Reason to be Hopeful (long).

[s0crates]

I like the post, but the paragraph I quoted could have been written in most of the last 10 years.

Have we really been competitive (mostly losing close games) for the past 10 years?

I seem to remember being blown out a lot in the past 10 years - not competitve play. But don't take my word for it. Look for yourself. Here are all the Redskins' blowout losses over the last 10 years:

2005:

Giants defeat skins 36-0

2004:

Eagles defeat skins 28-6

2003:

Bucs defeat skins 35-13

Bills defeat skins 24-7

Cowboys defeat skins 27-0

Eagles defeat skins 31-7

2002:

Eagles defeat skins 34-21

Jaguars defeat skins 26-7

Packers defeat skins 30-9

Saints defeat skins 43-27

Eagles defeat skins 37-7

2001:

Eagles defeat skins 20-6

Giants defeat skins 23-9

Chiefs defeat skins 45-13

Packers defeat skins 37-0

Charger defeat skins 30-3

2000:

Steelers defeat skins 24-3

Cowboys defeat skins 32-13

1999:

Lions defeat skins 33-17

Bills defeat skins 34-17

Cowboys defeat skins 38-20

1998:

Cowboys defeat skins 23-7

Vikings defeat skins 41-7

Cowboys defeat skins 31-10

Broncos defeat skins 38-16

49ers defeat skins 45-10

1997:

Giants defeat skins 30-10

Oilers defeat skins 28-14

Eagles defeat skins 24-10

1996:

Bills defeat skins 38-13

Cowboys defeat skins 21-10

Bucs defeat skins 24-10

1995:

Chiefs defeat skins 24-3

Raiders defeat skins 20-8

It was a brutal 10 year stretch in which we were frequently not even competitive. The only real exceptions are 1999-2000. At the time, I was opposed to firinng Turner. Overall, the Redskins were an embarassment in Gibbs abscence. Now they are a fighter. They still have trouble finishing, but they are in every game. This is clearly an improvement.

Gibbs has only been blown out twice since his return. Other than that, we've been in every game. That is, quite frankly, a big improvement. That's my whole point.

[#1SkinsFan]

this boys fan is fulll of ignorance, is illogical, and plain out stupid. 2-14? Is that why we started ouff 3-0 and you didnt. Is that why our reciever is #3 in the bfl in recieving yards, and yours isnt? Is that why our RB has over 950 yds, when yours dont even have 1000 combined? Get outta here with your ignorant BS. You dont have any sense at all and you are basically sticking up for your lucky team who didnt even us. If you guys are so good, then why did you lose to: in your words " a 2-14 team." Yea answer that. And it wasnt luck so dont give me that BS either. When you can actually talk about football in an intelligent way, w/o using only what you think b/c you are a homer, or anything of that sort, then come back here. Because by looking at who we played, and who you played, even though we are 5-6 andyou are 7-4, we have done so much more than you guys this season. If you had our schedule, then your record whould be 3-8 or 4-7 hands down. If we had yours, hell we might have only lost 2 games. So please use some logic before you sa we are as bad as the texans, when we beat three teams you havent and wont beat ( seahawks, bears, and us)

[tvo14]

Great post. The intangibles are things that has kept us from having a winning record. The turnover battle and injuries to key players. I know this team will turn it around, its just a matter of time. December is Joe Gibbs best record, so lets see what he can do.

[s0crates]

Great post. The intangibles are things that has kept us from having a winning record. The turnover battle and injuries to key players. I know this team will turn it around, its just a matter of time. December is Joe Gibbs best record, so lets see what he can do.

Yep, he's like 34-15 in December. He was even good last December.

[Cskin]

Soc...good post. It's just the teams outlook is in the eye of the beholder. I think some here got to delerious with the 3-0 start, including the Hail Mary game in Dallas, and felt this was OUR YEAR.

Instead, we walked into a buzz saw in the G-men and then watched three straight slip through our hands. Sure...we beat the 49ers... we were supposed to. Beating the Eagles was great... a big lift... especially since McNabb has made a living bringing his team back against us and this time getting the door slammed in his face personally with the INT.

Where we stand now is simply anyone's guess. Three division games and two games a Gibbs team should beat, a Rams team plagued with injuries and a Cardinal team still trying to find an identity and a rhythm. Should we win the next two.... than we'll see what kind of metal we have by winning three straight division games to snatch the division crown from others who currently hold it.

I'd say in three weeks we should have a good idea which way we're moving.

[Passizle]

I guess you guys see the redskins team in a different light. You always mention how you have played very good and lost close games.

The fact is that good teams have been playing down to you level. Your 3-0 start was actually do to the team overachieving and playing better than they are. The skins first three wins were due to good teams playing bad and a few miracles mixed in.

The redkins are essentially a 2-14 team that got pretty lucky in the beginning of the season. Nothing more, nothing less.

1) Rookie QB throwing INT in endzone, down by 2 points in field goal range

2) Two last minute Hail Marys against a team that dominated them and failed to effectively run the clock out in a low scoring blow out.

3) Missed field goal hitting the upright. (Inches)

Take those three wins and realize the skins are really not much better than the Texans this season, just with a worse draft pick next april.

3)

Is this guy for real? I, like many other Skins fans, am feeling down and saying the season is over. (maybe) But to think you compare us to the likes of the Texans and saying we should have a 2 and 14 season? That is just a plain insult and un-called for. Do you really think it is mere fate that just about every team we played this year is in the running for the SB? All those first place teams scored their lowest points and worst performances of the season against us. Coincidance?(spelling) I think not! We alway out perform our competitors (save the Giants game) and ALL of the games we play are close... real close. If our offense would be a little more aggressive and score more points for us our D could rest and we would have lots and lots of checks in the "win" column and this reply would be un-necessary. BTW... can you tell me the last team to hold LT to 37 yards rushing before halftime?... I did not think so, now sit down and shut-up!!!

The Redskins could easily be in first place in thier division right now. Now I know L's are L's and W's are W's in the standings but I have a lot of pride in the performance and improvment the Skins have acheived. God Bless'em!!!

We will see who has the last laugh when we hand Dallas their butts back to them after our next meeting.

Can anyone duct-tape this dude?

SKINS FOREVER!!!

PS I am predicting we will win our division. With Dallas and Giants falling apart at the seams this is looking more and more in our favor. Send your prayers to the football gods. I think its time to let loose the hounds of hell and they are... THE REDSKINS!!!

[skins fan1010]

Apart from the solid analysis, this was very well written. Great job.

I too am an optimist. I think they match up well against their remaining five opponents and, despite improbability, I still think they can run the table. If they do, they will win the division.

[Passizle]

How can I bump this thread? I think it needs some exposure!!!

[s0crates]

How can I bump this thread? I think it needs some exposure!!!

You just did , Thanks!

[MontanaSkins]

One thing I don't understand about the questionable comments by the Cowboys fan, is that if we as Redskins fans can't find even the smallest thing to hold on to from our first 11 games to give us hope in the last 5 we should not even be fans. So mind your own business CowboyBlog and go back to your own board. I would not expect any less hope from you about your own team over there.

:dallasuck

[ozskin]

Ok...so we've just happened to catch every single team playing down to our level save for the Giants? You didn't dominate us, the stats were actually pretty even, and the only touchdown you scored was off of a flea flicker. You don't consider that lucky? We also missed a field goal against Seattle, but you ignore that. And the interception with the Bears? Well, then the Cowboys sure were lucky to beat both San Diego and the Eagles. Please stick to your team, since you have no real objective ability to analyze ours.

Nothin much more to say than........well said.:notworthy

[Epistopheles]

It's good to see more people being optimistic in the face of such disastrous games. It would be easy for the team and its fans to pack it in after what's happened, and I'm amazed at the resilience and positivity of people I'm reading here.

Now, we've seen this kind of heart from the team in the past, so let's just hope they've still got some left to make a run at the postseason. They could take all that postgame anger and dish it out onto their last 5 opponents.

[B.A.M.F.]

Great post sOc,

I've been telling everyone how much better the skins are this year, and am now having to defend myself because of their record. But I do think they have shown steady improvement, I'm still rooting for this year, but next year is when my expectations will be highest. Playoff will be expected at the very least.

P.S. ignore cowboyblog, (he predicted that the boys would whip us week 2 by close to 30 pts, and when we told him why we thought we could win he said we weren't being "realistic". Ignore him I say, maybe he will go away.)

[CowboyBlog]

Is this guy for real? I, like many other Skins fans, am feeling down and saying the season is over. (maybe) But to think you compare us to the likes of the Texans and saying we should have a 2 and 14 season? That is just a plain insult and un-called for. Do you really think it is mere fate that just about every team we played this year is in the running for the SB? All those first place teams scored their lowest points and worst performances of the season against us. Coincidance?(spelling) I think not! We alway out perform our competitors (save the Giants game) and ALL of the games we play are close... real close. If our offense would be a little more aggressive and score more points for us our D could rest and we would have lots and lots of checks in the "win" column and this reply would be un-necessary. BTW... can you tell me the last team to hold LT to 37 yards rushing before halftime?... I did not think so, now sit down and shut-up!!!

The Redskins could easily be in first place in thier division right now. Now I know L's are L's and W's are W's in the standings but I have a lot of pride in the performance and improvment the Skins have acheived. God Bless'em!!!

We will see who has the last laugh when we hand Dallas their butts back to them after our next meeting.

Can anyone duct-tape this dude?

SKINS FOREVER!!!

PS I am predicting we will win our division. With Dallas and Giants falling apart at the seams this is looking more and more in our favor. Send your prayers to the football gods. I think its time to let loose the hounds of hell and they are... THE REDSKINS!!!

Thats exactly the point. Its football, dont consider it an insult. As a fan, you have nothing to do with the talent of the players and coaches, dont take it personal. Its just that you guys and the rest of the league just see your team different. I'm not a redskins fan, so its not my job to single out positive ifs and ifs and ifs to make the team look good.

The fact is that three of the Redskins wins were mirarcle like wins against teams that are clearly better than them. Other teams are playing down, as in your LT example.

At the beginning of the season, we knew your offense was below average, but we had some faith in your defense. We were wrong about the defense, but the offense turned out average or better in some weeks.

To predict a team with a loosing record will pull out the division because teams with winning records will fold is just not responsible at this point in the season.

[mrs_pink]

I guess you guys see the redskins team in a different light. You always mention how you have played very good and lost close games.

The fact is that good teams have been playing down to you level. Your 3-0 start was actually do to the team overachieving and playing better than they are. The skins first three wins were due to good teams playing bad and a few miracles mixed in.

The redkins are essentially a 2-14 team that got pretty lucky in the beginning of the season. Nothing more, nothing less.

1) Rookie QB throwing INT in endzone, down by 2 points in field goal range

2) Two last minute Hail Marys against a team that dominated them and failed to effectively run the clock out in a low scoring blow out.

3) Missed field goal hitting the upright. (Inches)

Take those three wins and realize the skins are really not much better than the Texans this season, just with a worse draft pick next april.

3)

Well, well, well, another idiotic Cowpuke fan who has nothing better to do than obsess about the Skins and provide their ignorant insight on OUR site.:laugh:

In reference to the original post, great points!

[BigRay]

I guess you guys see the redskins team in a different light. You always mention how you have played very good and lost close games.

The fact is that good teams have been playing down to you level. Your 3-0 start was actually do to the team overachieving and playing better than they are. The skins first three wins were due to good teams playing bad and a few miracles mixed in.

The redkins are essentially a 2-14 team that got pretty lucky in the beginning of the season. Nothing more, nothing less.

1) Rookie QB throwing INT in endzone, down by 2 points in field goal range

2) Two last minute Hail Marys against a team that dominated them and failed to effectively run the clock out in a low scoring blow out.

3) Missed field goal hitting the upright. (Inches)

Take those three wins and realize the skins are really not much better than the Texans this season, just with a worse draft pick next april.

:rolleyes: Yes, like the Cowboys been impressive this year in their victories. If you want to know the truth the Cowboys has won their games pretty much like the Redskins so if that makes them 2-14 what does that make the Cowboys ?

Also, I recall a game against the Eagles on Monday night football that look a lot like the mnf game back in wk 2 and while we at it did your turkey day loss look a lot like the Redskins loss to Chargers both teams let running backs hit long runs on them the difference is we know what LT is capable of but Ron Dayne ? your comments has nothing to stand on..

[Redsk58417]

Mr. Cowboy said that the Skins had "The 3rd best defense in the NFC East." Well, well, well....Can you explain why the Cowboys made the 49ers look like the '99 Rams? Or WR Brandon Lloydd look like Jerry Rice? After all, the Dallas defense is better right? Talk about lucky wins! Did Dallas "Play down to their opponent" like you say the Skins opponents do? lol.

[red zone]

Nice post sOcrates. The most cogent points of the post are direction, patience and continuity. All of which are Gibbs hallmarks.

[Underwater Ally]

We are definitley better off with Gibbs & co. coaching. We are in a better place now than we have been in a long time. But that doesn't mean Gibbs hasn't made costly mistakes that have set the team back from where we could be.

While he's brought a loyalty, dedication, and a sense of team back to the Skins, he's also made some costly personnel moves and failed to address some key positions (DE, WR) while focusing too intently on others (QB, drafting 2 fullbacks). The way forward needs to include being smarter in free agency, not gambling by trading away important draft picks, and drafting better in the mid to late rounds.

We could be contending now and be in a good position for the future. Insead we are struggling now, and with major holes in several areas and no 1st rounder and limited cap options, it seems like we won't be contending until 2007.

[Henry]

Ah, I see our old freind CowboyBlog finally mustered up the strength to post again since before the Redskins/Cowboys game. I hope that two and a half month break was restful.

Thats exactly the point. Its football, dont consider it an insult. As a fan, you have nothing to do with the talent of the players and coaches, dont take it personal. Its just that you guys and the rest of the league just see your team different. I'm not a redskins fan, so its not my job to single out positive ifs and ifs and ifs to make the team look good.

Apparently as a Cowboy fan you make it your job to single out the negative ifs and ifs and ifs to make the team look bad.

The fact is that three of the Redskins wins were mirarcle like wins against teams that are clearly better than them.

For example.

Calling the Redskins a 2-14 team is as ridiculous, if not moreso, than expecting a 5 game winning streak. If you want peope to actually value your opinions, you've got to do better than that.

And dissapearing for 9 weeks following your team's defeat at the hands of the Redskins doesn't help either.

[Peregrine]

Ok, so apparently its a good performance to have every opportunity to beat a team, and still totaly blow it, at home. 3 weeks in a row.

This is the redskins not the houston texans. Improving doesnt do us jack. We have made the playoffs once in 15 years, we are so far past "improving"(I dont see how winning one more game than last year is improving). How about we improve for another 5 years? Go texans. Correct me if im wrong, but a football games is 4 quarters. Do you think they just throw that extra quarter in just for kicks, like it means nothing? Its the most important quarter in the entire game. So enough with the "We outplayed them for 3 quarters".

Dude, it sucks to be right.

[B.A.M.F.]

Improving doesnt do us jack.

Believe it or not improvement takes time. The whole reason we have sucked for awhile now is because we kept looking for the "quick fix" via free agency/headcoaching change etc. Gibbs is building a competitive team more or less from scratch, and it will take some time. Improving is the only way to get better...

Give Gibbs one more year, if we aren't in the playoffs next year (I'M still rooting for this year...) and a contender, then go ahead and call for Gibbs' head. Me, I will wait and enjoy the "improving".

[Switchgear]

2) Two last minute Hail Marys against a team that dominated them and failed to effectively run the clock out in a low scoring blow out.

Since I haven't seen a comment about this... how does one have a low scoring blowout? Oh, and learn the difference between a Hail Mary and a bomb. You have two prime examples from that game. But, as with every other difficult question directed his/her way in this thread, I don't expect a response about this from our deluded friend.

[Henry]

Since I haven't seen a comment about this... how does one have a low scoring blowout? Oh, and learn the difference between a Hail Mary and a bomb. You have two prime examples from that game. But, as with every other difficult question directed his/her way in this thread, I don't expect a response about this from our deluded friend.

Indeed. All season long I've been witnessing Cowboy fans attempting to re-write history when discussing that game.

First of all, the Cowboys did not 'dominate' the Redskins for 55 minutes, or whatever. If memory serves, the score at halftime was 3-0. That isn't domination by any strech of the imagination. They played slightly better for 55 minutes and horribly worse for 5. If that counted as a win in this league, the Redskins would be 8-3 right now.

A ten play, 76 yard drive is not a Hail Mary.

A TD pass with 2:35 left is not a Hail Mary.

With the score 14-13, the Cowboys had the ball first and ten at the Redskin 48 with 2:28 left. Their inability to move the ball more than six yards is not the result of a Hail Mary.

Fact is, then Redskins went into Dallas on Monday night, weathered the Cowboy's emotional high of having their ex-players inducted into their ring of honor, and hung around long enough to drive a stake into their heart and come away with a win. There was nothing flukey about it. Cowboy fans would do well to simply concede that game and get over it already.

[s0crates]

Ok, so apparently its a good performance to have every opportunity to beat a team, and still totaly blow it, at home. 3 weeks in a row.

This is the redskins not the houston texans. Improving doesnt do us jack. We have made the playoffs once in 15 years, we are so far past "improving"(I dont see how winning one more game than last year is improving). How about we improve for another 5 years? Go texans. Correct me if im wrong, but a football games is 4 quarters. Do you think they just throw that extra quarter in just for kicks, like it means nothing? Its the most important quarter in the entire game. So enough with the "We outplayed them for 3 quarters".

Dude, it sucks to be right.

Don't you remember having opponenets blow us out every other week during the Spurrier years? If not, see my previous post in this thread as a reminder.

The fact is we are improving. First you have to develop competitiveness (which we have). Then, you have to learn to win (which we haven't, but will). Its a process. Have a little patience. The franchise's impatience has been its downfall.

Oh, and we did play all 4 quarters in some games this season. That Dallas game comes immediatley to mind.