real good mood, he might nod to you," wide receiver Gary Clark said. "I thought he hated me the first couple of years I was around, and then I discovered that was just the way Art is. I remember one game he got real carried away. I think he said, `Let's go' about twice. Art is the only player who can walk into a room and get absolute respect from everyone in that room."

Monk took charge of the Redskins that night, helping to pull them together at a time when they were unraveling. The Redskins credit that meeting — and the weekly ones that followed, with Monk talking less — with a lot of the good things that happened the next two seasons.

**************************************

Circumstances somewhat different, but as one poster pointed out, maybe the one this past season was for the same reason as that one. Putting the responsibility on themselves. Now that's an example of buying into what Joe Gibbs is saying. And that's a good thing.

I sure hope they are buying into it....they should....

...awesome about Art Monk, great read.....that man should be in the HOF....no doubt.

[PCS]

Jumbo....I'll make one suggestion to you...next time you come across one of my threads...go ahead and pass on it. Believe me...you won't be missed.

Oh yeah he will. I know I would

Now let's go further with this sense of players. My feeling from about the first game through the season was that the players did in fact believe in the coach. When I have time, I'll dredge up some of the quotes and maybe a thread or 2. Several times this season many here commented on how the players seemed to be if, not obviously, were believing in Joe Gibbs and his message of being a true Redskin. A team player. Doing what whatever was asked of them by the coaches in order to help the team. Patten said something like this. So did Lavar. Thomas and Jansen all but preached it. Even Portis said things like this.

That said, actions speak louder than words. In the games the team lost, barring the Giants game, the team never quit. Never let up. They were always in the game right up until the end. A team that believes in the coach and then themselves does this. A team that needs to win 5 in a row does so because of the leadership of the coach and that's because they believe in that coach. When the offense played poorly midway through the season and the defense was responsible for keeping them in those games, if not winning them, the team did not fracture. It stayed as a unit. Again, it starts with the coach.

[desertfox59]

What bad things happened??? They won 6 straight including a road playoff game!! Yeah, that's terrible news!! :doh: :doh: :doh:

you are not even worth my time.

[PCS]

you are not even worth my time.

Then why post a response to it? :slap: Take your own advice. If you don't like it, don't respond to it. And for the record books, you've responded to worse in this thread alone.

[desertfox59]

Oh yeah he will. I know I would

Now let's go further with this sense of players. My feeling from about the first game through the season was that the players did in fact believe in the coach. When I have time, I'll dredge up some of the quotes and maybe a thread or 2. Several times this season many here commented on how the players seemed to be if, not obviously, were believing in Joe Gibbs and his message of being a true Redskin. A team player. Doing what whatever was asked of them by the coaches in order to help the team. Patten said something like this. So did Lavar. Thomas and Jansen all but preached it. Even Portis said things like this.

That said, actions speak louder than words. In the games the team lost, barring the Giants game, the team never quit. Never let up. They were always in the game right up until the end. A team that believes in the coach and then themselves does this. A team that needs to win 5 in a row does so because of the leadership of the coach and that's because they believe in that coach. When the offense played poorly midway through the season and the defense was responsible for keeping them in those games, if not winning them, the team did not fracture. It stayed as a unit. Again, it starts with the coach.

This is a very good post....you've almost changed my mind.....

I agree with every thing you said...but I'd like you to clarify a few things for me...only if you want to of course.

1) is it not possible for everything you said to be true and my original post to also be true both to varing degrees?

2) You are talking about the overall team....and I agree with that assessment...I did say some players not all....I wasn't talking about the overall team.

3) Much of what we hear from a team and a coaching staff is based around the idea of keeping your guard up....example: Brunell is not really bothered by his knee, or Portis's shoulder is just fing....ect. doesn't this extend to players opinions also?

[jrockster21]

you are not even worth my time.

Why, because I've blasted enormous holes in your silly little theory???

Great debate technique...whenever your premise is challenged or debunked, simply ignore it and keep on truckin'.

All in favor of renaming desertfox to AJ_Skins2 or OldTownFan2, say Aye!! :doh: